Notchy GearBox - Part 2

[2ZZ-GE Sportivo]

This is the second time i have complained about my gearbox to toyota.

If anyone here, like me, has problems shifting 1st to 2nd gear change please read on and PM me your chassis number and rego number.

Had my car looked at just before by a service guy at toyota, this is the second time he has drivin my car to see what the hells wrong with the gearbox

He said the gearbox oil could have a little to do with the problem, he thinks when the car is in high revs (under more load) the syncros are not coping with the engine speed, and perhaps the oil used needs to be a thinner grade. There for freeing up the syncros at high revs, so you dont get that 'sticking feeling' as i like to discribe it.

So his conclusion is to take one step at a time;

1. Drain my tranny oil and fill with 50% trans oil and 50% motor oil (he says it works a treat)

If that dont work...

2. Gather all chassis numbers and rego numbers off all people who have the same or similar problems with there sportivos. So he can take action on this matter.

So please guys, let me know if you want to sort this gearbox issue out. It seems like a few of us are experiencing similar shifting problems.

Thanks guys.. :)

[dakota]

If YOU alter the gearbox oil composition to other than that recommended by Toyota, and you suffer a gearbox failure, you've probably voided your warranty.

I would very strongly suggest that you get the Technician (was he from Toyota, or the Dealership?) to confirm his recommendation in writing, take that to the DEALERSHIP and let them decide what to ..under no circumstances do it yourself.

You've a failing gearbox, and they tell YOU to dilute the gearbox oil..??

I cant believe this is a Toyota approved solution to the problem.

If you guys are interested, Castrol used to offer an oil analysis service, for about $20.00 theyd provide a container, and a prepaid pack, and would send you back a very comprehensive computer report on the condition of the oil you changed, including metals and dilution rates etc.

[ZEEROLLA]

What a coincidence. I went to Toyota today to tell them my problem and the service person was a d***head He sort of knew what i was going to tell him even before i spoke and he said ".. you are not supposed to rev the car to 7000 plus rpm. We can even void your warranty for that...."

I told him the manual never stated not to rev the motor past 7000rpm but only not to rev it into the redzone. He agreed and i told him that is at 8200rpm. He then replied "... although the engine is capable of revving that high, you are not supposed to. It is not a racecar. And when you rev that high, you would have problems shifting." WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!!

He also said i am the first person with the Stivo complaining about this problem and i said that is the PROBLEM! I said i test drove another Stivo and it didn't feel this way. I also said if it was the transmission oil and he said no.

After more exchange of words, i told him to go for a drive with me but he said no one was available and booked me in for Thursday I will show them what i mean then

And regarding the 50%engine oil and 50%transmission oil thing, this is interesting. I spoke to a guy at the aprts and accessories section about the Stivo's transmission oil and he told me initially the Stivos don't need transmission oil, because the transmission and engine shares the same lubricant= engine oil!! Then he showed me a computer generated picture of the Corollas engine but not the 2ZZGE. He was explainng and then suddenly became unsure and consulted someone else. He came back and said i should go get a 75W90W transmission oil from any store like Repco or AutoOne

So it has been a frustrating day today and i am very confused. I am considering sending the car somewhere else to get it checked.

Zee

[AzZaMaTaZ]

I have that problem... What do i need to do boys?

[BlackRolla]

I have the same problem too.

Toyota said that it is a big ask to shift at 8000RPM.

he said that it is not under normal driving conditions and that it was not designed to shift at that high revs.

Just have to wait and see if others have any success with Toyota in regards this this problem. I don;t think i can get anywhere with these guys.

[enny mini]

thats a load of horse **** i reckon hey.. if the car couldnt/wasnt able to handle that kinda high rev shifting, toyota WOULD HAVE made the fuel cut lower.. why is the fuel cut at 8200 and not 9k? because the transmission (engine + gearbox) can handle UP TO 8.2k.. i would complain about their service if i were you.. i dont feed you (sales rep) and your family only for you to come and give me attitude. When I pay 30k for a car, i friggin expect some standard of service!

[2ZZ-GE Sportivo]

The selling point of the car is it's motor. They say its got 141kw dont they? So why cant we use the 141kw, then change gear. Max power is at 7,800rpm so nobody could argue that you will void your warranty if you shift at redline.

The person who advised about the 50 / 50 motor and tranny oil was a mechanic at my dealership. He will be doing the whole procedure under warranty.

[lucio_libre]

I hope you guys arent using Optimax ;) .Im pretty sure toyota wouldnt make a gearbox that cant handle those revs, just dealers that might have too many costumer complaints and cant handle them all. The only reason for hard shifting would be caused by vibrations at those high rpm, i'm not a mechanic but there is quite alot of stress and strain at those revs. Mine is fine just sometimes dodgy on the 2-3 shift, it sort of jolts back like a horse. It's definetly not a smooth gearbox, by any standards. Keep hastling them, these complaint will be eventually resolved, the car is under warranty. If redline is at 8200, then you should be able to change at those rpms in every gear. I feel for you guys, coz my box is pretty good, no hastles soo far. Keep Complaining, something will get done!!!

[Pecker]

I use optimax, what is the problem with it?

What do you recommend?

[2ZZ-GE Sportivo]

I hope you guys arent using Optimax ;)

I use optimax 50% of the time. I dont see why you shouldn't, I know mobil synergy 8000 is cleaner but it cant be that much difference.

[lucio_libre]

OK, ive stopped using optimax after my 3rd tank. It made the car weak, and i had problems shifting in high rpm and low rpm, i mean it was hard. I used up that tank, i nearly went to toyota to throw the keys into their face. I filled up with Mobil synergy, and the car was soo much different, smooth, easy to shift, power back etc. Bad fuel puts more strain on engine components, increases vibration, harder to shift. Ive used Bp ultimate, its ok, but synergy 8000 is the fuel i always use, id rather ***** in the tank then use optimax. Thats my personal opinion, you guys use what you like, but anything under 98 octane, not for me.

