"WOW" Toyota Prado 5VZ engine "BLOWN at 58,000km's"

[maba]

Hi,

I own a 2001 Toyota Prado VX with 58,000km's in immaculate condition which has been fully serviced by Toyota since new, the car has never been off road or towed trailers etc. Unfortunately this afternoon the engine has "blown up" and requires reconditioning. I find it very unusual for a car with such a great reputation and kept in immaculate condition mechanically as well as cosmetically to have blown its motor. The last service I had experienced the following scenario, the car was serviced at 54,000km's by Toyota, I picked up the car drove home and noticed a significant amount of fresh oil which leaked on my driveway. I immediately called the service department and they arranged to tow the vehicle back to the dealer to rectify the issue. The question remains was there enough oil in the vehicle for the 25km trip back home from the dealer? Could this have contributed to the engine's damage? Your thoughts/Opinions will be greatly appreciated.

How much would a reco engine be worth?

Maba.

Edited April 1, 2009 by maba

[pinzvidz]

What were the symptoms? Can you be more specific, when you say "blown up", what has actually happened to the engine? Has it spun a bearing, has a piston cracked, has it lost compression in one of the cylinders? Have they done compression tests? Have they removed the head and/or removed the engine, disassembled and inspected? Is there a possibility that the dealer has filled the engine with the wrong grade of oil, before or after the incident on the driveway? Could it be a faulty oil filter (which of course Toyota parts warranty covers engine repairs in that case)? Obviously your engine hadn't run out of oil completely and caused damage initially after the 54K service, considering there was oil all over your driveway. 58K isn't a huge amount of wear. Something sounds really suss with this dealer - they could be out to make a dodgy buck without ascertaining what is exactly wrong with the engine. Very rarely, a part that is faulty from day one (ie from the factory) might take a while to start causing problems, and that could be your scenario here. What's the engine btw, a 2.7, or the V6, or diesel?

Edited December 7, 2008 by pinzvidz

[pinzvidz]

oops double post...

Edited December 7, 2008 by pinzvidz

[chicaboo]

I wonder if they left the engine oil cap off, or only finger tightened the sump plug, and your car slowly drained oil and overheated/siezed on the way home? Without a detailed description of the symptoms prior to your engine blowing up, I doubt you could get any reasonable appraisal from any of us.

Good luck!

Gav.

[maba]

What were the symptoms? Can you be more specific, when you say "blown up", what has actually happened to the engine? Has it spun a bearing, has a piston cracked, has it lost compression in one of the cylinders? Have they done compression tests? Have they removed the head and/or removed the engine, disassembled and inspected? Is there a possibility that the dealer has filled the engine with the wrong grade of oil, before or after the incident on the driveway? Could it be a faulty oil filter (which of course Toyota parts warranty covers engine repairs in that case)? Obviously your engine hadn't run out of oil completely and caused damage initially after the 54K service, considering there was oil all over your driveway. 58K isn't a huge amount of wear. Something sounds really suss with this dealer - they could be out to make a dodgy buck without ascertaining what is exactly wrong with the engine. Very rarely, a part that is faulty from day one (ie from the factory) might take a while to start causing problems, and that could be your scenario here. What's the engine btw, a 2.7, or the V6, or diesel?

Hi,

My appologies re: details posted on the 7th, The engine is a V6 3.4 lt, RACV confirmed the engine had thrown a con-Rod out the side of the engine. There were no symptoms except a loud sound like the engine was crunching metal fragments, then the engine just cut out and oil leaked out. The vehicle is now going into "THE" Toyota Dealer on the 9th December 08 for a full report, then Dealership Management will present the case to Toyota Australia.

Maba,

Edited February 25, 2009 by maba

[chicaboo]

Good luck Maba,

I hope if your dealer is liable, that they don't cover it up. If they won't come to the party, I think it's worthwhile getting your engine replaced at a dealer other than the one that serviced your car (just to be safe). No point rewarding them for their mistake, unless you have no other options?

Cheers, Gav.

