Aurion Traction Control Switch

[DJKOR]

Don't you mean speed? The rev counter should be fine I would have thought.

Yeah mate. Speed. I was working till 4am this morning and was woken again at 7am. It was a big couple of days.

On top of that, I think it would potentially throw a code more likely because even with disabling traction control through the pedal combo, running it on the dyno still gives a check engine light. It clears after a couple of k's though.

[fuel miser]

It sounds like the IC cannot provide enough current to drive the transistor on. Look at the spec sheet.

Having the base at the right voltage to have the transistor turn on is only half of the requirement it also requires the correct base current flowing as well. Look at the spec sheet.

Put a "buffer" in between the IC and the relay e.g. opto-coupler, use a darlington transistor, from the IC output drive a small signal transistor which in turn drives a power transistor to power the relay. Look at the spec sheet.

Remember to use a diode across the relay to avoid back emf destroying anything.

IC's even a 555 would only supply 200mA (from memory) at best without an additional load handling transistor, with a CMOS IC the available current would probably be much less(from memory).

A relay even a small one would draw more than 100mA. Look at the spec sheet

As you load the IC output up the voltage will drop and there is a maximum safe current the IC can supply constantly without permanent damage.

[Steven]

It sounds like the IC cannot provide enough current to drive the transistor on. Look at the spec sheet.

Having the base at the right voltage to have the transistor turn on is only half of the requirement it also requires the correct base current flowing as well. Look at the spec sheet.

Put a "buffer" in between the IC and the relay e.g. opto-coupler, use a darlington transistor, from the IC output drive a small signal transistor which in turn drives a power transistor to power the relay. Look at the spec sheet.

Remember to use a diode across the relay to avoid back emf destroying anything.

IC's even a 555 would only supply 200mA (from memory) at best without an additional load handling transistor, with a CMOS IC the available current would probably be much less(from memory).

A relay even a small one would draw more than 100mA. Look at the spec sheet

As you load the IC output up the voltage will drop and there is a maximum safe current the IC can supply constantly without permanent damage.

My 6v relay uses about 107mA

The Transistor (2N3904) spec sheet seems to indicate it is capable enough to drive that relay once properly saturated.

The IC at 12v VDD produces around 3-7mA output current.

The transistor, to drive a 107mA load needs about 10mA from the IC. I can see here that I'm falling short and the transistor may not be saturating properly. I did previously try a darlington pair of 2N3904 transistors to get around this but actually found the output did funny things.

Looking closely at the transistor data sheet suggests I may have actually had the transistor connected with the collector and emitter the wrong way around. How it's still been acting properly to now has got me confused as normally this would fry the transistor I would have thought. Either way I shall try it the other way around in the morning with a fresh 2N3904 and see what I get. However none of this explains, in direct contradiction to the 4013IC datasheet why I'm getting an output of a few volts in the low state directly from the chip. If I can get the output (under load) to remain high around 11v and low around 2-3v then simply changing to a 12v relay should solve my issues but again I'll see come morning.

Otherwise I'll need to use the voltage comparator to remove this low state output completely (which might be a good idea to include anyway)

[retro]

HI guys,

awesome work on this.. wow..

does anyone know the "type" of connector that is used to go into the traction control ECU?? If there is enough interest and of course if the boys give their approval of guys that invented in, I may be able to get a friend to do a design and production run of a certain amount of boards so no wire cutting needs to be done?? My TRD has a few years of warranty left so I do not want to cut into the harness etc...

Might be able to get some smarts programmed into it from a small type of PLC type controller that has already been made without too much hassle.. thats if we can get the male / female type connector sourced being the biggest issue so it plugs in series before the computers ECU.

[Steven]

Right I've rebuild my switching circuit entirely and finally sourced my problem.

By itself, the switching IC provides 11v high state, 0v low state. The problem comes when I connect the transistor to the IC's output.

In a nutshell, the transistor's outputs are reversed against what the data sheets said (collector is emitter and vice versa). Also found the voltage regulator was leaking some current back into the ground - removing it altogether has fixed this and I'm not concerned for the circuits safety as it was designed for automotive use. Bit peeved but at least now the circuit is working 100% whether the car is on or off and as a bonus I have a much neater PCB!

[DJKOR]

does anyone know the "type" of connector that is used to go into the traction control ECU?? If there is enough interest and of course if the boys give their approval of guys that invented in, I may be able to get a friend to do a design and production run of a certain amount of boards so no wire cutting needs to be done?? My TRD has a few years of warranty left so I do not want to cut into the harness etc...

