Land Cruiser 200 - 6 Speed Auto

[Towering]

I am about to seal a deal to buy a Sahara 200 Diesel with 6 Speed Auto. Small problem is that Saturdays Herald-Sun (Melb) had a article which claimed that the 6th Gear would only engage at speeds above 120 kph. Therefore fuel economy on Highway was around 13.1/100.

Is this a problem that others are aware of?

[Taka]

I heard that before! In fact I think it is from the dealer. And a German said that in one of his article, when he borrow a car in Australia to drive... may be it is the same one.

BTW I think you can use the manual one to engage any gear? Can you just use manual mode and force it into 6th on highway?

I am so jealous man. Can you get one Sahara diesel under $100K driveaway?

[Towering]

I heard that before! In fact I think it is from the dealer. And a German said that in one of his article, when he borrow a car in Australia to drive... may be it is the same one.

BTW I think you can use the manual one to engage any gear? Can you just use manual mode and force it into 6th on highway?

I am so jealous man. Can you get one Sahara diesel under $100K driveaway?

The article also said that 6th would not engage in manual until 120 kph as well.

As a matter of interest - with Tow Pack, Head and Bonnet protectors and rear sensors - $100,121 and he said he would drop off the $121 - plus give free Floor mats and right side weather shield - you reckon that is a competative price????

[Taka]

Sounds like you have a good deal there. I am jealous!

[Captain Kaos]

I also have heard this but turned it into a good excuse to set cruise control to 122kph to enjoy 6th gear (if I had one).I do many long distance trips in a multitude of different vehicles and in NSW (infact anywhere except VIC) I always set CC to 120 in the 110 zones and go through many radars without being looked at. Most of the time my GPS indicates that my speedo is 3 to 4 Ks quicker than I'm actually going so 120 on the speedo is only 116 on my GPS therefore theoretically 122kph is still within the 10% speedo error range,no cops look twice at you (except to admire the car ) and you get to engage 6th gear.Problem solved as long as you dont run into too many big hills. :D

[ConeHead]

I am about to seal a deal to buy a Sahara 200 Diesel with 6 Speed Auto. Small problem is that Saturdays Herald-Sun (Melb) had a article which claimed that the 6th Gear would only engage at speeds above 120 kph. Therefore fuel economy on Highway was around 13.1/100.

Is this a problem that others are aware of?

I have just purchaced a LC 200 GXL TTD, (which I should get in about 10 days). When I took the car for a test drive, 110-115 seemed to be the magic speed for 6th gear to engage.

I wonder if this is a programing issue or just ment for freeway driving.??

Edited January 27, 2008 by ConeHead

[Towering]

I am about to seal a deal to buy a Sahara 200 Diesel with 6 Speed Auto. Small problem is that Saturdays Herald-Sun (Melb) had a article which claimed that the 6th Gear would only engage at speeds above 120 kph. Therefore fuel economy on Highway was around 13.1/100.

Is this a problem that others are aware of?

I have just purchaced a LC 200 GXL TTD, (which I should get in about 10 days). When I took the car for a test drive, 110-115 seemed to be the magic speed for 6th gear to engage.

I wonder if this is a programing issue or just ment for freeway driving.??

Thanks Conehead - Hope it is 110 kph or a little less with so many 100kph roads around, particularly in Victoria where taking liberties of more than 2kph can be very expensive.

Those who suggest using NSW and other states 10% over the limit OK in Victoria do not understand the Viccy system or 2665 speed cameras

[CAP]

I would ask the dealer if there would be a fix for this. It's crazy for it not to engage 6th until over 110. It means it would be useless here. They should be able to rectify them via a change to the settings

[biing]

My LC200 diesel will shift to 6th on the highway at about 115kmh so long as the highway is not on an incline and I am not towing anything.

