2009 aurion tax burning oil

[Davewarby]

Hi, new to the forum and I am after some advise. My 2009 aurion is burning massive amounts of oil. I have had the cAr serviced and the dealer told me i had damaged the valve seals by using 5w-30 oil and the engine is now damaged and will need replacing. The car has done 49k in 15months. They then told me it cannot be fixed under warranty and would cost me 18000dollars to replace the engine. If anybody can give advice it would be greatly appreciated as I am a complete numbskull when it comes to cars

[DJKOR]

5W-30 is a suitable oil for this engine, and it even specifies it's use being suitable in the manual. The fact that they lied to you in telling you that is the cause would make me question them further because if they are lying about something like that, it shows that they can't be trusted in their diagnosis. I would either escalate it further or find another dealer to diagnose the real cause.

Unfortunately though, you may run into another problem. Toyota has made a page in the owners manual of the car and there it states that the maximum oil consumption that one can experience is 1 litre every 1000km. I suspect they wrote this to cover their behind. If your engine is using oil up at that rate or slower, there is a good chance they can turn around and say it is normal.

[e240]

Hi, new to the forum and I am after some advise. My 2009 aurion is burning massive amounts of oil. I have had the cAr serviced and the dealer told me i had damaged the valve seals by using 5w-30 oil and the engine is now damaged and will need replacing. The car has done 49k in 15months. They then told me it cannot be fixed under warranty and would cost me 18000dollars to replace the engine. If anybody can give advice it would be greatly appreciated as I am a complete numbskull when it comes to cars

Who did you get the car from? Did you get the car 2nd hand?

Have you followed the service schedule? Who normally does the servicing?

Stating that using 5w-30 would damage the valve seals is indeed odd as the manual recommends using 5w-30 oil.

[Davewarby]

Hi, new to the forum and I am after some advise. My 2009 aurion is burning massive amounts of oil. I have had the cAr serviced and the dealer told me i had damaged the valve seals by using 5w-30 oil and the engine is now damaged and will need replacing. The car has done 49k in 15months. They then told me it cannot be fixed under warranty and would cost me 18000dollars to replace the engine. If anybody can give advice it would be greatly appreciated as I am a complete numbskull when it comes to cars

Who did you get the car from? Did you get the car 2nd hand?

Have you followed the service schedule? Who normally does the servicing?

Stating that using 5w-30 would damage the valve seals is indeed odd as the manual recommends using 5w-30 oil.

Car was brand new. Dealer serviced but missed first service by 5k km. Problem is. Burning oil and masses of blue smoke on start up. When I had it checked out, the service manager told me it was the oil that I had used and also stated that the oil should not need to be topped up between services (which I had been doing regularly) as it should only move down the dipstick by 3 or 4 mm between servicing. Being the first absolutely brand new car I have ever owned I am a little peeved. Thanks for your replies

[e240]

Dealer serviced but missed first service by 5k km.

That could be your archilles heel

Anyway, the manual states 5w-30, and since it was dealer serviced, they should've advised if it were not suitable.

It does sound like your engine did not bed in properly and the bores are glazed.

(on a seperate note, did you baby your engine when you first got it?)

I would however keep hounding them as a. It was dealer serviced, b. the oil is the recommended grade, c. the car was new (and hopefully unmodified?)

I would seriously consider whether or not you took delivery of a car with an inherent defect and keep making this point to the dealer.

I've never had to top up oil inbetween services

[Silver-Aurion]

Highly doubt its the oil. I would put it down to defective engine from the factory.

I'll be using Penrite HPR5 oil in my car next service (which is 5W-40) and I highly doubt this would ruin my engine so I don't see how (5W-30) would ruin a engine as well.

Can you disclose what 5-30 oil you have been using? Company?

Also, you are under service advantage so why did you bother with your own oil? My service advantage has ended so I'll be using my own oil.

[Steven]

I can understand using your own oil - I personally don't see any real world advantages in doing so, however I understand the mentality behind it.

As for the 5k late first service, this could very easily see you undone despite the fact it's highly unlikely it is the cause of the oil use - just simply Toyota trying to use any excuse to void a claim, which considering the expense of this claim I imagine they would squirm out however they can.

They say in the manual that 5w-30 is fine - hence ANY argument that caused the issue is likely to blow up in their faces. I would actually carrying a photocopy of that around in case any smarmy service manager throws it at you.

The best suggestion I would have is have a meeting with your service manager, and be prepared to civilly discuss the matter regardless of what they say. Getting antsy may work with the help, but being fair and reasonable in your claims early on will help you a million fold should the matter even result in a civil claim being made. A meeting will also tie the service manager into a story - if they decide to deny your claim based solely on the oil being used, then they cannot change their reasoning later down the track and as mentioned, the oil theory is easily debunked.

If the late initial service comes into play (if it gets brought up at all, make sure they're the ones who do it and not you. Don't admit anything) then you'd probably need to get professional opinions from qualified, experienced engine builders etc in writing that states whether it's likely to have caused your oil burning problem.

Bit of an information overload, but give it a go and let us know.

[450HP/tonne]

the service manager told me it was the oil that I had used and also stated that the oil should not need to be topped up between services (which I had been doing regularly) as it should only move down the dipstick by 3 or 4 mm between servicing.

What was the procedure you used for checking the oil level before you added more? Starting from "I got up in the morning and ..."