Might be able to get some smarts programmed into it from a small type of PLC type controller that has already been made without too much hassle.. thats if we can get the male / female type connector sourced being the biggest issue so it plugs in series before the computers ECU.

I've already been looking into this idea. I have a solution available but the one thing holding it back is the male connector. That said, even the female side is difficult to get your hands on. Being a Bosch OEM product, the only real way you can get these connectors is directly from the people that make it. No doubt there is some factory there in China responsible for producing them, but I will tell you now, it's not quite the easiest thing to find a specific factory.

[retro]

I've already been looking into this idea. I have a solution available but the one thing holding it back is the male connector. That said, even the female side is difficult to get your hands on. Being a Bosch OEM product, the only real way you can get these connectors is directly from the people that make it. No doubt there is some factory there in China responsible for producing them, but I will tell you now, it's not quite the easiest thing to find a specific factory.

understand you pain there... i havent modded any cars for years.. and those that i did had the easy option of piggy back ECU's if not complete plug in units that you could do anything with...

Been modding jetski's for the last 4 - 5 years and have had similar issues... I use this supplier for various types of OEM connectors etc for the ski's that i have modded and worked on..

Whilst China may be the place they are made, I might be able to source them from the USA.. so they're bosch units... just wish we had the actual name... Most of the ski's i have worked on are SIemens ECU's and they're just as big a pain.. and a even smaller market!!! i wonder whether any of the wreckers have these in their yard yet??

still awesome work djkor.. i really like the idea of the off/on idea

this isnt the right type.. but worth a look

[Steven]

I've gotten onto the local importer of those Chinese GPS units to see whether or not he can source these plugs.

As far as I see, the only specialist parts needed to turn this into a kit is the traction control plug and a direct fit switch for the dash (to keep things looking OEM). Everything else (wiring, pcb etc) wouldn't be too hard to arrange.

[DJKOR]

Since there is the obvious safety concern with the ABS being disabled as part of the circuit shown in the first post, an additional relay has been added in to address this. Basically what this results in is the deactivation of the circuit (in turn the re-enabling of Traction Control and ABS) whenever the brake pedal is applied. When you take your foot off the brake, the TC override is re-enabled. The diagram can be seen in the first post as well.

Now this would not be what I call a "full solution". This is basically because of the issues that can arise from potential wear and tear on the relays, switching speed, etc. Ideally, I would have preferred to have the additional relay utilise the NO contacts to cut the power to the speed sensor relays as this would make the design more fail-safe in the event of a power cut, however to make it easier to follow the design shown is the one I have chosen. It should be noted though that the intention of this circuit is not for use on road. Should you choose to use it on-road, that is at your own discretion. I understand I have made comments in regards to an on-road scenario, but by no means am I saying this is how YOU should treat it.

The addition of this extra relay connected to the stop light is for a situation where you should choose to use it on road or you have left it on when you have previously used it. As a result, the circuit will now behave more like a car that comes with an actual Traction Control switch does.

[Foss]

Lets say the biggest car making in the world are complete idiots.

I buy car from them with just about every safety or drivers aid available and I think I know better. What will I do?

I'll start disabling them because they are only needed when I am being lazy, cause I am a better driver that anyone else. One problem!!

The person in the other car who isn't as good as I think I am, losses control and is all over the road coming towards me. What will I do now?

I know in a split second I will (1) turn them back on, (2) loss control due to turning the wheel sharply, (3) brake hard not remembering the ABS doesn't work, (4) have no idea.

Disabling the options you paid for, for any reason makes as much sense as disabling the airbags cause you have been driving for 40 years and never had an accident.

I wouldn't buy the mod.

Here's another reason what are you going to tell your insurance company, police, judge, because if they find out and you have had an accident and are responsible and you hurt or kill someone you are history.

If you do this mod, do me a favor turn your hazard light on whilst you are driving around. This way I will know I may need to be more cautious around you.

If you spin the wheel/s whilst entering a roundabout in the wet, you never had enough time or room to complete it safely. Traction control is designed for e.g aquaplaning whilst driving at normal speeds not for sprint starts.

Quoted from Fuel Miser in the kit poll topic, the fragment I've bolded got me thinking, but I felt this thread more appropriate to raise such a discussion.

What would be the insurance implications of having this fitted, whether it be DIY or in kit form?