It's actually a double overdrive. 4th gear is direct drive 1:1 ratio, 5th is overdrive at about 0.75:1 and 6th is the 2nd overdrive at about 0.58:1

This is why the petrol LC200 can't have this particular 6 speed auto because it cannot (like all petrol engines) generate enough torque to drive 6th gear at such high ratios at 1600rpm which is the engine speed at 110kmh.

Even in the diesel 6th gear will not be used much.

Biing

I am about to seal a deal to buy a Sahara 200 Diesel with 6 Speed Auto. Small problem is that Saturdays Herald-Sun (Melb) had a article which claimed that the 6th Gear would only engage at speeds above 120 kph. Therefore fuel economy on Highway was around 13.1/100.

Is this a problem that others are aware of?

[Towering]

My LC200 diesel will shift to 6th on the highway at about 115kmh so long as the highway is not on an incline and I am not towing anything.

It's actually a double overdrive. 4th gear is direct drive 1:1 ratio, 5th is overdrive at about 0.75:1 and 6th is the 2nd overdrive at about 0.58:1

This is why the petrol LC200 can't have this particular 6 speed auto because it cannot (like all petrol engines) generate enough torque to drive 6th gear at such high ratios at 1600rpm which is the engine speed at 110kmh.

Even in the diesel 6th gear will not be used much.

Biing

Thanks Biing - Does this mean that you are NOT approaching the suggested 10/100 fuel economy and so the advertising should be 13/100 or thereabouts.

Would that be right??

I am about to seal a deal to buy a Sahara 200 Diesel with 6 Speed Auto. Small problem is that Saturdays Herald-Sun (Melb) had a article which claimed that the 6th Gear would only engage at speeds above 120 kph. Therefore fuel economy on Highway was around 13.1/100.

Is this a problem that others are aware of?

[biing]

Does this mean that you are NOT approaching the suggested 10/100 fuel economy and so the advertising should be 13/100 or thereabouts.

Would that be right??

Right in some respects.

the advertising does say that fuel consumption will change due to driving style, conditions etc etc.

Quoted 10L per 100km (average) is the consumption reached when tested to ARD specifications. But Real world driving - I have achieved 13L/100km when I am the only occupant and driving on highway (when 6th gear will be used from time to time). Around town I will get 15L/100km. But sometimes I can get 5L/100km sometimes 30L/100km. In the end the average fuel consumption is the most important.

There is nothing magic about fuel consumption. A VW Golf 2.0L TDi has an engine about half LC200, weighs half of LC200 and actually gets about 5L/100km on highway, 6-7L/100km around town - which is about half the LC200. Nothing magical. If someone quotes some amazing figures it is usually dodgy. If it sounds too good to be true....

Biing

[ConeHead]

I just filled my LC 200 up (first fill from new) and I got an average of 18.19L / 100 km. This was mostly stop start city driving with very little HWY driving. I have to admit, I really enjoy the acceleration......

Anyway, I happened to chat to the service manager of my Toyota Dealership (where I bought the car from) and he told me NOT to expect to get near the quoted fuel consumption figure UNTIL the engine (TTD) has at least 5000 - 10000KM's on it, and more if you 'baby' the engine.

Apparently they need to 'loosen up' a bit.

Oh...did I say how much I enjoyed the acceleration.......

Edited February 11, 2008 by ConeHead

[Towering]

I just filled my LC 200 up (second fill from new) and I got an average of 18.19L / 100 km. This was mostly stop start city driving with very little HWY driving. I have to admit, I really enjoy the acceleration......

Anyway, I happened to chat to the service manager of my Toyota Dealership (where I bought the car from) and he told me NOT to expect to get near the quoted fuel consumption figure UNTIL the engine (TTD) has at least 5000 - 10000KM's on it, and more if you 'baby' the engine.

Apparently they need to 'loosen up' a bit.

Oh...did I say how much I enjoyed the acceleration.......

