Stivo FWD Power Slide

[whitestivo]

Lets stay your in 3rd gear 5000rpm coming down a twisty mountain, and you take too many km's into a corner.

The rear of the car steps out big time,

Do you

A. Correct and apply brakes to slow

B. Apply more power and drive through it

Thoughts?

Whitestivo

[Blind Kid Seeks]

reduce throttle application first... wait for the weight to shift and see if the car will correct.

worst thing you can do in FWD is to drop all the power from the front wheels... it unsettles the car and you get into Lift off oversteer... bset way to correct is re apply a small amunt of throttle to help straighten things out.

My thoughts at least.

[JSTCHLN]

yea i dont think you should touch the brakes and even still dont tap off the accelerater too much as the rear end will still have momentum and will cause it too come out from behind you and get you in all sorts of strife :P

[spillige]

never ever try and apply hard throttle in a fwd to correct your self, especially when the rear steps out all that is going to happen is your wheels will dig in and youll find your self head 1st into a light pole. in a rear wheel drive u can power out of itif your a skilled driver and know what your doing.all u can do is tap the breaks and try and correct the front end with slight throttle if u panic youll also end up in the wall it all comes down to experiance

[SuperDave]

Once safely going in the direction you want to go in apply hard throttle to straighten the car up. The car is oversteering and the one thing front wheel drive cars do is understeer under power, so more throttle will reduce the oversteer. Do not lift off the throttle while oversteering as it will oversteer more. Same with jumping off the throttle just before or at the apex.

If you go to the track some more you will become well versed in controlling lift off oversteer.

Edit: Oh yeah and don't forget opposite [steering] lock to catch and hold the slide if need be; also look in the direction you want to go in, not the tree/wall/kid. Sounds easy but it needs practice. If you are too far gone or feel you don't have the skills to catch a small slide, the EBD does a good job of stopping it from spinning if you just slam the brakes on for an ABS stop, remembering to push the clutch in also.

[DHC09]

Com'on dave. show'em that video at QR on how its done B)

[Supercharged TRD]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I'd thought since my car is Toyota and a FWD as well it should be similar. Around Nebo in my car, the understeering certainly becomes an issue. If I want to power slide, traction control needs to be turned off and I don't dare to do that on a winding mountain road. I've been in some hairy situations before and learnt to let the stability system bail me out.

I've seen people do insane stuff in a FWD before, it certainly takes a lot of skill and practice, and that's what sets us apart from AWD/RWD drivers!

I am looking for someone to teach me how to do a proper Scandinavian flick in my car: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbr1K3uuOPk . It all boils down to me not having the balls to do it and not executing it correctly because I don't dare to drive the car at the limit of control.

I'm really interested in getting my driving techniques improved. Is anyone willing to spend an afternoon with me and coach me? I'll pay you for it

Edited January 19, 2009 by TRD Aurion Owner

[spillige]

Once safely going in the direction you want to go in apply hard throttle to straighten the car up. The car is oversteering and the one thing front wheel drive cars do is understeer under power, so more throttle will reduce the oversteer. Do not lift off the throttle while oversteering as it will oversteer more. Same with jumping off the throttle just before or at the apex.

If you go to the track some more you will become well versed in controlling lift off oversteer.

Edit: Oh yeah and don't forget opposite [steering] lock to catch and hold the slide if need be; also look in the direction you want to go in, not the tree/wall/kid. Sounds easy but it needs practice. If you are too far gone or feel you don't have the skills to catch a small slide, the EBD does a good job of stopping it from spinning if you just slam the brakes on for an ABS stop, remembering to push the clutch in also.

your saying apply hard throttle to correct oversteer, but hes not oversteering hes gone into a slide due to, to much speed entering a corner, remember hes also going down hill so thats made the rear end go into a slide. wouldnt u apply no throttle and hope the front end goes into oversteer to correct the front end. applying throttle should only be used by skilled drivers that know how to use opposite lock

[Hiro]

Once safely going in the direction you want to go in apply hard throttle to straighten the car up. The car is oversteering and the one thing front wheel drive cars do is understeer under power, so more throttle will reduce the oversteer. Do not lift off the throttle while oversteering as it will oversteer more. Same with jumping off the throttle just before or at the apex.

If you go to the track some more you will become well versed in controlling lift off oversteer.

Edit: Oh yeah and don't forget opposite [steering] lock to catch and hold the slide if need be; also look in the direction you want to go in, not the tree/wall/kid. Sounds easy but it needs practice. If you are too far gone or feel you don't have the skills to catch a small slide, the EBD does a good job of stopping it from spinning if you just slam the brakes on for an ABS stop, remembering to push the clutch in also.

your saying apply hard throttle to correct oversteer, but hes not oversteering hes gone into a slide due to, to much speed entering a corner, remember hes also going down hill so thats made the rear end go into a slide. wouldnt u apply no throttle and hope the front end goes into oversteer to correct the front end. applying throttle should only be used by skilled drivers that know how to use opposite lock

Yes, it is oversteer in the sense that the car is turning more than the front wheels are (understeer is the reverse). The cause of it is weight-transfer to the front of the car by applying brakes too late, or simply just lifting off the throttle. This is why it is called "lift-off" oversteer, and is a big problem with FWD cars (they can't power oversteer like RWD cars can, though). The tail gets very light, and makes it easy to swing around.

