Hard start after sitting for 4 hours or more

[Brendo88]

Hi Guys,

Hoping someone can shed some light on an issue Im having with my 07 Aurion.

BACKGROUND

Car has 160,000kms

Recently replaced the in tank fuel filter DIY. Followed the service manual perfectly, replaced all O rings.

According to log book, previous owner had the regular servicing done, and replaced the fuel filter.

Well, when I pulled the old one out it was one of the worst I had seen. Black as Black can be.

Anyway.... popped new one in, put it all back together and ran the engine. Ran perfectly fine, no issues at all. I continued to drive it daily for the next few days.

About 4 days later, had trouble starting the car. It had an extremely long crank time, then stuttered into life. it sounded like it was being starved for fuel. Once started it was fine. if the car was switched off, as long as you started it within 4 or 5 hours it would start perfect. If you left it longer than 5 hours the problem would come back.

I put my OBD2 scanner on, and it shows no codes.

Im having a hard time diagnosing what is the problem. Logic says it is losing fuel pressure somewhere.

My suspects are:

leaking injector - Highly unlikely as i have no other symptoms of this.

Leaking fuel pressure regulator

System leaks- Unlikely, no fuel smells at all anywhere.

Fuel pump- Possible, but there were no issues prior to the fuel filter change.

MAF- unlikely, no codes.

There are no engine codes at all. I would think if it was any of the above issues, it would probably report it, or even throw a too lean or rich code.

So,

Can anyone offer any any suggestions?

I don't want to throw money at parts like fuel pump etc without truly knowing the problem.

Thanks heaps for any suggestions!

[jeffy]

spark plugs ?

[Brendo88]

spark plugs ?

Plugs were done at 120,000kms with OEM iridium tipped toyota plugs, so I wouldn't think this would be an issue.

Hypothetically though, if they were an issue, would it throw a code, or have other symptoms. Car has zero problems when running, no power loss etc, only has a cold start crank problem

[Aiden Firth]

i had a similar problem not too long ago, car would struggle to start when its cold. Turned out to be the battery,

hope this helps lol

[Brendo88]

i had a similar problem not too long ago, car would struggle to start when its cold. Turned out to be the battery,

hope this helps lol

I did suspect that too. Put the multimeter on it and it is reading good though. Can it still be an issue even if it is reading fine?

[Aiden Firth]

i did a battery test on mine and it passed, but it was still playing up and my friend said replace the battery and i did and it fixed it lol

[Brendo88]

i did a battery test on mine and it passed, but it was still playing up and my friend said replace the battery and i did and it fixed it lol

hmmmm interesting. Would be a massive coincidence though considering the fact I only started having problems after the filter change

[Aiden Firth]

i did a battery test on mine and it passed, but it was still playing up and my friend said replace the battery and i did and it fixed it lol

hmmmm interesting. Would be a massive coincidence though considering the fact I only started having problems after the filter change

when did you last change the battery?

also if it was the fuel filter you would have problems accelerating etc?

[Brendo88]

i did a battery test on mine and it passed, but it was still playing up and my friend said replace the battery and i did and it fixed it lol

hmmmm interesting. Would be a massive coincidence though considering the fact I only started having problems after the filter change

when did you last change the battery?

also if it was the fuel filter you would have problems accelerating etc?

Battery is probably about 7 months old. No problems with acceleration etc. If it was the battery though, I would think that the problem would happen more frequently. I.e not after sitting for around 5 hours

[LordBug]

Most car shops/mechanics will chuck a battery tester on for free, that'll actually tell you if there's a dud cell or not. Multimeter doesn't cut the mustard in that regard.

[sportivo2007]

Had the same problem with my camry it turned out to be the battery, even tho it was reading good on the multimeter .

[Brendo88]

Battery Checks out. Looks like i will be replacing fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator.

[RoadRunner]

Battery Checks out. Looks like i will be replacing fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator.

Keep us updated, this has peaked my interest.

