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#1 Blind Kid Seeks

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 04:51 PM

Hey guys..

Has anyone ever, or knows anyone that has hooked up a Microtech MT8 to their Sportivo??

I know the hvae Vtec Control... so would in effect be able to control the LIFT point too.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Andy.

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#2 CHA54

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 04:59 PM

switching lift is easy, closed loop vvt cam control is not.

It would be worth looking into ECU's like the Adaptronic (has the correct trigger support for 2zz, closed loop cam control, wideband input for fuel tuning etc), Vipec V44 (Ray Hall's replacement for the Autronic's he used to distribute/support, also has ZZ trigger support and closed loop VVT cam control), Autronic or Motec.

It's not worth putting an aftermarket ECU on the 2ZZ if it can't control the vvt cam properly.

For adaptronic you're probably looking at paying ~$1200, Vipec V44 is ~$1600, Autronic over $2K, probably around $3K for a motec that can handle vvt etc.

The Adaptronic "Super ECU" is currently in Beta testing but that will be more expensive than a Vipec V44 when released from what I've been told and it's really overkill for just a 2zz.

Edited by rollamods, 18 September 2008 - 05:02 PM.


#3 Blind Kid Seeks

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 05:02 PM

switching lift is easy, closed loop vvt cam control is not.

It would be worth looking into ECU's like the Adaptronic (has the correct trigger support for 2zz, closed loop cam control, wideband input for fuel tuning etc), Vipec V44 (Ray Hall's replacement for the Autronic's he used to distribute/support, also has ZZ trigger support and closed loop VVT cam control), Autronic or Motec.

It's not worth putting an aftermarket ECU on the 2ZZ if it can't control the vvt cam properly.



what about emanage Ultimate?

#4 CHA54

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 05:07 PM

I've got an emanage ultimate sitting here on my desk, haven't bothered to hook it up to anything yet...

I haven't heard of any success stories yet from people using an ultimate and a vmanage to try and control the 2zz vvt and lift. Only real downfall with the emanage solution is you're still stuck with the stock toyota knock control which can be a little sensetive at times.

Adaptronic has knock input for logging purposes like a powerfc, the higher end Vipec V88 has knock input and basic knock control for the ignition. A V88 is also overkill for a 2zz, I have one on my forester and could have easily done the same with a V44, but I'll be chaning to a different motor down the track that needs the extra injector and ignition drivers.

#5 Blind Kid Seeks

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 05:11 PM

I've got an emanage ultimate sitting here on my desk, haven't bothered to hook it up to anything yet...

I haven't heard of any success stories yet from people using an ultimate and a vmanage to try and control the 2zz vvt and lift. Only real downfall with the emanage solution is you're still stuck with the stock toyota knock control which can be a little sensetive at times.

Adaptronic has knock input for logging purposes like a powerfc, the higher end Vipec V88 has knock input and basic knock control for the ignition. A V88 is also overkill for a 2zz, I have one on my forester and could have easily done the same with a V44, but I'll be chaning to a different motor down the track that needs the extra injector and ignition drivers.


JP:

so would the Ultimate allow the VVT control to work? i'm not plannign on modding the rest of the engine apart from headers... and cat back later on in the peice.... so would the knock control still be an issue?

and how much would an adaptronic system be for use in the 2zz? am i better off just sticking to PowerFC

Edited by Blind Kid Seeks, 18 September 2008 - 05:13 PM.


#6 CHA54

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 05:41 PM

if all you want to do is control lift and vvt, then maybe a camcon is worth looking at..

Knock control is usually an issue when you're trying to run too much additional timing over the stock ECU timing map with the emanage, that's why it's best tuned while monitoring the stock ECU ignition advance and knock with a scantool. Once the ECU detects knock it pulls ALL the ignition advance out to protect the engine.

For Adaptronic, the pricing from their website states:

Engine Management
Adaptronic e420c ECU (does not include loom) - $990.00

Looms - Flying

0.5m loom - $66.00

MAP sensors (includes plug)

1 Bar - $77.00


I'd also grab a 1ZZ ECU from the wreckers and hack the ECU connector out of it so you can make a "plug-in" loom for the ECU, then no modifications or messing around is required with the stock ECU harness or plugs.

I've just done the same with my forester when replacing the plug-in Autronic SM4, purchased a flying loom, ECU socket (same socket as 1zz and 2zz co-incidentally) and wired up a patch loom. Link in NZ sell "Headerlink" boards which are basically the ECU socket soldered to a PCB with holes in it to accept aftermarket ECU flying looms, they're much easier than soldering to individual ECU socket pins and then covering each join with heatshrink etc.