Thanks Conehead and Biing - Just received a call today to say my new 200 will arrive at the dealers on 29/2 - Looking forward to it, having had a sedan for the past 20 months I really missed the 4WD - The stupidity is that I had 6 cruisers/Lexus4WD before I made the mistake of thinking that a sedan would be good.

Have a good weekend

[Dave K]

Have a 2 week old 200 TDV8 can with mainly rural driving can only get 15l/100, the 10.3 quoted is bull****, even 1 up at 80kmh can only get 13l/100km. But dont care, best car even owned, had 2 x 100 series TD as well, awesome power, build quality and only two issues for my NZ spec VX model, (which must be Aussie spec as has Aussie manual)

No accessory power outlet in back and cant use the DVD / Sat Nav box to connect to TV tuner or Ipod, and dont buy black its a nightmare for showing dust and its big to clean. By the way $101k drive away NZ peso's for VX grade, every but no leather, KDSS and rear climate control, wasnt worth extra 15K

[Taka]

Nice ...

how much is petrol and diesel in NZ?

[ConeHead]

I am about to seal a deal to buy a Sahara 200 Diesel with 6 Speed Auto. Small problem is that Saturdays Herald-Sun (Melb) had a article which claimed that the 6th Gear would only engage at speeds above 120 kph. Therefore fuel economy on Highway was around 13.1/100.

Is this a problem that others are aware of?

Ok. Just took my 200 V8 TTD for its first spin down the highway. I have to say that I was impressed. This is the first big run I had in it.

I had the cruise set at about 105 kph and the tranny changed happily between 5th and 6th as the road conditions changed.

Im VERY impressed.

[Towering]

I am about to seal a deal to buy a Sahara 200 Diesel with 6 Speed Auto. Small problem is that Saturdays Herald-Sun (Melb) had a article which claimed that the 6th Gear would only engage at speeds above 120 kph. Therefore fuel economy on Highway was around 13.1/100.

Is this a problem that others are aware of?

Ok. Just took my 200 V8 TTD for its first spin down the highway. I have to say that I was impressed. This is the first big run I had in it.

I had the cruise set at about 105 kph and the tranny changed happily between 5th and 6th as the road conditions changed.

Im VERY impressed.

Conehead - You are making me salivate - I still have to wait until about the 3 or 4th March to pick it up - At the dealer 29/2. Currently I am envious, then we can both skite - All the best with the 200

[ConeHead]

I am about to seal a deal to buy a Sahara 200 Diesel with 6 Speed Auto. Small problem is that Saturdays Herald-Sun (Melb) had a article which claimed that the 6th Gear would only engage at speeds above 120 kph. Therefore fuel economy on Highway was around 13.1/100.

Is this a problem that others are aware of?

Ok. Just took my 200 V8 TTD for its first spin down the highway. I have to say that I was impressed. This is the first big run I had in it.

I had the cruise set at about 105 kph and the tranny changed happily between 5th and 6th as the road conditions changed.

Im VERY impressed.

Also, I forgot to say this before, I have traveled 500km on the current tank of fuel, and the fuel gauge is still above the 1/2 mark. close to 1/3 used.

[Dave K]

Nice ...

how much is petrol and diesel in NZ?

NZ $1.69 Regular petrol

NZ $1.19 Diesel + $39 /1000km Road User Tax (based on Odometer ;) )

Usually can get 10c /L discount with supermarket voucher

Also many new Jap import 4.7's LC200's on Trademe (our ebaY) from NZ $89k

[Taka]

NZ $1.69 Regular petrol

NZ $1.19 Diesel + $39 /1000km Road User Tax (based on Odometer ;) )

Usually can get 10c /L discount with supermarket voucher

Also many new Jap import 4.7's LC200's on Trademe (our ebaY) from NZ $89k

How come the NZ government is much smarter than ours.... now that both governments are run by women... (at least one is and the other looks like one)... we should have cheap diesel.