[CONROD]

Mate that is the exact same problem that I was experiencing with my 07 4.0 V6 Hilux. Leave it for around 6 hrs or overnight and it,ll crank excessively until it kicks. I know its fuel related as I removed the fuel hose off the fuel filter after it sat all night and no fuel came out until the second/third hit of the key (as the electric fuel pump wont pump until the engine cranks over), I replaced the fuel pump/strainer with a new Denso unit (saved almost $600 on Toyotas over priced),purchasing it aftermarket which turned out to be identical to original Denso unit. That helped but it still has a longer crank time than it used to have. I know the fuel is draining back, as it does it less when the fuel tank is full and I park it with the nose facing down hill.

I will replace the pressure regulator soon and see if that helps.

If you happen to solve yours please post up mate.

People say swap the battery, but it spins as fast as the day it was bought, its just the fuel is not there for it to fire.

Edited June 29, 2014 by CONROD

[Brendo88]

Will definitely Keep you all updated.

Make sure when you replace the pressure regulator that you do the O ring for it, as well as the Gasket for the fuel pump sub ***** too. I have seen these not seat properly before and cause pressure leaks.

I guess the other thing to look for, in your case would be the injectors although there are usually other symptoms if this is the case.

AFAIK- the only places you can lose pressure is:

A leak

injector leak

Bad pressure regulator

Bad fuel pump/ check valve

Leak in gasket

Leak in small oring that seals the fuel filter to the sub assembly

Have you checked yours for any OBD2 codes?

[Brendo88]

SOLVED!

Went ahead and bought an aftermarket Fuel pump and new o-rings. Went to put it in and noticed this:

O-ring was bent inside the fuel filter where it joins to the sub assembly. Put a new o-ring in properly, put it back together with the old pump. Works a dream, no more hard starts!

[matt36415]

Nice job finding the problem. Impressive.

[RoadRunner]

Glad that you solved the issue, something to remeber to check if you have isssues starting.

[Brendo88]

Thanks guys. It was starting to drive me nuts, glad it was only something simple.

[RoadRunner]

Thanks guys. It was starting to drive me nuts, glad it was only something simple.

Hey Brendo, Just wondering if you could tell me where is the fuel pump and is it easy to get to? mine is having trouble starting if it's not been driven in a day or two and i would like to check to make sure that it's not the same thing :)

[Brendo88]

Thanks guys. It was starting to drive me nuts, glad it was only something simple.

Hey Brendo, Just wondering if you could tell me where is the fuel pump and is it easy to get to? mine is having trouble starting if it's not been driven in a day or two and i would like to check to make sure that it's not the same thing :)

The fuel pump and filter are both in the fuel tank, accessed though the floor under the rear seat. If you are going to have a look I would strongly suggest changing the fuel filter, o rings, and gasket while you have it open if you haven't already. It only costs about $50 for all the parts you need.

Best way is to follow the service manual exactly.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-a6Tk-Li8MWNzQxYTZhZDgtMDc0MS00NDM1LWI0NGUtMDY4ZmRiODRmZDgw&usp=drive_web&urp=http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/19545-&pli=1&hl=en_GB

Click on "2GRFE fuel" and go to page FU-27.

Tells you step by step how to do it. Its actually not hard at all. Give us a yell if you have any questions.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Brendo88

[Aurion ZR6]

These 2 type of fuel filters for sale with one to get?

1 cost $80.00

The other called: Wesfilter WFC22 and only cost $33.00, what do you get with the cheaper one, does it come with new o-rings?

As my car 2006 model is doing the some symptom, very hard to start in the morning after not driving the car for a few day's.

I know I need to change the fuel filter, as I've not change it yet, my fault, but the car only travelled 70,000 on the clock.

[Brendo88]

The cheap ones only come with the o ring for the fuel pressure regulator. You'll need to go to a Toyota dealer and grab the o ring for the top section and also the fuel cover gasket.

[Aurion ZR6]

Thanks Brendo88

[Aurion ZR6]

OK find what gasket and o-ring to get.

Gasket 77159-33020

O-ring 90301-07020, 23300-0D030

As 23300-0D030 is mention from Ebay Ryde Toyota.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Aurion ZR6