[pinzvidz]

Hmmmm... the 3.4 V6s are pretty bullet proof, I find it extremely unusual that a "leg has popped out of bed" at 58K. The only issue these engines ever had was corrosion problems within the cooling system.

Something's not right here - that you had the "oil over the driveway after service" incident at 54K and now this, with the dealer not providing any info re: loss of oil. I would take the matter up with either the general manager or dealer principal if the service department is not going to provide the report. Here's a possible scenario btw - usually a conrod will break away with the gudgeon pin taking a bit of the bottom of the piston with it as a result of the engine being revved the ring out of/constantly flogged at wide open throttle. Not saying all mechanics/apprentices out there do this type of thing, but in the many different dealerships I've worked at over the years, I have seen one or two bad eggs who don't give a flying sh!t about other ppl's property. Maybe this could be the case, combined with the loss or low level of oil prior to the vehicle being given back to you afterwards... maybe it's just simply a defect in the piston and has taken all this time to show up.

Make sure the dealer gets TMCA involved in this - you need to request an out-of-warranty consideration via the dealer. The kms are with you, the age is against you. If the dealer doesn't do anything, ring TMCA's customer assistance centre and ask for help. Good luck!

[maba]

Hmmmm... the 3.4 V6s are pretty bullet proof, I find it extremely unusual that a "leg has popped out of bed" at 58K. The only issue these engines ever had was corrosion problems within the cooling system.

Something's not right here - that you had the "oil over the driveway after service" incident at 54K and now this, with the dealer not providing any info re: loss of oil. I would take the matter up with either the general manager or dealer principal if the service department is not going to provide the report. Here's a possible scenario btw - usually a conrod will break away with the gudgeon pin taking a bit of the bottom of the piston with it as a result of the engine being revved the ring out of/constantly flogged at wide open throttle. Not saying all mechanics/apprentices out there do this type of thing, but in the many different dealerships I've worked at over the years, I have seen one or two bad eggs who don't give a flying sh!t about other ppl's property. Maybe this could be the case, combined with the loss or low level of oil prior to the vehicle being given back to you afterwards... maybe it's just simply a defect in the piston and has taken all this time to show up.

Make sure the dealer gets TMCA involved in this - you need to request an out-of-warranty consideration via the dealer. The kms are with you, the age is against you. If the dealer doesn't do anything, ring TMCA's customer assistance centre and ask for help. Good luck!

Hi,

At this stage the vehicle is at "THE" Toyota dealer and being inspected, I did receive the fax re: the oil leak over the driveway "THE" dealer claims that they forgot to wash the tray under the engine. "It was excess oil" MMMMM!!!! no news yet regarding the engine. The information you have provided is informative and encouraging that I do have a good case to present to Toyota Australia. I will be looking at the "out of waranty consideration via the dealer" as an option. Keep you informed.

Thanks,

Maba

[chicaboo]

Maybe you should take a digital photo of the oil left on the ground and email it to them to assist in their investigation. A bit of spilled oil over the sump shouldn't leave much more than a couple of spots by the time you got home, they must take you for a fool...

My mother's Camry got serviced by some dodgey crowd, and they put the oil filter on DRY, and to top it off they through some sand over the o-ring seal first so it wouldn't ever seal tight! Basically my mum's car was dribbling out oil every day until I got to it and checked aroud the car. They also did something awful to her by telling her she needed a new driveshaft, and then charged her $500 for it. A driveshaft is like $130 off eBay...

Good luck once again,

Gav.

[maba]

Maybe you should take a digital photo of the oil left on the ground and email it to them to assist in their investigation. A bit of spilled oil over the sump shouldn't leave much more than a couple of spots by the time you got home, they must take you for a fool...

My mother's Camry got serviced by some dodgey crowd, and they put the oil filter on DRY, and to top it off they through some sand over the o-ring seal first so it wouldn't ever seal tight! Basically my mum's car was dribbling out oil every day until I got to it and checked aroud the car. They also did something awful to her by telling her she needed a new driveshaft, and then charged her $500 for it. A driveshaft is like $130 off eBay...