[melvinlau]

hey guys,

the official figure from Toyota is 94 kmph for 6th gear to engage in PERFECT conditions, so i would imagine in read life it would be around the 100 - 105 kmph everyone is experiencing.

Toyota's reason for the long 6th gear is obviously not for Australia but more for the euro market where the 6th gear will make a difference on the autobahn.

[pinzvidz]

Give Toyota a little time before they crumble in to customer pressure and end up issuing a software update via IT2 to change the auto shift characteristics.

[olut]

Landcruiser V8 Diesel 6-speed Automatic Transmission

Hi,

I am new in this forum, I am from Austria in Europe and own the new Landcruiser since February 18th. From the beginning I was disappointed about the gearbox behavour, shifting gears from one to two and two to three never below 2000 Rpm (even at throttle less than 10%), no lockup function in 4th gear below 90km/h, no lockup function in 5th gear below 90km/h and no 6th gear available below 125km/h.

My dealer wanted to buy back my vehicle without even trying to understand my complaints, but he also wanted to cut off all the extras I have ordered for this vehicle, that would have created a net loss of more than €10.000,-- ; that is certainly too much to be a beta tester for Toyota.

Since this time I am fighting a terrible battle with Toyota Japan and Toyota Motors Europe, they are masters of ignorance of customers complaints, but now, the pressure is getting critical. Because my vehicle needs 40% more fuel at "just rolling" than published and certified by Toyota Motors, I do have a legal arm to force Toyota to modify the gearbox software. However, the next step is an official test by Toyota Motors Europe and then, possibly at court.

Here some return mails I got from Japan:

Our Ref. NCR-0035609-07-E

March 25, 2008

To: Mr. Albert Welledits

cc: TMME Company, TME

From: Tetsuya Otani, Customer Relations Division, TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION

Dear Mr. Welledits:

Thank you for your email of March 18th and 22nd, 2008.

Fist of all, please accept our apologies for the delayed in reply.

We have confirmed your concerns with our technical department. We would

like to answer following four questions.

1: Gearshift from one to two and two to three never happened under 2000rpm,

even when throttle is opened 10% or less.

(Answer) According to our design spec, gear shifts one to two, two to three

at 2000rpm when throttle is opened 10% or less. Therefore we are not able to

judge the situation that you mentioned.

2: There is no converter lock up system in 4th gear

(Answer) The lockup function would operate according to driving conditions;

therefore we estimate the situation that you mentioned might happen.

3: there is no converter lock up system at 5th gear at the speeds lower

than 90km/h.

(Answer) Lockup function does not operate at the speeds lower than 90km/h,

therefore we estimate the situation that you mentioned might be normal

according to our design spec.

4: there is no 6th gear available when the car drives under 125km/h

(Answer) 6th gear does not operate at the speed lower than 125km/h;

therefore, we estimate the situation you mentioned might be normal.

We answered above questions based on your email information. There were

other concerns in your message; however, it is difficult to answer all of

your concerns. We would like to ask you to understand that our distributor

in your country “Toyota Frey” and Toyota Motor Europe NV/SA are

responsible for all customer’s concerns in your country. They will contact

you soon to inspect your veheicle again.

Although you requested us to modify software of automatic transmission of

your vehicle at your email, if our distributor “Toyota Frey” and Toyota

Motor Europe NV/SA judged your car as normal, we could not accommodate your

request. However We have taken the liberty of circulating your comments

among related divisions for their information. Please be assured that we

are committed to producing the highest quality vehicles in the world.

We are sorry that we cannot meet your request, however we would appreciate

your kind understanding on this matter.

Tetsuya Otani

Group Manager

Overseas Operations Dept.

Customer Relations Division

TO/tm

President Tasashi Arashima of Toyota Motors Europe did not respond at all, from Toyota Motors Europe I did not get a single reply. This ignorance is unbelieveable. The only chance to increase pressure to Totoya is, when the vehicle does not match fuel consumption figures as claimed by Toyota to force Toyota to make necessary adjustment. With his Bull****-Software lower fuelconsumption rates never can be achieved.

