sub placement

[JJCRU23R]

ok so im trying 2 figure out the best sub placement and since my sources have told me 2 position a subwoofer is rearward facing for the best sound. this has 2 do with the soundwaves bouncing towards the rear and rebounding to the passengers in the front.

with that being said...

my question is referring to where in the boot do i place the speaker?

does this really matter or is this a non issue?

im not factoring in the size of the sub box, ill worry bout the variables (sealed vs. portted) of that later.

as you can see on the attached image, its more or less a floorplan of the boot.

one idea im considering was to build a custom box that squeezed into the right corner (POSITION1), with only 2-3 inches of space between the face of the sub and the back door. this only partially exposes the face of the subwoofer when the boot is opened.

the other option,(POSITION2), which ive noticed is more popular in general, is to place the subs directly behind the rear seats, whether its in the middle or slightly to the side like my diagram. this leaves at least a foot of space between the face of the sub and the back door.

ive only got an 8inch sub... but its a solobaric so its square which means bigger sound 4 less space than a round sub of the same size.

would there be any sound variation between the two positions?

your input is much appreciated.

jase

Edited September 18, 2006 by JJCRU23R

[Azza]

Hi Jase,

I have mine in the centre of the boot facing the hatch door, and I find that this gives the most optimum sound for me.

In saying that, if you are customising a box and are wanting to shunt it slightly to one side, then I'd be looking at option 2 on your picture.

Option 1 leaves the design open for the sound waves to be absorbed into the carpet in the back around the rear of the tail light area, for some this may sound a bit silly, but its true. Carpet absorbs sound, so if you point your sub at it, then obviously your sound will appear a little muffled.

Option 2 has the sound hitting the actuall hatch door a little more, therefore bouncing....

Hope this helps.

Aaron

[DHC09]

Just to add a lil something i found with my own setup:

If you want extra thump from the sub make a custom cut boot floor without carpet.

I have recently carpeted my custom boot floor made of hard plywood without carpet and its not as loud and cant "feel" the bass as much ;)

[JJCRU23R]

thankx azza.

yea im actually looking for the best solution as far as space saving as well as sound quality. so im still leaning towards position 1 coz of the space aspect

i do like silverbullets custom sub box but his sub points towards the center of the boot and yea ive been told that it wont sound as well as having the sub pointed towards the rear door.

ok, what if the sub was still placed at position1, but instead pointed at a 45degree angle so its aimed towards the back door and not aimed towards the back of my tail lights?

im guessing thats still be not as good as the position2 of the diagram, yea?

Just to add a lil something i found with my own setup:

If you want extra thump from the sub make a custom cut boot floor without carpet.

I have recently carpeted my custom boot floor made of hard plywood without carpet and its not as loud and cant "feel" the bass as much ;)

do you have pics of your subs?

id very much like 2 take a look at your box :)

ok that sounded wierd..

i checked your registry and didnt see a pic of your subs

Edited September 19, 2006 by JJCRU23R

[DHC09]

Yup i'll post it wen i get home later tonite

I have duel subs in a pioneer box

[JJCRU23R]

so they are custom to fit inside the boot or are they just a basic cube design?

BTW im also interested to see your boot floor.

why did you have 2 redo the floor?

Edited September 19, 2006 by JJCRU23R

[DHC09]

The sub/box came together as one unit, so i guess u can say its a Pioneer factory box. it just happens to fit snuggly behind the rolla rear seats. the design of the box has the subs in a slight upward angle.

i orignally made the new floor cause i didnt like the soft stock floor and needed something stronger to hold up the weight of the subs and amp. its easy to make the floor just use the stock floor to trace it on a plywood and cut it out ;)

At 1st i was too lazy to cover the new floor, and recently i got some light-weight carpet-like matterial (from spotlight ) to match the interior colour. i guess the bass is clearer/sharper now with the carpet absorbtion but as said b4 cant feel the bass anymore... well alot less....

[Azza]

ok, what if the sub was still placed at position1, but instead pointed at a 45degree angle so its aimed towards the back door and not aimed towards the back of my tail lights?

im guessing thats still be not as good as the position2 of the diagram, yea?