Good luck once again,

Gav.

Hi Gav,

I have taken pics of the latest incident which I have filed for future reference, Unfortunately no pics from the last incident at 54k.

Thanks,

Maba

[maba]

Hi

Latest update, THE dealer has put my case forward to Toyota Australia and they have now agreed to the following, They will pay "THE" dealer only two hours labour to check out the damage BUT will not pay the labour to put the engine back together "where does that leave the customer?", not sure exactly what's involved they mentioned removing the sump only. I will be booking an independant inspection on the vehicle to clarify whether Toyota's report coresponds with the independant. Ladies /Gents, if you have experienced any similar issue and you have any advise it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Maba

[pinzvidz]

I'm guessing TMCA are requesting the dealer to pull it down and see what has caused the problem, then they'll make a decision on what they might pay for in an out of warranty situation. Maba, give TMCA customer assistance centre a call to help escalate the issue - 1800 252 097 Mon-Fri. Tell them you're considering buying a new Toyota in a couple of years, but this current issue has put a sour taste in your mouth. They will generally go out of their way to try and keep you happy.

[chicaboo]

That's exactly all I expected from them. Something that will put you potentially in a worse position that you are in now.

I prefer an intact broken engine over a broken engine in pieces sitting in the boot of my car...

I wouldn't agree to them pulling down or removing your engine from the vehicle without first having an agreement for them to put it back.

In a way I think this is exactly what they are trying to achieve, if they make the only offer bad enough, they hope you go away...

At this point I would start looking at exchange engine prices with installation elsewhere, and making a call to TODAY TONIGHT!

Actaully, this exact thing was a case on Today Tonight about 2 years ago. But that was a Hyundai Van thing.

Good luck.

[maba]

I'm guessing TMCA are requesting the dealer to pull it down and see what has caused the problem, then they'll make a decision on what they might pay for in an out of warranty situation. Maba, give TMCA customer assistance centre a call to help escalate the issue - 1800 252 097 Mon-Fri. Tell them you're considering buying a new Toyota in a couple of years, but this current issue has put a sour taste in your mouth. They will generally go out of their way to try and keep you happy.

Hi,

I will definately call first thing Monday morning and present my issue. I was considering upgrading to the new model in the near future, now I am looking at other options due to my experience. New Sportwagon Commodore looks ok, anyhow Toyota will definately influence my decision. Once again thanks for the advise. Keep you informed.

Regards,

Maba

[maba]

That's exactly all I expected from them. Something that will put you potentially in a worse position that you are in now.

I prefer an intact broken engine over a broken engine in pieces sitting in the boot of my car...

I wouldn't agree to them pulling down or removing your engine from the vehicle without first having an agreement for them to put it back.

In a way I think this is exactly what they are trying to achieve, if they make the only offer bad enough, they hope you go away...

At this point I would start looking at exchange engine prices with installation elsewhere, and making a call to TODAY TONIGHT!

Actaully, this exact thing was a case on Today Tonight about 2 years ago. But that was a Hyundai Van thing.

Good luck.

Hi,

I feel the same way as you described. I will be calling TMCA first thing Monday morning as suggested by pinzvidz. Its funny you mentioned Today Tonight. The other day while I was negotiating with the Service Manager he expressed the comment "Take it to a Current Affair or to a Solicitor if you wish". That comment was in-appropriate coming from a "Service Manager" At no point of any conversations we have had did I ever mention A Current Affair.

Regards,

Maba

Edited December 13, 2008 by maba

[chicaboo]

It is very sad that local dealers often make such a bad reflection on the company they are selling and servicing cars for - in this case - Toyota. I've had bad circumstances with Mazda, and my local dealers don't seem any different to yours, and shirk their responsibilities. But it seems to me they clearly don't care if your next car is another Toyota (insert other brand here) or not...

