The big 5S-FTE post

[Guest]

I have had quite a few people recently ask me for more info about how you go about boosting a 5S-FE… so I thought I would put everything I have learnt in one place to make it easier for people.

This thread comes with the usual disclaimer, I take no responsibility for any damage you cause to yourself, others or your property by attempting anything detailed in this thread. If you do not agree to this, close this thread now.

So with that out of the way, here we go;

Background information;

What is the 5S-FE?

The 5S-FE is a 2.2L Inline 4 Cylinder engine, produced by Toyota from 1990 to 2001. It was based on the previous 3S-FE but featured an increased stroke and bore to increase its capacity from 2.0 to 2.2L.

It was used in the 5th and 6th Generation Celica and 3rd and 4th Generation Camry in the Australian market, as well as the 2nd Generation MR2 in the US market.

It features a stroke of 90.93mm and a bore of 87.12mm with a compression ratio of 9.5:1

Like the 3S-FE, the 5S-FE is a non-interference design to prevent the pistons from striking the valves if either of the camshafts were rotated separately from the crankshaft

Why would you want to do this?

There are a few reasons to conceder doing a 5S-FTE;

Cost;

It will be cheaper to get all the required parts and install them on your 5S than to purchase a 3S-GTE half cut

Time/Effort;

You don’t need to remove your engine to do this (unless you plan a rebuild) so the can potentially be less downtime.

To be different;

How many turbo'd 5S-FE’s are there in Australia? 3 that I know of (including mine) and one 1 that is supercharged (trents)

Torque:

Since the 5S-FE is a long stroke motor with a decent side displacement, it creates far more torque than a 3S-GTE, does not need to rev as hard to generate power, spools the turbo faster (~2000rpm for a CT26) and is generally more fun to drive on the street.

What motor do I have?

There are two revisions of the 5S-FE Motor, while the engine itself is mostly the same (some differences in the block such as ribbing, etc) they are pretty similar.

Revision 1

This was the one from 1990-1991, you can tell by looking at the cam cover that it’s a Rev 1

This model is the weakest/worst of the 5S-FE’s (its also the one I had ) the block is not as strong as later models and it lacks a knock sensor (both of which are bad for boosting)

This model uses are more basic fuel injection system as well. (batch fire injectors)

Revision 2

This is the engine from 1992-1999 below is a picture of the different cam cover.

This engine is more suited to boost as it has both a knock sensor (will cover more on this later) and the block is somewhat stronger. If you are replacing your engine, try and obtain the latest year model engine you can find.

This model also had far more advanced fuel injection (sequential fire injectors as opposed to batch), slightly less aggressive cams, no cold start injector, and a more aggressive ECU.

What do I need to do this?

Hardware:

1. CT26 Turbo from a 2nd Generation 3SGTE (5th Gen Celi, 2nd Gen MR2)

2. CT26 Turbo Manifold from a 2nd Generation 3SGTE (5th Gen Celi, 2nd Gen MR2)

3. Dump pipe from a a 2nd Generation 3SGTE (5th Gen Celi, 2nd Gen MR2) or an aftermarket dump pipe to suit CT26

4. Front Mount Intercooler (Ebay ones are fine, about 26in long will fit fine under an 5th Gen celica front bar)

5. Intercooler piping (2.5in at most, 2in for better throttle response)

6. Silicone pipe joiners

7. 3inch piping for air intake

8. Pod filter

9. Blow off Valve

10. Boost Controller (ball + spring type is good for MBC, EBC will also work)

11. Dump pipe back exhaust (go to an exhaust shop for this, your stock one will not bolt on)

12. Misc. items (vacuum hose, hose clamps, gaskets, etc)

You could use a different turbo setup if you wanted to, you would need a manifold (or adapter), turbo and dump. The reason most people go for the CT26 is because it’s a direct bolt-on to these motors

Electronics:

1. MAP sensor from a 3S-GTE (5 or 6th Gen Celi or 2nd Gen MR2)

2. Boost Gauge

3. Larger injectors (360cc +)

4. Larger Fuel pump (Supra TT pump, Walbro 255, etc)

5. Colder Spark Plugs (BK6 or BK7)

6. Fuel Control (Greddy Emanage, AEM FIC, HKS Fcon, etc)

7. Ignition Control (CRUCIAL on revision 1, Emanage Blue or Black will do this)

The above listed parts are a bare minimum of what is needed to do this here are some additional things you might want (but don’t need in a basic setup)