Prolly would not be much different to having it face the side completely, like Silvabullits

[JJCRU23R]

gday again.

ive decided to go with placing the box to the side ALA silvabullets, but still tossing up whether i should do the same thing as SB's or do the 45 degree angle pointing towards the rear door idea. looks wise im leaning towards the 45 degree idea.

if sound quality is gonna be compromised then so be it. id rather have it to the side then take up the much needed middle part of my bootspace.

see pic of work in progress here-

BTW im planning on fibreglassing the back wall of the box and screwing & silicone sealing it to the mdf base.

EDIT

after some measurements quick calculations i have found that if i built the box with the base ive already made, thatll be equal to slightly less than 42.4Litres.

that kinda size is equal to a 10 or 12 inch solobaric subwoofer... 2 damn big!

the maximum sealed space my sub requires is 21.24Litres!

so this box is gonna be much smaller than expected!

Edited September 19, 2006 by JJCRU23R

[DHC09]

Good timing JJ. I was going to put back the subs tonite after the track day, and i took some fotos along the way

Heres the pic with the custom floor without carpet

And with carpet

My box :P

With a custom floor u wont need to worry about wrecking OEM gear and can drill some holes to hide cables

My set up: i could also face the subs towards the rear seats, but i like this beta B)

[JJCRU23R]

nice 1 dhc!

if i didnt need all the space i could get in the rear, id go and get a 2nd solobaric and fix the amp into the floor kinda like you did.

but yea.. baby needs a stroller and its already a struggle 2 get it into the boot.

took out the parcel shelf long time ago to make it easier on myself but still... boot space is 2 much of a necessity.

[DHC09]

Thanks mate :)

back to the sub placement, personally i dont think it will matter very much where u place or angle the sub as its in the same cabin (hatchback) and not in the trunk of a sedan, therefore its gonna be loud as anyway ;)

the other thing is to consider rattling, so dont aim the subs too close to plastic panels (hatch door). not only will it be annoying but ur hatch door will sound like its gonna fall apart wen u crank it up

[JJCRU23R]

yea that makes a lot of sense. the diy tutorials i been reading bout doing the fibreglassing all are based on sedans. different sound quality issues with our hatches ay? oh well so i guess the silvabullit sub position is the way 2 go. im sure itll be loud anyway. just as long as it works!

dad borrowed the electric saw thingy (im fully technical with the tool namez ay?!) so i didnt finish making the mdf rings where the speaker will be screwed into. gonna look nice with the sub kinda sinking into the wall of the box instead of sticking out by bout 1.2cm if i didnt do otherwise.

but yea im heading off 2melbourne on friday morning, returning saturday morning... so dont think ill really have the time to continue with this install until sunday (day off).

might just do the fibreglassing tonight though...

by the time i get back from melbourne the glass would have hardened already :))

nice 1!

Edited September 21, 2006 by JJCRU23R

[Nunga_08]

What if you want to use your boot for say, oh I don't know, storing stuff? How do you do that with an amplifier occupying the last available space to lay something flat? It's bad enough half the boot is taken up by the box (but that's understandable as it's only a hatch and not a big wagon). Sure it looks alright, but it's pretty impractical.

If you're worried about wires in the hatch rattling, take the plastic panel off and wrap the wires and connections in foam. I got some foam that had an adhesaive backing and cut it up into little strips. I didn't completely cover the wires, just in small sections to ensure there was no contact with metal (or plastic). Worked a treat.

[Azza]

Obviously, if you are a big user of your bootspace, then a system like this would not be practical.

I have a small box in my boot, that leaves 75% of my boot spare with my amp sitting under the front passenger seat.

As mentioned, if your requirement of the car is caryying stuff, then this obviously isn't the install for you....

DHC's use for his car is carrying himself, and his doof doof, therefore remaining space is not an issue...