[Screaminrolla]

Ive used optimax for all but about five tanks and never had a prob with it and i never noticed a difference when i changed fuel, my car has 21k and ive had no probs at all

[GZE_Bandit]

If you car isnt turbo or s/c then I doubt high RON fuel will make a *huge* amount of difference, since the car is simply not tuned for that type of fuel. Remember this is Australia not Japan and regular passenger cars (which the Corolla is - it aint a sports car people) are tuned for 95 RON fuel, ie regular unleaded.

Saying that, Optimax has fuel additives in it and these may be screwing around with your engine, rather than the low RON value.

[Blade Hunter]

I must say it is somewhat amusing that the dealers say you shouldn't rev a car that hard and its no wonder its hard to change gears yet a bike has no trouble changing at 16,000 rpm or an F1 car (which toyota are in development of) revs way beyond 8,000. These guys should put their brain in gear before accelerating with their mouths.

[Doolybird]

Hi GZE_Bandit

95 ron fuel is normal premium unleaded. 98 ron is the optimax, synergy 8000 , bp ultimate etc. fuel. Regular unleaded has a much lower ron rating than 95 in Australia. I wouldnt put regular unleaded in any performance engine turbo or not........we are not saying the sportivo is a racecar.....but it isnt a regular corolla either

Cheers

Josh

[dakota]

I heard Ducati no longer recommend Optimax due to a gelling problem.

If the bike is left unused for a few days, the additives can form a very thin jelly in the tank apparently, guess the same would apply to cars too.

I changed from Optimax to Mobil 8000 a few months back, and reckon it's a more consistant fuel (optimax seemed to perform differently with each batch) and I'm definately getting better MPG with Mobil 8000, I only use the big busy stations though for fresher fuel, less risk of water and sediment..

[enny mini]

BP Ultimate, period. Thats the only fuel you really should use. Well, that seems to be the only 98 RON fuel here in W.A, i dont think our shell dispenses optimax here.. Regular unleaded is 91 RON, at least in w.a it is..

GZE_Bandit: You can actually feel a (significant) drop in power using less than 98 RON fuel.. at least i felt the difference in mine.

You dont pay THAT much more for 98 RON over 95.. so why use a lower grade?

[ZEEROLLA]

I will try out the fuel thing and see how it goes. But i suspect its the transmission oil. I think Toyota isn't using Synthetic oil in our gearboxes, maybe just a mineral based motor oil

[Pecker]

Do you boys work for Mobil? Ive used Opimax all the Sprortivo's life (20k) but i might try mobil tonight. She's on E at the moment, ill let you know if it solves the problem pf the notchy gearbox.

Also:

GZE_Bandit: The Sportivo uses a high compression engine, which means normal unleaded (91 ron) can detonate before the spark occurs.

And in regards to only turbo/supercharged requiring high ron fuel that is not true.

The sportivo engine is a high performance engine, it has one of the highest Horse power per CC output of any N/A engine. (arpox 105HP per Litre a 5.7litre SS makes just 58HP/Litre)

And just like a Turbo/Supercharged engine under boost which runs at high compression so does the rolla.

Therfore you must use PULP (95 or Higher) and it does make a difference.

Sorry for the long post! :) :) :)

[GZE_Bandit]

I apologise, I should have specified 'regular premium' rather than 'regular unleaded'.

As I said, the performance of your engine relies on what its tuned for. If it aint tuned for 98 RON, I dont see how you could get a performance increase out of it. But hey if it does then go for it.

My car for example, I switched to BP Ultimate once I bought it and Ive been getting power problems and pinging at low revs, therefore I'm putting it in to be tuned to that specification. Mind you being a jap spec engine you'd think it would be tuned for like 101 RON or something...

What Im attempting to say is that when people say 'oh put high RON fuel in your car it will run better' I laugh...unless your car is tuned to accept and work with that fuel, it wont do jack.

[shaohaok]

I apologise, I should have specified 'regular premium' rather than 'regular unleaded'.

As I said, the performance of your engine relies on what its tuned for. If it aint tuned for 98 RON, I dont see how you could get a performance increase out of it. But hey if it does then go for it.

My car for example, I switched to BP Ultimate once I bought it and Ive been getting power problems and pinging at low revs, therefore I'm putting it in to be tuned to that specification. Mind you being a jap spec engine you'd think it would be tuned for like 101 RON or something...

What Im attempting to say is that when people say 'oh put high RON fuel in your car it will run better' I laugh...unless your car is tuned to accept and work with that fuel, it wont do jack.

it depends. on some newer cars, the ecu can tell the difference and advance the ignition timing accordingly, not by much, but enough for you to notice the difference.

[T-Sport]

optimax is convenient tho... all shell has optimax... if u use BP... not all stations have it and it can be a bother when u pull into one and find theres no 98 octane...

im not sure about mobile... i think sticking to one brand of petrol is the best way to go...

[GZE_Bandit]

The problem is that not all Mobil places have the Synergy stuff...I know the ones down here dont. Only place Ive seen it is Sydney, which is why I'm sticking to BP. Knowing what crap they put in Optimax, I wouldnt be putting it in my car more than once every 5-6 tanks...

[Blade Hunter]

I use BP Because its close to my house but if I have a preference I like Caltex Vortex, I have never had problems with it and the car alwas feels responsive with it.

[GZE_Bandit]

*wince* Vortex is pretty low RON, about 94-95 I think, and Caltex fuel has known to be dodgy on occasions...