Additional Parts;

1. Heavy duty clutch (you WILL blow your stock clutch if you run 12psi+)

2. E153 Transmission + LSD + CV’s (if you want to run more than 250-300hp @ the wheels)

3. Lower compression forged pistons and conrods (so you can run more than 16psi safely, you will need a better turbo too) + Engine Rebuild

4. CT20B turbo (or GT28RS, GT35, T3/T4, et.al) (The CT26 isnt very efficient over 12psi, so if you want to run more a better turbo is a good idea)

5. Wideband O2 Sensor (will let you know your AFR’s, you NEED this to tune yourself)

6. Oil Pressure Gauge (it’s a good idea to know your oil pressure)

7. EGT Gauge (this will help tell you if you are running too lean)

8. Bigger breaks (self explanatory)

9. 3S-GE Head (to make a 5S-GTE)

10. Stand Alone Management (Haltech, Adaptronic, etc)

There is really no limit (besides money) on what you can do here. In this thread I am just going to cover my 1st setup, so this will be specific to a Celica, CT26 and Greddy Emanage.

All of the theory can be applied to any other selection of car, turbo or management), you could also apply this theory to a supercharged application (e.g like trent has done).

What to watch out for

There are several potential issues that can arise from boosting a normaly NA motor, but there are ways arround them. The most dangerous of them being knock (detonation, pinging).

Now, knock/detonation occurs when the mixture in the cylinder is ignited to early (ignition timing too far advanced) or the mixture burns too hot.

Rev 2 5S-FE's with a knock sensor have a way of detecting this and then retarding the timing to prevent it from happening. Rev 1 does not.

The problem with retarding the timing, is that it hurts performance. Its a bit of a Catch 22, too far advanced and you will knock, too retarded and it will be a slug.

Running boost makes this issue worse, adding lots of hot compressed air to the cylinder increasing the temperature and pressure.

Another solution is to run a richer (and thus denser, cooler burning) mixture, the problem with this is that too much is wasteful, fills your motor with carbon and hurts performance.

But, there are ways to overcome this...

1. Run higher octane fuel, this is more dense and burns cooler.

2. Retard your timing as boost increases (this is the best solution)

3. Set your base timing to be more retarded...

4. Run a richer air fuel mix

The best solution IMO is to do items 1, 2 and 4...

Using the emanage (or whatever you chose) you can set it to retard the timing by a certian ammount per pound of boost... Then you also want to use the emanage to add a little more fuel when under boost (AFR of no more than 12:1). This, combined with the denser high octane fuel will keep your motor safe.

Many people say not to bother with a Rev 1 5S-FE but I dont agree. If you tune it right, then its just as safe as a Rev 2.

The key to not popping your engine is tuning!

If you run a Rev 2 motor, you are somewhat safer, with the engine retarding the timing as it detects knock, but you still need to tune fuel (running larger injectors will add too much fuel off boost anyway) and you should still run high octane fuel.

The next issue, is over fueling... Running larger injectors with no tuning will cause your AFR's to go through the floor. The only way to fix this is with tuning. You NEED a way to tune your fuel injection curve, there is no way around this.

With larger injectors, your car will be fine under boost (maybe even too lean) but out of boost, it will run pig rich. The emanage (or whatever you chose) will fixt this. That said, without a wideband o2 sensor (which accurately reports AFR's) you cannot tune it yourself. You are far better getting it tuned by a professional.

Putting it all together;

So once you have acquired all the parts you need to do this, here is how you go about putting it all together. I suggest you start with the electronics first (except the larger injectors and MAP) as you can still drive the car with these parts on, and you can confirm that everything still works as normal before you bolt the actual turbo, etc on.

The first piece of electronics that I connected was the Greddy Emanage Blue, this is a piggyback ECU that intercepts your engines MAP sensor (for airflow information) and ignition driver (to retard timing) to ‘fool’ the ecu into thinking there is either more (or less) air coming in, so as to add (or subtract) fuel.

See the below diagram of how to wire the emange to your ECU.

