Are spacers safe???

[MR 988]

Hi all

I am thinking to buy 15mm or 20mm spacers to make wheels sit flush. But I heard they are not quite safe, is that ture? if yeah, any good brand recommend? anyone have any ideas? many thanks

Edited September 8, 2011 by MR 988

[trentmeyer23]

Not safe and illegal. Don't be cheap or stupid, spend the money and buy the right wheels.

[MR 988]

i am using 5mm spacers, are they ok ?

[trentmeyer23]

Spacers are ILLEGAL!

The reason being is that the full weight of the vehicle is carried by the wheels. The wheels rest on the the hub which transfers the load. By spacing the wheels out the load is effectively moved onto the wheel studs. Wheel studs have been known to sheer off and cause the wheel to fall off. Even with 5mm spacers the load transfer is changed and weakened.

Do you really want to be responsible for someones death due to being a cheap skate?

[zedder]

are they what gs2 was advertising.

[chicken]

yeah save the money (spacers are not cheap anyway) on rims with the desired offset. the extra 15-20mm space can be better used for extra dish or concavity which look more aggressive.

[MR 988]

GS 2 ??

[trentmeyer23]

The only way spacers are legal is if they are factory fitted, which is a rarity. The g2s ones are illegal too, regardless of what they try to tell you otherwise.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=52051&IsPgd=0

Although it only mentions there 2 of the states. It is almost a certainty that all states are the same in regards to spacers.

[daniboy]

i had a car in at work 2 weeks ago, a new v8 turbo diesel land cruiser, it had bolt on billet snake racing spacers, it came to us because the studs had snapped and it dragged the diff along the road. this is just one of many cases of spacers causing more damage than they are worth!

[P_T]

A couple of years ago, there was an accident near where I live. A wheel had come off a Skyline and hit a 10 year old boy putting him in a critical condition. I don't know if it was because of a spacer, but that should give you an idea on the potential damage/injury that could cause.

The driver was lucky it wasn't a group of children as it happened at the end of a school day. Some things are illegal for a good reason.

[MR 988]

thanks all comment

That sounds horrible. :( i probably leave as it is.

[private number]

All them bad stories aside, I know people who run spacers for a very long time with no issue what so ever. Ontop of that, i know some people who drift with spacers on with no issues. Like all car parts, dont cheap out on spacers. Get good quality brands for spacers IF you go get them. But they are not cheap with good reason. But if you have the option, save that extra dosh on good quality spacers for the wheels with the right specs to suit what look you are after.

[MR 988]

Do you have any recommended brands for spacers ?thanks

[Andrew357]

Do you have any recommended brands for spacers ?thanks

Just to remind you if you have forgotten...

SPACERS ON YOUR CAR WILL NOT BE LEGAL

[P_T]

If you really wanna buy a spacer, buy a bolt-on one. Just remember if the cops check your car for illegal mods, you will get defected for it.

[MR 988]

yeah, i probably leave as it is. thanks for all comments.

[clifton]

Seen people track with bolt on spacers with no problems.

[trentmeyer23]

Seen people track with bolt on spacers with no problems.

That is track use, not road use, still illegal and still not safe.

Edited September 13, 2011 by trentmeyer23

[fillit]

have been running spacers for a while now, only 5mm, feels indifferent, if it's anything above 5mm i would suggest getting hubcentric spacers. as stated above, best is to find rims in the right offset but sometimes that is difficult.

[Ronnyboy]

yeah, i probably leave as it is. thanks for all comments.

Great decision. Your not missing out on much

[Andrew357]

have been running spacers for a while now, only 5mm, feels indifferent, if it's anything above 5mm i would suggest getting hubcentric spacers. as stated above, best is to find rims in the right offset but sometimes that is difficult.

Doesn't make the use of spacers any more legal.

[fillit]

i never commentated about the legitimacy of spacers in accordance to road laws.

i agree with you that it is illegal, however with modifying cars a large amount of mods are actually illegal.

the OP asked about the safety of using spacers - they are safe to use so long as they are used properly.

with legality of car mods, coilovers are illegal as cops can do you for 2/3 easy, but coilovers are arguably safer as they keep the wheels in contact with road better than stock suspension.