[JJCRU23R]

ummm.. yea guys i was only curious 2 see what others have done with their subs to get the best sound as well as save space! i think ive been saying that from the start!?!

yea nunga i think i have some of that foam sticker stuff lying round... will consider doing that once i get the sub cranking! wont know if thats necessary until i got the sub operating already. nice idea there!

obviously dhc'z install wouldnt suit my needs but yea its nice 2 discuss this kinda stuff n see that other people are doing DIY stuff like me :) when it comes to the wiring, ill come to that bridge when i saved up enough money for that kicker mono amp i been lusting after at jbhifi. gotta get the kicker amp if im installing a kicker sub! call it coordination or attention 2 detail or rice or wateva... but yea, obviously itll look better showing that they are both of the same brand!

but the amp can wait 4 now. once again i know that dhcs install isnt practical, but its nice 2 see what other people have done to improve their ridez.

by the way i only had 2 hours sleep b4 my flight coz i was up late sitting in my boot doing the fibreglassing @ my parents house.

slept @ 2, woke up @ 4.

must say i did rush it and im afraid it wouldnt turn out as well as it could have been if i had the proper time and sleep coz i was tired az... i only layed 1 layer of fibreglass and im pretty sure i missed a spot or 2.. but since its gonna end up being like 4 layers thick or more 2 get it nice and solid, if anything was missed i can always go back, cut off the problem areas and continue building on top of the parts that did turn out nicely.

now my car and my parents garage stinks to high heaven with the resin fumes!

so... yea... its a work in progress! as long as i covered everything in the boot properly i got problem with the smell.

get back2 u'z later!

jase

Edited September 22, 2006 by JJCRU23R

[DHC09]

What if you want to use your boot for say, oh I don't know, storing stuff? How do you do that with an amplifier occupying the last available space to lay something flat? It's bad enough half the boot is taken up by the box (but that's understandable as it's only a hatch and not a big wagon). Sure it looks alright, but it's pretty impractical.

If you're worried about wires in the hatch rattling, take the plastic panel off and wrap the wires and connections in foam. I got some foam that had an adhesaive backing and cut it up into little strips. I didn't completely cover the wires, just in small sections to ensure there was no contact with metal (or plastic). Worked a treat.

chill its my boot not yours!! :P

I'm a PhD student so i dont have lug sh!t around all the time like a tradie. the only other stuff i have in the boot is the sun-visor and a hat. 90% of the time its just me in the car, the rear seats are practically still new after 3.5yrs. if i do need to "store stuff" i'll take my dads ppl mover. and if i really really need to use my rolla to move stuff it takes only 5mins to disconnect and remove the sub+amp and put the rear seats down.

its quite silly to get a hatch to store alot of stuff ;) may i suggest a sedan or wagon

The rattling i mentioned is the whole hatch door not the wires. when i crank it up the whole door vibrates (inc. plastic panels, wippers, number plate...)

Edited September 22, 2006 by DHC09

[Nunga_08]

Not having a big go at you mate, yeah it's your car. But if you can easily remove the gear I see no problems. The move of a smart man.

Number plate's can have rattling stopped with the same adhesive foam, too (first mod I did). I can't stand rocking up next to (almost always) VL's with crappy subs cranked and the boot rattling to the high heavens. *** it sh*ts me.

[BigBum]

...I can't stand rocking up next to (almost always) VL's with crappy subs cranked and the boot rattling to the high heavens. *** it sh*ts me.

A sight for sore eyes and well as a sight for sore ears.

[JJCRU23R]

gday people...

after returning from melbourne... this is what ive got so far.

so far so good! ran out of fibreglass though :/

still want to make the fibreglass box THICKER. suckz... fibreglass isnt cheap so yea dont waste it!

ill get more next week when centrelink comes in HA!

Edited September 24, 2006 by JJCRU23R

[Azza]

gday people...

after returning from melbourne... this is what ive got so far.

so far so good! ran out of fibreglass though :/

still want to make the fibreglass box THICKER. suckz... fibreglass isnt cheap so yea dont waste it!

ill get more next week when centrelink comes in HA!