Once you have the e-manage all wired in and working (i would do this before you start pulling the car apart) you can then add your wideband (if you are using one) and any gauges.

I personally used a Zeitronix ZT2 WBO2, I replaced the stock narrow band with this and use its narrow band emulation feature to talk to the ECU. I simply made up and adapter plate and mounted in the stock location on the dump pipe.

<pic>

Once you have the electronic side of things completed, its time to actually mount the turbo hardware. This is probably one of the easier parts of the conversion. The first thing you need to do is remove the existing headers and 'b' pipe of the exhaust.

Then, make sure your turbo, dump and manifold are all bolted together as one unit and do a test fit (just sit the manifold over the studs, don't bolt anything up yet. If nothing fouls, remove the turbo assembly and set it aside.

The next thing you NEED to do is fix up the oil cooler coolant lines, if you don't do this they WILL melt and you will have a massive leak on your hands.

There are two ways of doing this.

1. Remove the factory oil cooler and block/remove the coolant lines, this is a good solution if you plan to relocate your oil filter and run an aftermarket oil cooler.

2. Replace the existing rubber lines with high temperature silicone and install a proper heat shield. This is the approach i took and was able to retain the stock oil cooler and filter location without any dramas.

Bear in mind I am drawing from my experience of doing this on a Celica, from what I have been told the Camry is slightly different in its oil cooler/front engine mount location.

Once you have sorted out your oil cooler/lines you can move on to the turbo oil/coolant lines.

These lines can be done by adapting the stock feeds, or purchasing new ones off eBay or the like.

In my initial setup, I adapted the stock feeds, but have since purchased some -an fittings from ebay and gone custom.

here is a photo of the adapted stock lines

<pic>

You will need to source your coolant from the throttle body coolant jacket (as we live in Australia and its hot, the coolant jacket in the TB is unnecessary)

As for the oil feed, you will use the GT4 sump which has a large pipe fitting in it for its oil return.

for the oil inlet you will need to cut the banjo fitting off and either attached a oil-rated rubber pipe, or get a fitting welded on. The fitting would be preferable here.

You will then need to run this up to your 'tee' fitting in the head (where the oil pressure switch is) PLEASE use quality fittings here, as cheap ones tend to fail/leak. I personally used a VDO fitting that I drilled out.

<pic>

Once you have your coolant and oil lines sorted out you can mount the turbo permanently. Make sure you use a new quality 5SFE exhaust gasket when doing this and everything is done up nice and tight.

The next thing you need to do is some more electronic work, we need to install our new injectors and MAP sensor.

The map sensor is easy, remove the current one from your firewall and replace it with the 3SGTE one, you will have one vacuum hose and one plug to undo.

<pic>

The next is the injectors, start by cracking the banjo bolt on the fuel filter (down near the charcoal cannister) to remove any fuel pressure.

NOTE: There will be fuel leaked doing this, so be very careful.

Next you need to remove the fuel rail, it is held on by two bolts which should be quite obvious, once you have done this, unplug all four injectors and pull the rail and injectors out.

Get your new injectors along with new o-rings and injector seals and re-assemble in the reverse order.

<pic>

Most of the hard work is done now...be sure to check for obvious things and be sure that everything is connected, tightened, filled, etc.

You can try and start the car now, it will run and idle (badly) with the bigger injectors and MAP and you could even take it for a quick OFF BOOST test drive.

From here, you need to tune it, I am not going to cover that in this post, and I recommend you load it on a trailer and take it to a reputable tuner.

If you wish to tune it yourself thats fine, but make sure you know what you are doing!

[ELEGNT]

good write up!!!!

[trentmeyer23]

Yeah Mick really good write up, and I pretty well agree with everything you said, and bar the ignition control(because i have the REV 2) my electronics are bascially modified the same. You can also use Denso IK22 spark plugs if you want to stay with genuine plugs. My setup conservative as it may be at 5.5 psi is making 108 KW (145 HP) and just over 200 Nm at the wheels, and that is without an intercooler. The 3 boosted 5S-FE's are yours, mine and the green Gen 3 Camry Mick?