Best Greetings from the Heart of Europe

and then this

Our Ref. NCR-0035609-08-E

March 28, 2008

To: Mr. Albert Welledits

cc: TMME Company, TME

From: Tetsuya Otani, Customer Relations Division, TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION

Dear Mr. Welledits:

Thank you for your email of March 26, 2008.

We are sorry that we did not come up to your expectation.

First of all, we would like to supplement one point that 6th gear does not

operate at the speed less than 125km/h. This condition requires that you

keep accerating. However, once the throttle is off at the speed less than

125km/h and if it becomes at a steady speed, 6th gear will operate. Our

explanation in our previous reply was not sufficient. In any case, your

email has been referred to our distributor “Toyota Frey” and Toyota Motor

Europe NV/SA, and we will ask them to inspect your vehicle again.

Finally, although we repeat our explanation of the software of automatic

transmission, if our distributor “Toyota Frey” and Toyota Motor Europe

NV/SA judged your vehicle as normal, we could not accommodate your request.

We would appreciate your kind understanding on this matter.

Thank you for your taking the time to write.

Best regards,

TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION

Tetsuya Otani

Group Manager

Overseas Operations Dept.

Customer Relations Division

TO/tm

[olut]

hey guys,

the official figure from Toyota is 94 kmph for 6th gear to engage in PERFECT conditions, so i would imagine in read life it would be around the 100 - 105 kmph everyone is experiencing.

Toyota's reason for the long 6th gear is obviously not for Australia but more for the euro market where the 6th gear will make a difference on the autobahn.

Dear Melvin,

In Europe we do not have only "Autobahn" -Highways with no speedlimits. 30% of all german Highways do have no speed limit, the rest is limited to either 120, 100 or even 80km/h (city highways). On all other EC-Countries the Highway Speed limit is 90, 100, 110, 120 or 130km/h and in those countries you get legally no chance to benefit from a 6th gear. That´s why the fuel consumption an 110km/h-Highway is horrendes, the vehicle remains in 5th gear making 2100Rpm.

Every drivers student get told from the beginning, that fuel economical driving also means to shift up into the highest possible gear (at normal driving conditions), this gearbox ignores common sence about it. I drove the LC200 (Sahara in Australia) in the US with the 5.7L V8 Gasoline Engine, same gearbox, but 6th speed engages at 50mph and converter locks immediately. So, these guys could do it but they won´t. I am fighting a terrible battle with Toyota Japan, it looks, they know about the mass but are affraid to loose their face to commit the mistakes. Next week I will sue Toyota Motors Europe (the are the legal arm of Toyota Japan) because of 50% higher fuel consumptions than officially filed for the homolgation process.

Regars

Albert

Edited March 30, 2008 by olut

[ConeHead]

Landcruiser V8 Diesel 6-speed Automatic Transmission

Hi,

I am new in this forum, I am from Austria in Europe and own the new Landcruiser since February 18th. From the beginning I was disappointed about the gearbox behavour, shifting gears from one to two and two to three never below 2000 Rpm (even at throttle less than 10%), no lockup function in 4th gear below 90km/h, no lockup function in 5th gear below 90km/h and no 6th gear available below 125km/h.

My dealer wanted to buy back my vehicle without even trying to understand my complaints, but he also wanted to cut off all the extras I have ordered for this vehicle, that would have created a net loss of more than €10.000,-- ; that is certainly too much to be a beta tester for Toyota.

Since this time I am fighting a terrible battle with Toyota Japan and Toyota Motors Europe, they are masters of ignorance of customers complaints, but now, the pressure is getting critical. Because my vehicle needs 40% more fuel at "just rolling" than published and certified by Toyota Motors, I do have a legal arm to force Toyota to modify the gearbox software. However, the next step is an official test by Toyota Motors Europe and then, possibly at court.

