weighted shift knob bad ?

[jaderd]

hey all.

read some threads on the net saying how its bad ofcourse to rest hand on gear knob while driving and ppl have said that a weighted gear knob can have a bad effect also.....the below info is about BMW's now they prob have diff setup etc as opposed to our linkage type ?

Shift Knob No-Nos

Why can't I rest my hand on the shift knob?

Ever wonder why people say that its bad to rest you hand on the shift knob while driving? Well, there is a reason, and good thing you listened!

Within the transmission itself, BMW has a specification of 0.004"-0.006" gap between each gear and the shifter rail in the transmission (for reference, a human hair is approximately 0.0035"). This gap allows for the transmission lubricant to acts as a barrier so that the shifter rail and gear are not directly touching, causing premature wearing of the gear (not syncros), shifter rail, or both.

When you make a 0.001" change at the shift knob and maintain pressure (like resting your hand on the shift knob while driving), the required 0.004"-0.006" gap is closed, preventing the lubricant to ride between the gear and shifter rail. Premature wear of the gear or shifter rail may hamper transmission shifting performance, gear engagement, or worse, require rebuilding or replacement of the transmission.

A recent popular fix for short shifter notchiness is the use of an excessively heavy, metallic shift knob. At only 3 oz. (approximately 100 grams), the factory shift knob is relatively light, in comparison with the available aftermarket knobs. We have analyzed the additional mass of the Rogue Engineering shift knobs (approximately 6 oz.) and have found that they're additional mass was not enough to close the 0.004"-0.006" gap. However, as we began adding more weight to the shift knob area, we did find that when the mass increased to 8 oz., the gap began to close. Using anything heavier than this would be the equivalent of driving with your hand resting on the shift knob. When considering an aftermarket shift knob, consider how much mass it threatens to add. Too much is a BAD thing for your transmission!

A more elegant solution to addressing the effort is the Rogue Engineering Weighted Selector Rod. While stationary, its additional mass does not change the internal dimensions of the 0.004"-0.006" gap, since it's below the leverage point of the shifter. Its additional mass aids in improving the shifter feel without the potentially negative drawbacks of weighted moments on other parts of the shifter mechanism.

Edited July 1, 2009 by jaderd

[Blind Kid Seeks]

i think that this would be an issue on a car with an engin with a North South Orientation (RWD)... where the Transmission is directly under the gear lever.

when your FWD gearbox is next to the engine... i doubt it matters that much. all your doing is resting the weight on the cradle.

but then again.. i could be wrong.

[jaderd]

yeah thats what i was thinking....i read a bit on 8th gen honda forum that it shouldnt be an issue...just thought id check...

BTW you were in my dream last night.....

i spun my car out and smashed it a bit, then you were there and were driving it to see how bad it was......at the same time i was yelling out passenger window chatting to sonya about getting her friend to make a weighted gear knob whilst you took off smoking up the tyres saying all is fine, even though the car seemed to be rolling along like it had square wheels lol

Crazy dream ahahaha

[Blind Kid Seeks]

yeah thats what i was thinking....i read a bit on 8th gen honda forum that it shouldnt be an issue...just thought id check...

BTW you were in my dream last night.....

i spun my car out and smashed it a bit, then you were there and were driving it to see how bad it was......at the same time i was yelling out passenger window chatting to sonya about getting her friend to make a weighted gear knob whilst you took off smoking up the tyres saying all is fine, even though the car seemed to be rolling along like it had square wheels lol

Crazy dream ahahaha

whoa... hahah

intersting..........

pizza at Bimbos soon?

[chicaboo]

I've got a 685 gram large Type R weighted shift-knob with even more weight from 14mm of washers underneath it that hold the leather boot up.

Anyhow, that ~700 gram worth of weight comes at a price. You need to consciously shift softer/slower as the weight of the knob does the work for you.

The worst thing is that if you flick it quickly from 2nd to 1st, it has enough weight to actually go into REVERSE if you use a bit too much side spin. :P

The way you hold the shift-knob changes the feel of the shift too. I find that clasping my hand over the top of it, makes it feel identical to a stock shifter.

However, if you push and pull your shifts, the weight of the shift-knob seems to work more effectively. But my gearbox feels grittier if I shift this way...

I try not to rest the weight of my arm on the shifter. I know this won't particularly hurt my type of shifter, but I think it's a bad habit to do so in the first place.

Gav.

[jaderd]

HHmmm thats fair scary sounding 700g that can almost get out of control for you....i do like the notchy feel of the TWM.....nice and tight.....maybe around 400g might be the go.....what i might do is get onto my sisters BF who is a fitter and turner and see if he can make up maybe two basic knobs weighing around 350-300g and 550-600g and trial them.....ill just get him to run them up neat enough that smooth to touch but no real finishing etc.....so does anyone know the thread pattern toyota shifters use.....i dont know alot about thread types and how they are measured but im guessing someone on here will know 100%

therefore i can give him the thread and the dimension sizes of stock shifter and he may be able to knock me up some

[chicaboo]

Yeah, I need to restrain when shifting with such a heavy unit. Otherwise the shifts sound quite abusively clunky!

Gav.

[jaderd]

I've got a 685 gram large Type R weighted shift-knob with even more weight from 14mm of washers underneath it that hold the leather boot up.

Anyhow, that ~700 gram worth of weight comes at a price. You need to consciously shift softer/slower as the weight of the knob does the work for you.

The worst thing is that if you flick it quickly from 2nd to 1st, it has enough weight to actually go into REVERSE if you use a bit too much side spin. :P

The way you hold the shift-knob changes the feel of the shift too. I find that clasping my hand over the top of it, makes it feel identical to a stock shifter.

However, if you push and pull your shifts, the weight of the shift-knob seems to work more effectively. But my gearbox feels grittier if I shift this way...

