Wat Fair trading had 2 say bout s'tivo issues

[xoom]

Hi Guys,

Just thought i'd let you all know i've had a mechanical inspector from fair trading come out and look at my vehicle just so that i can rest assured and now truely that ive gone to the full legal extent possible to getting all the issues fixed.

What happened: I took the guy out for a drive and yep low and behold really easy to generate issue with selector cables and grinding between gears when reving that high i.e. 5500+ (well not really high for the sportivo :D ). I was then told that even thou the car can be driven in that way to take all the way to lift it is not classified as being "Under normal driving conditions". Normal driving conditions means something like reving 3k-4k and changing gears. As such the issue doesnt affect normal driving condition so really nothing can be done. Now originally when i got the problem yes it was noticable at 3k rpm, but due to the fact that i had cables changed and now its shifted up the rev range to 5500+ then this mean that toyota has "FIXED" the problem for the car under normal driving conditions.

Explination of Problem: The only people saying its the gear selector cables are toyota. Fair trading is taking their word for it and the noise is simply in the harmonics of the vibration of the body down the middle axis of the car through to the gear box. Was told due to it being harmonics over time the problem may go away, change noise, be not as noticable and due to the fact that harmonics are not controllable its easibility to fix isnt "SIMPLE". I asked why it appears on some and not others and manufactorers if this problem occurs on a reasonable number of cars can simply state "DUE TO MASS PRODUCTION" we cannot contain these issues and thats a good enough reason.

What next: The fair trading guy is going to talk to toyota and see if they are going to continue to pursue a fix to try and resolve this issue. SO YES TOYOTA MAY CHOOSE """NOT""" TO FIX THIS. From a legal perspective toyota has "CLEARED" themselves of anything if the current cable doesnt produce the noises "UNDER NORMAL DRIVING CONDITION".

What does this mean: I personally think this is a HUGE COPOUT by toyota TO TRY AND POTENTIALLY USE A LEGAL LOOP HOLE TO NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE OTHERWISE all that can be done is each and every service you do at your dealership you need to ask if toyota has come out with a TSB to fix the problem you may be having. Otherwise there is NOTHING that you can do. OH AND BY THE WAY UNLESS YOU ASK THE QUESTION ABOUT THE FIX EACH SERVICE TOYOTA WILL ""NOT"" INFORM PEOPLE THAT A FIX IS AVAILABLE.

Just my 2 cents worth. So guys i dont think this can go any further than what i have taken it.........

[NIKICH]

What can you say. Its just another case of the big guys can stomp all over the little guys and get away with it

[Blade Hunter]

I don't particularly like the Dept of fair trading, when I had the lanos, it was 24 months old I took it back 25 times for repair, the legal standing?? "Well Mr Donoghue, you have had a lot of problems with it but its a different problem every time so they are doing the right thing in fixing each problem.

[magicmayhem]

Hey want to see what are your opinions about this case, they did say the C-sportivo or runx rsi are the same car and it is direct imported from South Africa,

http://www.tolken.co.za/toyotaforum/viewtopic.php?t=1572

cheers :)

[stoopid head]

thanks for the post magic, its interesting reading.

Brings me to a question - has anyone had their sportivo on a dyno with or without mods?

cheers

m

[J@Se]

Hey guys,

I sometimes get this crunch noise when i change gears..esp, when I change gears in high RPMS...so should i go back to toyota dealer and get it checked out?? Or it's just common wear and tear of a new car?

Other then that, I have been trying to look out for some of the common problems but I've only encountered one so far which is a vibration near the key ignition but after my 1000km service, it seems like the problem has been resolved...well i hope anyway...

Thanks for your response in advance.

Cheers. :D

[sharmz]

I dont see how fair trading is going to help you, and personally I would not want my dealership knowing Ive contacted fair trading, as you can imagine the TLC when they service my car lol

But in anycase, their point is valid, can u imagine takin someone in your car to show them your problems and then revving ur car to 5 or 6K, for us its normal, to them though u look like a freakin idiot because hes actually right, as a standard for all cars, its not normal driving conditions - and it would come across as if your pushing ur car hard.

Like i said, in america, with the celica when dudes where using lift in quantities daily and have some problems, theyd take the car for repairs and would receive the feedback "Theyre not meant to be driven/revved like that".

[peekay]

105.6 KW with CAI and no exhaust mods at wheels. Have done exhaust but as yet untested on Dyno.

[xoom]

actually sharmz the guy i took out from fair trading was a rev head and knew his cars inside and out. So where u say he thinks your pushing your car thats actually incorrect he knew the sportivo was made to rev that hard. My POINT of this all is the fact is the whole concept of buying this car was to drive it all the way through to lift. The sales guys told me to use lift when i was taking it for a test drive @ both dealers i test drove the corolla so the aim is to hook people on driving it that way so now that we are driving it that way as it was SOLD TO US BY TOYOTA and now there is a problem we are told NO NO NO thats not the way u should be driving it as it causes a problem well geez it would have been good to know before signing the dotted line.