Here some return mails I got from Japan:

Our Ref. NCR-0035609-07-E

March 25, 2008

To: Mr. Albert Welledits

cc: TMME Company, TME

From: Tetsuya Otani, Customer Relations Division, TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION

Dear Mr. Welledits:

Thank you for your email of March 18th and 22nd, 2008.

Fist of all, please accept our apologies for the delayed in reply.

We have confirmed your concerns with our technical department. We would

like to answer following four questions.

1: Gearshift from one to two and two to three never happened under 2000rpm,

even when throttle is opened 10% or less.

(Answer) According to our design spec, gear shifts one to two, two to three

at 2000rpm when throttle is opened 10% or less. Therefore we are not able to

judge the situation that you mentioned.

2: There is no converter lock up system in 4th gear

(Answer) The lockup function would operate according to driving conditions;

therefore we estimate the situation that you mentioned might happen.

3: there is no converter lock up system at 5th gear at the speeds lower

than 90km/h.

(Answer) Lockup function does not operate at the speeds lower than 90km/h,

therefore we estimate the situation that you mentioned might be normal

according to our design spec.

4: there is no 6th gear available when the car drives under 125km/h

(Answer) 6th gear does not operate at the speed lower than 125km/h;

therefore, we estimate the situation you mentioned might be normal.

We answered above questions based on your email information. There were

other concerns in your message; however, it is difficult to answer all of

your concerns. We would like to ask you to understand that our distributor

in your country “Toyota Frey” and Toyota Motor Europe NV/SA are

responsible for all customer’s concerns in your country. They will contact

you soon to inspect your veheicle again.

Although you requested us to modify software of automatic transmission of

your vehicle at your email, if our distributor “Toyota Frey” and Toyota

Motor Europe NV/SA judged your car as normal, we could not accommodate your

request. However We have taken the liberty of circulating your comments

among related divisions for their information. Please be assured that we

are committed to producing the highest quality vehicles in the world.

We are sorry that we cannot meet your request, however we would appreciate

your kind understanding on this matter.

Tetsuya Otani

Group Manager

Overseas Operations Dept.

Customer Relations Division

TO/tm

President Tasashi Arashima of Toyota Motors Europe did not respond at all, from Toyota Motors Europe I did not get a single reply. This ignorance is unbelieveable. The only chance to increase pressure to Totoya is, when the vehicle does not match fuel consumption figures as claimed by Toyota to force Toyota to make necessary adjustment. With his Bull****-Software lower fuelconsumption rates never can be achieved.

Best Greetings from the Heart of Europe

and then this

Our Ref. NCR-0035609-08-E

March 28, 2008

To: Mr. Albert Welledits

cc: TMME Company, TME

From: Tetsuya Otani, Customer Relations Division, TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION

Dear Mr. Welledits:

Thank you for your email of March 26, 2008.

We are sorry that we did not come up to your expectation.

First of all, we would like to supplement one point that 6th gear does not

operate at the speed less than 125km/h. This condition requires that you

keep accerating. However, once the throttle is off at the speed less than

125km/h and if it becomes at a steady speed, 6th gear will operate. Our

explanation in our previous reply was not sufficient. In any case, your

email has been referred to our distributor “Toyota Frey” and Toyota Motor

Europe NV/SA, and we will ask them to inspect your vehicle again.

Finally, although we repeat our explanation of the software of automatic

transmission, if our distributor “Toyota Frey” and Toyota Motor Europe

NV/SA judged your vehicle as normal, we could not accommodate your request.

We would appreciate your kind understanding on this matter.

Thank you for your taking the time to write.

Best regards,

TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION

Tetsuya Otani

Group Manager

Overseas Operations Dept.

Customer Relations Division

TO/tm

WELL.....mine works OK....shifts into 6th at about 100kph. Im also getting 10.4litres per 100 kilometres on the highway and 11-12 litres per 100 kilometres around town. Im happy