SRI/CAI are illegal, although they are completely safe and wouldn't be a hazard to any fellow road users.

there's also a restriction in rim sizes if you were to upgrade 15x5.5 rims to 15x8 that would be illegal, arguably these rims would make your car safer as it allows more the tyre to be in contact with the road and if you pull your guards and they don't stick out, again that would be illegal according to the cops.

having HIDs are also illegal, it is only legal if it was factory or the car has projectors and headlight washers, but that doesn't stop the countless number of people blinding people on the roads.

as a person who modifies cars i can comment that there alot of "stock cars" which are in alot worse condition than our modified ones and in any case alot less safe, as we modify/care for our cars we intend to keep it in good condition. I wouldn't have anything on my car which would impend the safety of my passengers, road users or pedestrians and of course i wouldn't want to cause any damage to my vehicle.

[Andrew357]

i never commentated about the legitimacy of spacers in accordance to road laws.

i agree with you that it is illegal, however with modifying cars a large amount of mods are actually illegal.

the OP asked about the safety of using spacers - they are safe to use so long as they are used properly.

with legality of car mods, coilovers are illegal as cops can do you for 2/3 easy, but coilovers are arguably safer as they keep the wheels in contact with road better than stock suspension.

SRI/CAI are illegal, although they are completely safe and wouldn't be a hazard to any fellow road users.

there's also a restriction in rim sizes if you were to upgrade 15x5.5 rims to 15x8 that would be illegal, arguably these rims would make your car safer as it allows more the tyre to be in contact with the road and if you pull your guards and they don't stick out, again that would be illegal according to the cops.

having HIDs are also illegal, it is only legal if it was factory or the car has projectors and headlight washers, but that doesn't stop the countless number of people blinding people on the roads.

as a person who modifies cars i can comment that there alot of "stock cars" which are in alot worse condition than our modified ones and in any case alot less safe, as we modify/care for our cars we intend to keep it in good condition. I wouldn't have anything on my car which would impend the safety of my passengers, road users or pedestrians and of course i wouldn't want to cause any damage to my vehicle.

I am aware he asked about the safety, but given that OP stated he was looking to buy them and fit them; it's the right thing to do letting he/she know the legality of the intent.

I'm going to go by QLD road rulings given the differences betwee state RTAs.

SRI/CAI:

A SRI/CAI setup is not illegal as long as:

a ) the filter is securely fastened to the vehicle (no zip ties, needs to be a proper bracket)

b ) the vehicle continues to comply with ADR 28 (now superseded by ADR83) (external noise)

c ) the vehicle continues to comply with ADR 37 (emissions control)

Also the filter does not specifically need to be enclosed; however you may need to do so in order for the vehicle to comply with ADR 83.

Vehicle noise levels range from 76-81; for reference a passenger car 65 mph at 25 ft is rated around the 77db mark.

HID:

As you have said, HIDs are not illegal provided that they don't provide undue glare (re: Blind) other road users (ADR46) and the light provided must only be white light only. For compliance, this means proper lenses (no, not adjusted standard lenses); projector lenses and self-leveling ones if necessary.

Just because lots of people do it, doesn't make it any less legal.

Rims/Tyres:

Like most states you can only go so far in terms of increase or reduction, in your example (going from 5.5 to 8) is also illegal as it is more than the 1.3x allowance.

However, http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/c792a0c9-92b1-43ee-933b-7bdd8b20842f/pdf_modification_motor_vehicles2.pdf

doesn't state that flaring the guards is illegal, it just states that the wheel must protrude past the wheel arch/flares OR past where it would usually protrude past (if the wheels originally went past the vehicle).

I confirmed this some time ago when I emailed them regarding guard rolling (he referred to the guards as 'mudguards'):

Dear Andrew

Thank you for you email enquiry to the Department of Transport and Main Roads (the department) regards mudguard roling.

The rolling or flaring of mudguards is considered a Minor Modification, which requires no specific approval or modification plate to be fitted.

I would like to draw you attention to the department's web site, www.tmr.qld.gov.au, and search for "All about modifications to motor vehicles", "Lowering or raising of vehicles" page-5, and "Alternate rims and tyres" page-17. These 2 particular pages may be of interest to you regards lowering of a vehicle and or alternate rims and tyres.

The finished mudguard must not have any sharp or protruding edges that may resonably be expected to harm or injur a person. The tyre and rim must not foul wheel arches or suspension components under any conditions. Steering limit stops must not be adjusted to reduce the turning circle in order to allow the fitting of alternate rims and tyres.

I trust this answers your enquiry. Should you have further enquiries please contact myself at the modifications HelpDesk on:- Phone- (07)-3253 4851, Monday to Friday, 8.30 am to 4.30 pm (Wednesday,

9. 30 am to 4. 30 pm) I will be happy to help you.