As much as I may like a brand, my experience with a car is often limited to how well I am treated by the dealer. Let's break it down to basic sales ethics: what good is the best product with the worst support??? When I need to ask myself that, that's when I start looking around elsewhere. The worst thing is, we know it's not Toyota's fault, it's your dealer's.

Take care,

Gav.

[pinzvidz]

Maba, how are you going with this? Has Toyota offered to try and help you?

[maba]

Maba, how are you going with this? Has Toyota offered to try and help you?

Hi,

I just got the news today that "THE" dealership had completed their analysis on the car and they have confirmed that it was a thrown conrod and the engine needs to be replaced/reco etc. Apparently they only removed the sump to analyse (strange). They will now apply for an out of warranty Consideration after I have supplied "THE" dealer with all documentation re: service history. I will inform you with more details tommorow night after I have had a lengthy discussion with them.

Regards,

Maba

[chicaboo]

There is already a hole in the block where a conrod has tried to punch it's way out, and they needed to take the sump off to confirm that?

Hopefully you'll get some good news tomorrow Maba,

Gav.

[maba]

There is already a hole in the block where a conrod has tried to punch it's way out, and they needed to take the sump off to confirm that?

Hopefully you'll get some good news tomorrow Maba,

Gav.

Hi,

And to think they wanted to charge me $95 per hour to confirm that!!!! Anyhow Toyota Australia will be making a decision now, hopefully I will have a decision by early Jan 09.

Regards,

Maba

[maba]

FYI,

"THE" Toyota dealer (Located in the North/West of Melbourne) called me today to inform me with the following details,

> The Prado engine will be inspected by The Toyota Australia specialist team to determine the root cause (they are keen to understand why the engine failed). I will then be notified with the outcome.

> Even though I have a full TOYOTA service History in detail, I have been advised that my service history is not looking too good due to the gap between services. This comment is hard to swallow especially being a loyal customer.

> I should have an answer after Christmas.

Regards,

Maba

Edited December 24, 2008 by maba

[pinzvidz]

Gap between services? What intervals did you have it serviced at? Providing you've had it serviced every (or close to) 10,000km, you should be pretty right. I think a worst case scenario would be they'd decline your request for out of warranty assistance if you had missed 3 or 4 services in a row. Obviously not the case here of course...

[maba]

Gap between services? What intervals did you have it serviced at? Providing you've had it serviced every (or close to) 10,000km, you should be pretty right. I think a worst case scenario would be they'd decline your request for out of warranty assistance if you had missed 3 or 4 services in a row. Obviously not the case here of course...

Hi,

My services were all scheduled around the 10,000k intervals starting from 1500k, 10,000k, 21,000k, 32,000k, 44,000k and 54,000k. I have clear detailed service records which were presented to the dealership last week. I still cant believe "THE" dealership made the statement!!!!! What more can the customer do to remain loyal? Now I am starting to think is it worth taking the vehicle to the dealership for future servicing?

Can you believe that Toyota Australia expected me to have completed 14 services at 58,000klm's!!!!!!!! thats a service every 4,100klm's.

I should have a result by mid next week. will keep you posted. Thanks again for your help.

Regards,

Maba

Edited March 19, 2009 by maba

[pinzvidz]

No problems there, that servicing is fine. If you'd missed a few services, then they'd have grounds to decline your request for assistance.

[Guni]

Having just gone through the posts, the dealership will from my experience say its your fault in more than the languages spoken on earth.

They have apprentice-s servicing your car which from an experience of a friend of mine on this forum, has not change the sparks at the 80,000 service like they were meant to even though he was charged for it and has not replaced a "faulty" rear brake light even though stated on the invoice. Now should his engine give way and for whatever reason and is found that the sparks "were the cause" and hasn't been replaced even though it says on their very own invoice, bye bye warranty and also compensation!!!!

Just my 2 cents. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

That is one of the reason why i get my service done by a mechanic whom I trust to use genuine parts toyota parts if need be. Warranty shouldn't be voided even if you visit your local mechanic who get it service by the book, according to the book and using genuine toyota parts.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.