I try not to rest the weight of my arm on the shifter. I know this won't particularly hurt my type of shifter, but I think it's a bad habit to do so in the first place.

Gav.

stock shifter though ? or TWM / TRD......if you are with stock shifter i can understand the going towards revers aspect......with a short shifter it seems that would be fair hard as you have to push it a fair bit to get across to reverse

[chicaboo]

stock shifter though ? or TWM / TRD......if you are with stock shifter i can understand the going towards revers aspect......with a short shifter it seems that would be fair hard as you have to push it a fair bit to get across to reverse

Stock shifter yes. There is enough weight there for it to navigate through the push over to the left and find reverse, get past the crunch and fully engage the gear!!!

Gav.

[Blind Kid Seeks]

theres no sychro on reverse.. you'd have to be stationary...

[CHA54]

it's fairly common to find older corolla's with C series FWD boxes where the shifter pops out of gear under accel/decel etc. This is due to people driving while resting their hand on the shifter, wearing the shift detents in the box.

[Kenneth.]

Toyota uses a thread size of M12x1.25.

I have a 440gram Skunk2 'Type R' shift knob. It's great.. makes shifting a lot more enjoyable and smoother. The factory shift knob feels like paperweight against the weighted knob. Get a weighted one, you'll love it! :P

[jaderd]

hmmm just come across this site too....for toyota scion so already threaded for toyotas

seems reasonable prices too..$35 for knobs and + $25 for it to be weighted to around 10-11 ounces (300-330g)

custom made can choose knob and height and weight.....even if postage 40$ still around $90 US to get it to home notbad

http://doctorisotope.com/knobs__handles

Edited July 1, 2009 by jaderd

[jaderd]

cheers with the thread pattern mate.....ill get onto sisters BF and see if he is able to do some .....if not i might get in contact with docotorisotope website...fair cheap

[chicaboo]

theres no sychro on reverse.. you'd have to be stationary...

Not quite. :) No synchro just means it needs a bit of coercing to go into gear if the gears aren't spinning at the right speed, and the weight of the shift-knob has done this to me at a walking/jogging pace 3 times now! :o This is another reason why flicking the shifter with weighted knobs isn't a good idea, too easy to get the wrong gear (just don't fluff the clutch too!).

Gav.

[jaderd]

id grab a short shifter chicaboo.....as its harder to get to reverse then....i can imagine it would move around heaps with 700g and stock throw/height lol....

* i emailed doctorisotope asking about postage to aus post code and also re. organising a chosen weight/knob height (how threaded it is really) and design style....whether they do it via email then raise an invoice via paypal etc....will keep all posted

[chicaboo]

Oh, I have the BKS shift-bearing kit in my car. So the weighted shift-knob with the bearings feels pretty much like stock as far as slop/play goes (maybe a bit better). Lot's of waggle without the bearings in there though!!! :o

Gav.

[jaderd]

short shifter is completely different again....will be alot shorter in throw and atleast the TWM one i can say makes it alot tighter re. pushing into and pulling out of gear, hence why ppl get weighted knobs...and im leaning towards that way...just working out most cost efficient way and what weight to get.....

i will have to have a drive of allex's car as he now has TWM shifter and the 600g type r TWM knob....and i think he has BKS cable selector bushings

ive got TWM shifter TWM cradle bushings and TWM cable bushings.......i got rid of BKS kit that we put in as when we did it we didnt put enough washers in (we were tired from putting in sways etc) and it was fiddly / annoying lol...so at the time when grabbing gunis SS kit i grabbed kenjis cable bushings kit off him and chucked it in. so its all nice and tight now....just a little too tight lol

Edited July 1, 2009 by jaderd

[chicaboo]

Can the cables be tensioned up to adjust the slop/play at the gearbox end? They look like they can, but I have NFI really. :P

Gav.

[Kenneth.]

Oh yeah, it doubles as a self defense weapon.. you could knock some one out cold with a weighted knob.. :o

[whitestivo]

All this for stuff all benefit

Getting the change right is more important than shifting it fast.

whitestivo

[jaderd]

yeah im not too fussed about the shifting it fast.....although already it does feel that you can do slightly faster shifts......it just feels better as in the throw being shorter and also it seems to take away the excess slop and play that the stock one has.....maybe a combination of the cable bushings and solid cradle mounts....its nice and tight and short throw now....just what i have wanted......like andy said....any weighted knob all its weight is just held by the cradle so its no real issue in comparison to other vehicles where gear box directly below stick.....

i await an email from doctorisotope.

[CHA54]

the weighted shift knob will cause your box to wear faster in the FWD corolla configuration. But if you're selling the car in the next couple of years that will be the next persons problem. You can gauge the amount of wear by accelerating and decelerating without the brakes and watching how much the shifter moves.

[chicaboo]

the weighted shift knob will cause your box to wear faster in the FWD corolla configuration. But if you're selling the car in the next couple of years that will be the next persons problem. You can gauge the amount of wear by accelerating and decelerating without the brakes and watching how much the shifter moves.

Is that if you shift fast like a mofo, or continue to do poosay shifts like I do?

Phil: Yeah, the weighted shift knob doesn't seem to help much on cable shifters, since you need to shift softer to componsate for the added weight anyhow... But it works well on solid link shifters (my TX3). At least it's an expensive way to replace the scratched up worn stock gearknob. :o

Gav.

[CHA54]

it's by having the heavier knob installed which places extra pressure on the linkages while cruising/normal driving, the exact sort of wear you cause when driving normally and resting your hand on the shifter... The only wear you'll cause by shifting hard is synchro wear, but that's also fairly common on the C series. The wear caused by just the installation of the knob is on the shift-detents as I stated earlier in this thread.

Edited July 1, 2009 by CHA54