Edited July 8, 2010 by trentmeyer23

[Guest]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

[ELEGNT]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

like:

in preperation for this engine upgrade, you MUST buy rattle cans in matt black and unleash on your car. after this step is done, keep people guessing and run mixed wheels and inverted angle exhaust....backyard FTW

Edited April 27, 2011 by mick.wheelz

[Guest]

If you have any questions, please ask them here.

[KIRIUS]

This is very helpful!

I thought turboing the 5sfe was out of my league and waste of money modifying(i've had alot of non celica fans tell me a tonne of bad info.) but after reading this i think i will skip the 3sgte conversion and try my luck over the next yr with the ct26 set up you have mentioned here. :D

Thanks!

ah question.

There a considerable difference between the 3 5sfte's in reference to how much it cost each of you?

[trentmeyer23]

Mine wasn't a 5S-FTE(Turbo) it was was a 5S-FZE(Supercharged). Mine would have been a more costly, but if you count costs you will go crazy. I am in the middle of a 5S-GTE build currently, just awaiting the arrival of my pistons. The 5S-GTE(Turbo with a 3S-GTE head on 5S-FE block) option is considerably more expensive done properly, but more beneficial. Best bang for buck would be the 5S-FTE, just don't get too greedy and push it past 7 psi on stock internals.

[Guest]

Dude you can run 12 safely

[trentmeyer23]

I know that's what you were running but some think you are crazy :P 7 psi is the the general concensus of a *SAFE* figure, without overstressing components.

[KIRIUS]

hahahaha, i've been on here for a day and seen mick in almost every dudes topics and your usually somewhere behind him xD

taking advice from either of you sounds like a good call to me, wait is that how he "broke" his st185 o.0?

Edited April 30, 2011 by KIRIUS

[trentmeyer23]

hahahaha, i've been on here for a day and seen mick in almost every dudes topics and your usually somewhere behind him xD

taking advice from either of you sounds like a good call to me, wait is that how he broke his celica o.0?

We pretty much stick to the 5S-FE/Camry/Celica threads because we have experience with them and their engines. Mick used to have an ST184 but has now moved on to an ST185 GT4 which WAS less than reliable, but he has been fixing its issues.

[Ethan Gates]

Excellent write up,

thinking about going the full 9 yards and doing the 5sgte still a little undecided tho, may just go with a 5sfte

Mick did you do a write up for the 5sge?

[trentmeyer23]

There was never a 5S-GTE one done, Mick's setup went a bit sour. I actually have his old 3S-GE head. My setup is still on going, I've had the setup running already but without turbo. I am currently at the stage of fitting the turbo. It costs a lot and takes a lot of time but has the advantage of being able to handle more power/boost.

[Ethan Gates]

Sorry, i meant a 5SGE thread, but it may have been on another site,

i had a look at your set up, looking very good :)

makes me want to have a crack.

[trentmeyer23]

A 5S-GE is exactly the same but without the turbo.

[PaulieD]

Nice write up

Edited February 22, 2012 by PaulieD

[sebastiandivita]

There was never a 5S-GTE one done, Mick's setup went a bit sour. I actually have his old 3S-GE head. My setup is still on going, I've had the setup running already but without turbo. I am currently at the stage of fitting the turbo. It costs a lot and takes a lot of time but has the advantage of being able to handle more power/boost.

even though you guy's havent done this but having the head of a 3sgte onto a 5sfe bottom work ? even fitment wise ?

[trentmeyer23]

I have actually done this now, well a 3s-ge head, which is very similar. Still takes a bit of work, however, it is pretty much a bolt on head.

Build starts here:

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/27570-trents-turbo-camry/?p=436762

[Guest]

There was never a 5S-GTE one done, Mick's setup went a bit sour. I actually have his old 3S-GE head. My setup is still on going, I've had the setup running already but without turbo. I am currently at the stage of fitting the turbo. It costs a lot and takes a lot of time but has the advantage of being able to handle more power/boost.

even though you guy's havent done this but having the head of a 3sgte onto a 5sfe bottom work ? even fitment wise ?

No, 3SGTE head is not a direct bolt on, looked into it because I had one of those two.

It is possible to do, but it requires some work on the coolant and water holes on the block from memory.

3S-GE heads are easy and cheap to get and can use 3SGTE cams, etc, so it makes more sense to use one of them.

[trentmeyer23]

Gen1 3S-GE camshafts are actually slighty more aggressive.