The way to correct it is to get the front wheels pointed in the right direction and then apply power. This puts the weight back on the rear wheels (or at least neutral balance), and the power through the front wheels will pull the rear into line. Because you are pulling the car by the front wheels, the rear will tend to self-centre under power, compared to a RWD car which will tend to fishtail as you are pushing from the rear.

Think of it this way. Get a block of wood say the size of a brick, and attach a piece of string to the front. Now, pull the string at an angle off-centre to the centreline of the wood. Notice that the block straightens. Now, instead of pulling with the string, push on the back end of the block, also at an angle. You'll notice that the block will tend to spin, or increase it's angle compared to the direction you are pushing it in.

[spillige]

lol i got my oversteer and understeer mixed up, all im saying from my experiance is dont power out of a slide in a fwd doesnt work....

Edited January 19, 2009 by spillige

[Cappuccino]

What i tend to do is....not completely lift the the loud pedal but definitely get off some of the power...counter steer straighten her up and then power on through. (once the car has settled and facing in the right direction)

[Supercharged TRD]

Anyone going to take me up on my offer of a driving lesson? Name your price.....

[chicaboo]

What i tend to do is....not completely lift the the loud pedal but definitely get off some of the power...counter steer straighten her up and then power on through. (once the car has settled and facing in the right direction)

I give you a brown star for answering the question and not getting caught up in the technicalities of it.

Gav.

[SuperDave]

Com'on dave. show'em that video at QR on how its done B)

Please wait a few seconds for Video to Load!

Anyone going to take me up on my offer of a driving lesson? Name your price.....

Your best bet is to go to a skid pan day. That way there is plenty of space and since the track is wet there will be less damage to your tyres.

There are too many videos on the interwebs of people thinking they can drift and just understeer into the gutter

[chicaboo]

That was a really bad time to pick your nose Mr Dave. :P

[Cappuccino]

What i tend to do is....not completely lift the the loud pedal but definitely get off some of the power...counter steer straighten her up and then power on through. (once the car has settled and facing in the right direction)

I give you a brown star for answering the question and not getting caught up in the technicalities of it.

Gav.

Awww what only a brown star! Dam :(

Super Dave very noice power slide!

[whitestivo]

thanks ppl

i can tell you I didn't lift off the juice initially, tried to correct, and it swung back the other direction, and i just nailed the brakes as i was back on bitumen

i appreciate everyone's advice for the next time my mental ability is too far ahead of my physical ability

The car did shudder badly when i locked the abs into affect with the ds2500's, best money i ever spent those brake pads.

superdave, be back at the track in february ready to go. gav, who else is coming, fwd powerslides

whitestivo

[chicaboo]

I might have a go around a track, but I've never driven on a track before, so it would be pretty wild and scary for me. :P

Gav.

[Cappuccino]

thanks ppl

i can tell you I didn't lift off the juice initially, tried to correct, and it swung back the other direction, and i just nailed the brakes as i was back on bitumen

i appreciate everyone's advice for the next time my mental ability is too far ahead of my physical ability

The car did shudder badly when i locked the abs into affect with the ds2500's, best money i ever spent those brake pads.

superdave, be back at the track in february ready to go. gav, who else is coming, fwd powerslides

whitestivo

The thing is everyone can tell you what you need to do. Problem is though when the time comes and the backend swings out, unexpectedly everything that everyone told you on this thread wouldnt matter because your natural reactions will take over. So my advise is maybe get to a couple of skid pans also do a couple of track days and just learn more about your abilities and what you can and cant do as a driver.

[whitestivo]

Saturday sprints, February 21 I think from memory. I'll be out there again.

Normally, it seems to calm me as a driver, as I just don't give a toss anymore on the road.

SuperDave, 67 seconds, that's the goal (ok 67.999, doesn't matter)

I might get plate QR-107, though i'd prefer QR-103...

whitestivo

[Supercharged TRD]

If you guys are doing a track day, I'd be really interested in come if I can.

[SILVABULLIT]

Anyone going to take me up on my offer of a driving lesson? Name your price.....

Next nebo cruise i wouldn't mind taking the aurion for spin up the mountain to see what it behaves like. Plus give you some pointers on safe driving within your limits.

Phil sounds like you need to tie the back of your car down a lil more

Funny how nobody mentioned the use of the handbrake....... LOL

[chicaboo]

Handbrake is for poosays. :P

[SuperDave]

Funny how nobody mentioned the use of the handbrake....... LOL

Or Macca's trays

[One-pager]

How can you use the handbrake if you're counter-steering?