noisy engine!

[davin]

Hi guys, I've had a search and and cant find anything that matches the noise my Aurion makes when it starts up! This is intermittent but more harsh when its cold or when the engine has rested but still warm. I get around 1-2 seconds of rattling on start up that is as loud rubbing a metal bar along a corrugated fence. It is so loud people in the car park look over!

just a bit worried as they could not demonstrate the problem at the service done last week (typical hey)

[DJKOR]

When was the last time you did an oil and filter change? The knocking sound you get is related to the VVT-i controller as discussed in the following. An oil and filter change reduces it from occurring, but it is not technically a fix. Fixing it would be something that Toyota would have to do and good luck if you want to endeavour down the warranty path with that one.

Rattle in start up

And also here:

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22416&view=findpost&p=405069

Okay i noticed on a cold start sometimes their was a knocking/rattle noise heard from the engine compartment lasting maximum 1 second,

After diagnosing found it was the VVTI Intake controllers failing.

So spent 12hrs removing engine and changing the gear over.

how much detail did you want buddy?

I had my suspicion that it was caused by the VVT-i controller. I just thought it was something to do with not having much oil in there during a cold start and the internal mechanism knocking around because of no oil pressure to keep things 'floating'.

My old Aurion used to do this but only when it was getting very close to 15,000km without an oil change. Once the oil was changed, the knocking never came back until it reached close to 15,000km again. I just figured it was nothing bad and explainable since it was quite a length of time without a change in oil.

My TRD is now starting to do the same thing. Started happening as the weather got really cold. It has been 10,000km since the last oil change. I think this is indicating to me that it's oil change time. Funnily enough, this is about the same point where Dave also got the occurance:

Yeah mine has come back. It doesnt do it until Ive done at least 10k since the last service and it is only now and then.

So are you able to explain what exactly fails more specifically?

Edit: Is it the lock pin that fails? I'm just wondering if I was thinking along the right lines when I made the following post last year?

I dont think it is piston slap, more like a timing chain rattle or maybe something in the vvti mechanism.

That's what I'm thinking. It seems to be coming from the upper part of the block. It's similar to the sound of that intake control valve closing, but more metallic. It just has me stumped.

Maybe it really is the VVT-i mechanism. When you see a video animation of it working, you can kind of picture how it can generate a knock/rattle sound if it doesn't have appropriate oil pressure in it.

The mechanism is like this for those that don't know:

Having a quick look at the service manual, maybe it ties in with the so called 'lock pin':

When the engine stops, the intake side VVT-i controller is locked on the most retarded angle side by the lock pin, and the exhaust side controller is locked on the most advanced angle side. This ensures excellent engine startability.

The oil pressure sent from the advance or retard side path at the intake and exhaust camshaft causes rotation in the VVT-i controller vane circumferential direction to vary the intake valve timing continuously.

An advanced angle assist spring is provided on the exhaust side VVT-i controller. This helps to apply torque in the advanced angle direction so that the vane lock pin securely engages with the housing when the engine stops.

When hydraulic pressure is not applied to the VVT-i controller immediately after the engine has been started, the lock pin locks the movement of the VVT-i controller to prevent a knocking noise.

[davin]

Cheers for the quick reply! 45K service done 2 days ago! Rattle happened when I went out the front to leave after the service can you believe it. Only started happening about 6 weeks ago! car is out of warranty! hmmmm

[DJKOR]

Cheers for the quick reply! 45K service done 2 days ago! Rattle happened when I went out the front to leave after the service can you believe it. Only started happening about 6 weeks ago! car is out of warranty! hmmmm

Well if it is that 'marbles in a can' sound that I am referring to (it's loud and can make people look at you like your car is broken), and your oil and filter was changed only recently... then you may well have a truly faulty VVT-i controller that is more serious than the usual cases. If it's out of warranty blah blah, then I don't imagine it being a cheap exercise.

[davin]

Thanks for the warm fuzzy feeling that just went over me! haha Spose i will speak to the dealership and see what they think! Ill keep you all posted!

[AUSTSE]

Thanks for the warm fuzzy feeling that just went over me! haha Spose i will speak to the dealership and see what they think! Ill keep you all posted!

Good luck with noise resolution.

Slightly OT, but thought this pic (seen on Ebay) of 2GRFE engine may be of interest; good view of the VVT oil delivery pipe mentioned in the forum some months ago.

[boxerboy]

I have a 2008 Prodigy.

It's just had it's last service under the extended warranty period (60K ks).

At the 45K service it was noted by me that the start up rattle was loud, more so than not, but not always. It even did it when I started the car after collecting it from the service.

Anyhow, today it still does it, more so, and louder. I mentioned it again at this last service.

What are the chances d'ya think of getting it sorted under warranty?

Edited May 18, 2012 by boxerboy

[Stowers]

The noise u are talking about is vvti controllers. Big job but can be done in one day if mechanic is fast. U have to drop engine with subframe take cams out and replace 2 vvti controllers. Go to your dealer they might be able to cover it under warranty if your warranty isn't more then a year expired because its a common fault on alot of 2gr-fe engines.

[Stowers]

Also If is a alot out of warranty they might do 50/50 labour and parts

[boxerboy]

Thanks.I've been aware of the origin of the noise, and they've told me the extent of the work.

It's still under warranty. The car was serviced yesterday and I told them the issue again. It was first mentioned 15000ks ago. Warranty was mentioned.."we'll need to talk to Toyota".

Edited May 18, 2012 by boxerboy

[TRD69]

I too have this rattle during engine startup it happens more frequent after the car has already warmed up. I turn it off and leave for about an hour and start it up again and it rattles.