Good work Jase, taxpayer funded boot install

[JJCRU23R]

YEP!

austudyz heaps good 4 putting food on the table and subs in my boot :)

thats only until i graduate... then ill be earning casual teacher money!

havent u ppl noticed that most of my most recent mods have been freebeez in 1 form or another?!

just lucky that fathers day and my bday happen in the same month!

oh yea the mdf sub ring was trimmed this morning to properly fit the dimensions of the box.

i only noticed this morning that with the rear tyre bumpy thingy taking up almost a quarter of the space, i couldnt position the rings properly without having to make the box bigger.

so yea im still working on making the perfect balance of sound quality, proper fitting, appearance and space saving.

was heaps challenging since i was adding layers of fibreglass in the back of my boot while we had that wild sydney wind yesterday... gumleaves and branches falling everywhere @ like 100km/h winds apparently?! (thats what the news said)...

and yea that didnt help with the dust of the mdf and the electric saw... i got a proper dust filter mask and safety goggles but still sh!t got in my eyes.

also i think that the wind is to blame for the rapid drying of my fibreglass resin.. damn it blame the wind 4 everything!

one of my main problems now is that after peeling as much of the masking tape off the back of the box, its all really sticky/tacky! the inside of the box is nice and dry to touch though. is it the resin or the masking tape thats left the whole back sticky? should i just leave it out? ive left it in the garage coz i dont want the wind blowing dust and **** on it like when i was inspecting the box this morning.

also what do you think i should do with the back of the box? obviously its gonna be heaps tight if i carpet it. carpets gonna be thick so im considering an alternative for the back. just spray paint it in matt black?

also with the front of the box... might consider covering it in something OTHER than stock black/grey carpet.

i was thinking along the lines of some sort of acrylic material (anything that looks similar to the material on the dash?) with the KICKER logo embossed (saw how they do that on pimp my ride or funkmaster flexs show or something like that...) :) possibly some combination of black or grey or orange or red. kinda hard 2 visualise what im trying 2 get at but yea... anyone got ideas on how to colour this thing??

another option im also considering painting the front of the box the same silver as the rest of the car.. itll look strange though i think... nothing really coloured silver on the inside.

but yea SUGGESTIONS PLEASE?! then you can be credited 4 helpin me create this thing :) (that is if you havent already given me advice so far :P) thanks 4 ur help so far !

Edited September 25, 2006 by JJCRU23R

[JJCRU23R]

UPDATE!

so far today... ive done this much....

after making the fibreglass to a thickness im happy with, i cut the shape of the box out...

as you can see in this pic, ive cut away the excess and im left with a nice neat edge and it fit better than expected :)

here you can see that the sub box fits nicely and doesnt interfere with the babyz stroller! YAY!!!!

also, notice ive already positioned the sub ring in place.

in these pics, you can see ive just mdf glued the fabric over the sub ring and glued to the back of the fibreglass.

the angle grinder ring was placed on top to help the fabric stretch, helped me to sort out the creases in the fabric while fixing it into place with the glue.

after this, ill resin the fabric and begin the final stage of fibreglassing :))

oh yea if you are wondering bout the cost of this box so far...

2x size 3 fibreglass kits $103

3/4 inch mdf $14

1/2 inch mdf $10

thick masking tape $5

fabric $1

TOTAL = $133 for materials

filter mask (proper mask)- $27

goggles (decent pair) - $10

rotary tools (bunnings generic brand)- $60

drill

scissors

glue gun

wood glue -$7

MDF glue - $7

all these things were not included in the total because ive bought most of this stuff b4 i started making this thing, and obviously theyll still be usefull long after ive finished making the box.

resin to go on tonight!

Edited October 1, 2006 by JJCRU23R

[Azza]

Good work Jase, cant wait to see the finished product....

[JJCRU23R]

ok today i woke up and took a look at the box... saw that the resin was still gooey!?

so left it in the sun for 2 hours then it was ready 2 lay a coat of fibreglass onto the front.

let it dry by the afternoon and spent the last hour sanding out the rough bits and cutting away fibreglass that had air pockets in it...

then i kinda got a lil 2 excited... and even though im nowhere near where i want to be with the fibreglass i screwed in the kicker to see how it fit...

forgot to buy hardener with the putty with the fibreglass filler & bondo i bought today. :( all i gotta do is get all those holes and rough edges bondo'd to HOPEFULLY seal all the holes.

autobarn near my place normally stocks sub woofer carpet... but they had 2 run out of stock when i actually needed 2 buy it! sonofab!itchhh....

ok heres the pics.

nowhere near testing it out yet but at least it looks good!

Edited October 2, 2006 by JJCRU23R