Edmund Wasilewski of QLD Transport

I completely agree with you regarding the point about many modified cars being safer than standard cars but that doesn't give us an excuse to do non-legal modifications to the car <_< After all, hoons/car enthusiasts (we're all the same) rate on the top of Society's Most Wanted list second only to paedophiles.

[trentmeyer23]

I don't care if 500 people you know use spacers without any issues. As soon as one wheel falls off, it is too dangerous.

Spacers increse load on studs, bearings and other components by moving the position of the wheels mounting point.

If one wheel comes off due to spacers and the car spins out of control killing a young family, possibly your family, do you consider that justifiably safe? If so you have rocks in your head.

[fillit]

SRI/CAI:

A SRI/CAI setup is not illegal as long as:

a ) the filter is securely fastened to the vehicle (no zip ties, needs to be a proper bracket)

b ) the vehicle continues to comply with ADR 28 (now superseded by ADR83) (external noise)

c ) the vehicle continues to comply with ADR 37 (emissions control)

Also the filter does not specifically need to be enclosed; however you may need to do so in order for the vehicle to comply with ADR 83.

Vehicle noise levels range from 76-81; for reference a passenger car 65 mph at 25 ft is rated around the 77db mark.

yep, in victoria it needs to be enclosed. noise is 90DB at 2/3 of redline from like a meter away (never been epa'd don't know the specifics).

HID:

As you have said, HIDs are not illegal provided that they don't provide undue glare (re: Blind) other road users (ADR46) and the light provided must only be white light only. For compliance, this means proper lenses (no, not adjusted standard lenses); projector lenses and self-leveling ones if necessary.

Just because lots of people do it, doesn't make it any less legal.

agreed, i believe the white coloured bulbs from autobarn are legal, i have used HIDs but no longer do, just stating that it's something people do regardless of the law and cops tend not to pay too much attention to it.

Rims/Tyres:

Like most states you can only go so far in terms of increase or reduction, in your example (going from 5.5 to 8) is also illegal as it is more than the 1.3x allowance.

However, http://www.tmr.qld.g...r_vehicles2.pdf

was trying to point out that if the wheels did not stick out of the arch having a bigger width is technically safer for a car :)

I completely agree with you regarding the point about many modified cars being safer than standard cars but that doesn't give us an excuse to do non-legal modifications to the car After all, hoons/car enthusiasts (we're all the same) rate on the top of Society's Most Wanted list second only to paedophiles.

unfortunately a few ruin it for us, i wish they understood we modify cars for a hobby, keep our cars in top condition and actually abide by road rules more often than other drivers as we care alot for our vehicles. most people with highly modified vehicles granny around the roads and save their real potential for the track.

I don't care if 500 people you know use spacers without any issues. As soon as one wheel falls off, it is too dangerous.

Spacers increse load on studs, bearings and other components by moving the position of the wheels mounting point.

If one wheel comes off due to spacers and the car spins out of control killing a young family, possibly your family, do you consider that justifiably safe? If so you have rocks in your head.

with that argument, a situation like that could occur with any part? the amount of times i've seen hubcaps lying around on the road and swerving to avoid them. the friction of the wheel being secured onto spacer and hub is what takes the brunt of the load (yes studs carry some of the load too)I also use hub rings to ensure snug fit of the wheels, the amount of cars that i see driving around with a gap between the hub and the wheels is alarming, the studs are doing as much work as it being on the spacer! It is also important how you tighten the nuts and ensure it's not biased in any direction, overtightened/undertightened nuts are just as dangerous, also with aftermarket rims you require conical wheel nuts, there are countless amounts of people driving around with the wrong wheel nuts on their wheels also incredibly dangerous. depending on the state you are you would have different roadworthy rules, in victoria we don't have to do yearly checks such as NSW, we are only required to provide a roadworthy certificate when purchasing a car or if you get defected. There are a large amount of cars with bald tyres, broken break lights, broken headlights, collapsed suspension driving around... are they any more safe than using spacers on a car which you've researched and ensured that it placed on properly.

I'm not promoting illegal modifications, i'm only stating that if a modification has been researched and done properly, it would be safe, i wouldn't put my life or others lives at risk with the modifications on my car. In your scenario i do not believe my wheel would fall off, it is correctly tightened with the right wheel nuts, fitted on hubrings, has the correct alignment and i consistently do checks on my car to ensure it is in optimal condition.