[sharmz]

The problem is they say the engine can handle it, but when it comes to servicing and actually driving one, you get the "you shouldnt drive your car like that" lecture. Its really disappointing, if the sportivos got the same thrashing some of the Type R's have received by their owners (esp the older shape) It would be good to see how long they actually lasted, or the celicas even but then in america the celicas seem to kind of manage, kind of <_<

So know that youve cleared up YOUR POINT, where to from here?

[xTiGeRx]

illuminati: 105.6 kw X 1.3 = 137.28 kw @ flywheel.

OMG! it F$#Ken works!!

1.3 = 30% drive train losses.

[xoom]

Where to from here?

Well like i said each service i'll ask if they have a fix. Otherwise i cant do much so i guess i begin with my mods so first up is da exhaust change :D

Oh by the way i had my car up on the dyno yesterday.

102.5 kw ALL STANDARD

subnote

1) i had the bonnet down to emulate driving conditions

2) i had the guy make the cooling fan emulate road conditions rather than cooling the car to get more gains

3) it was bloody 35 degrees

This was all done in shootout mode. The new dyno standard. The guy running the dyno also stated in a few more months when ur engine loosens up even more you probably will get a kw or 2. :D or maybe not if the engine is already completly loose. :(

Conclusion the one run where i altered everything to be in competition style i.e. bonnet up, cooling fan to cool rather than street condition i got 105.3kw @ wheels

Why did i have everything done as indicated in subnote above ? Becasue when ur on the road ur bonnet isnt open, u dont have a cooling fan cooling everything down and generally u dont race in 35 degree heat so yep under those conditions i agree with peekay34 and the figures he got.

[xoom]

also forgot to mention.

i had and engine power estimation run done as well.

it estimated that i had 136kw @ the engine.

Now this isnt 2 bad an estimation considering the following:

1) To actually get the figure of how much power is at the fly wheel would mean u need to get an engine dyno and the guy told me yesterday that would cost u like over a grand as he has had it done to his car.

2) When he had his engine on the engine dyno and when he put it back into his car and ran this estimation via the normal dyno the estimation was about 4% incorrect i.e. the estimation was 4% less than the actual figure so in my case 4% of 141kw approx 5.5kw

so 136 + 5.5 = 141.5 so id say that yep the engine does provide the 141kw as advertised by toyota.

Thought id let you all know incase people are still considering the car doesnt have the power

[BlackRolla]

Hey guys....what's the point in knowing how much power ur car puts out?

The only thing I'm concerened about is if I can beat other cars! :D

Knowing ur car outputs 141KW doesn't mean Sh#t if u'll be beaten by a car with 135KW. It's all about how u race the car! It's all about SKILL! :P

[xoom]

Yes u do have a point there BlackRolla except for 1 little fact

if i put mods on my car i would like to know what i started with originally so that if after putting the mods on i dyno it again i will be able to see whether the mods i have put on have been a worth while investment

[xTiGeRx]

Bill (xoom): definately agree with you! ;)

you need a line in the sand to see how much you've achieved between each mod, to see if it was really worth it. :)

i'll do doing the same thing as you...but i'm going to wait till my engine has loosened up...it's a damn virgin to high-revs at the moment. trying to reach redline..is impossible for me at the moment. <_<

when i installed my exhaust..i realised that i gained 7+kw just from the exhaust.

i would have NEVER known if i didn't do the stock dyno run.

'so....bill..how many kw's did you gain from doing .....blah..blah..."

'i dunno...never dynoed it from stock..'

;) :P ;) :P

m2cw

[BlackRolla]

Yeah I guess ur right but I haven;t modded anything yet. Even if I did mod it how much would it cost to run a dyno and is it worth spending to find out how much extra KW it produced?

Also most mods is for the look and feel isn't it? Does it really matter how much more power it gives??? Can't u just feel it and be satisfied?

what if u mod the car but can't feel any power but the dyno shows an increase in power. Would u be happy just looking at print out of the dyno?

hmmm...I don't know...prob depends on how much the dyno test cost.

:)

[sharmz]

It's all about how u race the car!

repost

[vin diesel/Ja rule - F&F]

[peekay]

When I had mine tested with CAI was an extremly hot day.

[magicmayhem]

Its good to hear our C-sportivo is making similar power to toyota spec, , i feel more relief now :)

cheers

[sharmz]

Its good to hear our C-sportivo is making similar power to toyota spec, , i feel more relief now :)

cheers

so are u being sarcastic?

or are u actually serious?

or are u making fun of whoever is worried about matching the kilowatts to toyota specs?

finally, do u like stuff?

[xTiGeRx]

sharmz: not again! you've confused me :P

[Mr duck]

If the car is not suppose to be driven in lift, Why does it have a lift capable engine fitted?

[BlackRolla]

TO TRICK US INTO USING IT SO THEY CAN SCREW US AROUND!

BLOODY BAST$#DS!

[NIKICH]

Does anyone know how much power the engine has while out of lift??

Is it still the 141KW or is it less?