I purchased a 0.5m loom with my last adaptronic with the intention of making up a plug-in loom for the adaptronic on 1ZZ with some of the spare wrecker ecu's I've got, but too many projects on the go at the moment to get that one finished anytime soon :P

for what a patch loom ends up looking like, here's the one I made for my forester: http://users.tpg.com...ished_loom1.jpg

It's only that long as I've got the ECU mounted in my glovebox and the stock engine loom plugs are on the floor of the passenger footwell, the two extra plugs are for external Intake Air Temp sensor, 7bar Map sensor and Wideband o2 input. The patch loom could be much shorter in a 1zz/2zz corolla due to the engine loom plug locations. You would also program the adaptronic to run with the MAF, but it's easier with a 1bar map sensor. The MAF would be retained though to make use of the IAT built into it. If you get rid of the MAF completely then you would have to add an intake air temp sensor to the inlet piping too. I'm using a Toyota 1JZ intake air temp sensor with the adaptronic on my mrs's turbo 20V.


For a 2zz you'd have to do most of the map from scratch, a base ignition map could be cobbled together from the 2zz PFC base map or Kaizen Garage's Beams 3SGE adaptronic map, but that's a starting point only, the adaptronic has adaptive fuel tuning so that part's not too hard to get right. There would be a fair amount of dyno time involved getting the timing and vvt map just right.

The emanage solution is much easier/faster in that respect.

#7 Blind Kid Seeks

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 06:09 PM

i swear that you are a gift from the gods (toyota gods that is..)

JP.... thanks so much for your help...

In short though... will the Emanage Ultimate be ableto work with the Stock ECU to give me the control i need to adjust the lift point and still play with a bit of timing and finish it off through the A/F mixes?

#8 CHA54

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 06:15 PM

emanage can do timing and AF no worries, I haven't bothered to check how the stock ECU will react when you go playing with the lift trigger though.

Edited by rollamods, 18 September 2008 - 06:28 PM.


#9 xoom

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 09:56 PM

off the top of mind u would need to hook up the emanage with the vmanage in order to control lift ...... the emanage will take care of ignition timing and fuel where as the vmanage will be needed to take care of the cam timing and lift ...... as JP said the other combination is to go emanage with camcon ..... now both of these combo's have been tried by a fair few people over in the US ..... and there has been a very very very high fail rate of actually getting it all going and functioning properly ...... and the few that might have got it going never end up coming back to respond as to whether they got it going or not ..... in short i dont think ive heard of a single successful implementation of the emanage/vmanage combo ....... i have read of a few emanage/camcon combos on 9thgencorolla but all came back to mention little quirks that they found in doing this ......

now that part aside just bear in mind you've bought 2 piggy backs ..... going to have them both mounted along with your stock ecu ....... as JP mentioned look into hacking and making some sort of loom because otherwise wiring is just gonna be an absolute mess ........ also off the top of mind both the unit are going to set u back i would say around the $1K mark ....... personally ...... i'd just get a hold of a PFC and stop the mucking around ...... but then again its really up2 u ....... if ur up for a bit of an electronics challenge then go for it.

#10 matt_glad

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 06:43 AM

The camcon does not change the lift only the cam angle vvt it also will adjust fuel under wot (wide open throttle) its not bad if your going to only minimal engine mods.

This is never going to be as good a full engine management system.

What you want to do it drop the lift point this will get rid of a bad dip in the 2zzge power band.
The two ecus which are most commonly being used is power fc and hydra they come with a map ready to drive and will only need a fine tune.
Link g4 is also an option http://www.linkecu.com/products and has a self tuning feature.

Edited by matt_glad, 21 September 2008 - 06:49 AM.


#11 CHA54

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 07:12 AM

fwiw, Link G4 Storm = Vipec V44, Link G4 Xtreme = Vipec V88

#12 SILVABULLIT

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 01:43 PM

The camcon does not change the lift only the cam angle vvt it also will adjust fuel under wot (wide open throttle) its not bad if your going to only minimal engine mods.

This is never going to be as good a full engine management system.

What you want to do it drop the lift point this will get rid of a bad dip in the 2zzge power band.
The two ecus which are most commonly being used is power fc and hydra they come with a map ready to drive and will only need a fine tune.
Link g4 is also an option http://www.linkecu.com/products and has a self tuning feature.



Good ported headers and a CES catback eliminate the dip before lift. Seen many a graph to prove it.

As Bill said go with the simpliest option otherwise your glovebox will end up being a sparrows nest of wiring and ecu plugs :lol:

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