I can see insurance inspectors finding it installed and rejecting your claim on the basis that the driver aides "may have been" turned off at the time of the accident. If the system doesn't log an event each time you enable or disable, you would have no way of proving your aides were enabled.

[ELEGNT]

skidssssss

[DJKOR]

Quoted from Fuel Miser in the kit poll topic, the fragment I've bolded got me thinking, but I felt this thread more appropriate to raise such a discussion.

What would be the insurance implications of having this fitted, whether it be DIY or in kit form?

I can see insurance inspectors finding it installed and rejecting your claim on the basis that the driver aides "may have been" turned off at the time of the accident. If the system doesn't log an event each time you enable or disable, you would have no way of proving your aides were enabled.

Valid point. I am not able to go into the specifics of that without certainty so I will make no comment. My purpose of the thread was to provide information as to what is involved. The way I see it is that someone was going to realise this sooner or later and instead of getting a rough solution that can truly be unsafe, I wanted to at least provide a solution that would be less likely to cause any issues due to incorrect wiring.

As for insurance related stuff, someone else's scenario may vary, but I drive with a camera recording every time I am on the road. May not solve the problem of a case like this, but an extra set of eyes so to speak can be useful.

[retro]

Quoted from Fuel Miser in the kit poll topic, the fragment I've bolded got me thinking, but I felt this thread more appropriate to raise such a discussion.

What would be the insurance implications of having this fitted, whether it be DIY or in kit form?

I can see insurance inspectors finding it installed and rejecting your claim on the basis that the driver aides "may have been" turned off at the time of the accident. If the system doesn't log an event each time you enable or disable, you would have no way of proving your aides were enabled.

Valid point. I am not able to go into the specifics of that without certainty so I will make no comment. My purpose of the thread was to provide information as to what is involved. The way I see it is that someone was going to realise this sooner or later and instead of getting a rough solution that can truly be unsafe, I wanted to at least provide a solution that would be less likely to cause any issues due to incorrect wiring.

As for insurance related stuff, someone else's scenario may vary, but I drive with a camera recording every time I am on the road. May not solve the problem of a case like this, but an extra set of eyes so to speak can be useful.

sorry guys... been away at work for awhile

fuel miser brings up some valid points.....

i do use my car for track days... and well, on a track day your insurance is void.... hence u need to get a special "day licence" or whatever it is in the event u r competing in...

its the same with modding jetski's.... the product is claimed to be "of race use" only.....

i would not use this on the street. why would you??? hence the ability to plug the module into the OEM harness was what i thought was a brilliant idea...

most people driving aurions, whether they are the TRD version or not are not in the "general" hoon classification.... if i wanted to go 0-100km/h in under 3 seconds, i do that on the water.... not the road...

the traction conrol is actually damn dangerous in a cornering situation as it tries to pull the car straight... try doing that on barbegello raceway before the main straight if u come screaming down the hill, about 180km/h, hard on the brakes, wheels turned.. accelerate.. it isnt understeer, the ABS is trying to bring the car to a "safe stop"

having to do the "brakedance" (pun intended!!) everytime i start the car to do a lap is kinda funny... and sometimes u miss one step, and well... everyone is just looking at you like you're a fool.... its bad enough being the only FWD in the field with a few friends, but the TRD aurion is by no means hampered in performance in a field of v8's or xr6 turbo's in stock form..

perhaps make a feature where this can only be triggered when the transmission is in S mode and the button activated as what djkor has shown..

i think its a shame to can the idea.... thats just my 2 cents worth...

[ConnCarl]

What an interesting thread! I've an 09 Camry LE (U.S.) V-6, and I'd very much like a way to disable TRAC without doing the pedal dance.

What I've been wondering about is something I read on another forum, posted by an employee at a Toyota assembly plant. He claims that the TRAC disable switch was an option in 2009 and 2010. If that's true, it might be a simple matter to buy the switch and wiring from a wrecked 2011 and connect it to my 09.

After reading about DJKOR's work, I have to ask, what do you think of disconnecting the MAF/IAT sensor? If this is disconnected at idle, the car should stall, but after restart, should pull a CEL and the TRAC/VSC should be disabled for (at least) the current drive cycle.

If that's the case, it might be a very simple solution to wire a momentary SPST normally-closed pushbutton switch to create this fault condition. It's nowhere near as clean as the (admittedly very elegant) solution discussed here, but there's no way I'll be able to cobble DJKOR's circuit together.

Thanks! Carl