The reason I ask is to see if the below quote is true (obviously only when it comes to cars and intended in the nicest way):

... I am a complete numbskull when it comes to cars

Edited July 22, 2010 by 450HP/tonne

[legend_of_lazz]

Dealer serviced but missed first service by 5k km.

That could be your archilles heel

Anyway, the manual states 5w-30, and since it was dealer serviced, they should've advised if it were not suitable.

It does sound like your engine did not bed in properly and the bores are glazed.

(on a seperate note, did you baby your engine when you first got it?)

I would however keep hounding them as a. It was dealer serviced, b. the oil is the recommended grade, c. the car was new (and hopefully unmodified?)

I would seriously consider whether or not you took delivery of a car with an inherent defect and keep making this point to the dealer.

I've never had to top up oil inbetween services

My car missed its first service entirely, it's an ex rental and Hertz may have been lazy. It's just about to hit 60K on the my 2007 Sportivo and it runs beautifully, haven't had a single issue since day one. Then again, I could just be lucky but I hope this didn't cause it in your case.

[e240]

My car missed its first service entirely, it's an ex rental and Hertz may have been lazy.

I could be generalising but it could be demonstrators, ex-rentals seem to have less issues cause they're mostly driven harder from the start.

Mine's a ex-demo as well, 70K km on the clock and no issues..

[DJKOR]

I could be generalising but it could be demonstrators, ex-rentals seem to have less issues cause they're mostly driven harder from the start.

Mine's a ex-demo as well, 70K km on the clock and no issues..

Just like how my last Aurion was ex-rental and it was going pretty damn strong.

[Buff Hamster]

My ex-rental Aurion missed out on the 15000km service but it was fine.

Just a question. How did you run the car in the first 10000km? Snail pace or mid rev or Hot rod style? Were you driving at a constant speed for a long period of time?

[Silver-Aurion]

I thought an Aurion TAX would be burning money, not oil!

Sorry, I just had to :P

[CONROD]

I can understand using your own oil - I personally don't see any real world advantages in doing so, however I understand the mentality behind it.

As for the 5k late first service, this could very easily see you undone despite the fact it's highly unlikely it is the cause of the oil use - just simply Toyota trying to use any excuse to void a claim, which considering the expense of this claim I imagine they would squirm out however they can.

They say in the manual that 5w-30 is fine - hence ANY argument that caused the issue is likely to blow up in their faces. I would actually carrying a photocopy of that around in case any smarmy service manager throws it at you.

The best suggestion I would have is have a meeting with your service manager, and be prepared to civilly discuss the matter regardless of what they say. Getting antsy may work with the help, but being fair and reasonable in your claims early on will help you a million fold should the matter even result in a civil claim being made. A meeting will also tie the service manager into a story - if they decide to deny your claim based solely on the oil being used, then they cannot change their reasoning later down the track and as mentioned, the oil theory is easily debunked.

If the late initial service comes into play (if it gets brought up at all, make sure they're the ones who do it and not you. Don't admit anything) then you'd probably need to get professional opinions from qualified, experienced engine builders etc in writing that states whether it's likely to have caused your oil burning problem.

Bit of an information overload, but give it a go and let us know.

Davewarby, on 22 July 2010 - 11:54 AM, said:

Hi, new to the forum and I am after some advise. My 2009 aurion is burning massive amounts of oil. I have had the cAr serviced and the dealer told me i had damaged the valve seals by using 5w-30 oil and the engine is now damaged and will need replacing. The car has done 49k in 15months. They then told me it cannot be fixed under warranty and would cost me 18000dollars to replace the engine. If anybody can give advice it would be greatly appreciated as I am a complete numbskull when it comes to cars

Mate from what you have stated I would have to agree and think along the same line as Steven,I cant understand people wanting to supply their own engine oil whether it be some flash fandango mineral or synthetic oil, for what ever reason its got me stuffed,as you have found out first hand that $50 you saved on your sevice for suppling your own oil could well cost you close to 20 grand,The first service at 5000km is the most crucial oil change as it is the one when all the swarf and rubbish from the fresh engine is drained out of it.If it is valve stem seals you should have a large amount of smoke coming out of the exhaust going down hill on a trailing throttle when engine manifold vacuum is at its most and oil is being drawn past the stem seals and through the valve guides,if you havent well its definately not valve stem seals.How long have you noticed the smoke if its a sudden occurance it could well be a broken oil ring.Go and have it diagnosed by a reputable mechanic and get a written quote stating what the findings are but dont mention what Toyota reckons is the problem

[450HP/tonne]

Just a question. How did you run the car in the first 10000km? Snail pace or mid rev or Hot rod style? Were you driving at a constant speed for a long period of time?

First 300km: Don't race then engine! I also made sure I didn't sit on constant rpm for very long. I don't remember seeing over 3000rpm until 300km (then I let it free for the first time).

After that, drive it like you want it to perform for the rest of its days. This part of the engines life is generally where components get into a rhythm for doing the same thing over and over.

Police patrol cars are driven hard, so accordingly for the rest of their lives they will consume a little more fuel (with marginal performance and response benefits). If you drive from Sydney to Melbourne straight away, the engine will run in to like a particular piston speed (corresponding to 110km/h), giving you smooth performance and economy at that rpm (but other speeds may seem less smooth or consume more fuel due to higher friction).

This effect should be less with modern low friction engines, so I wouldn't expect to see differences that the average driver could detect.

After 800km you can start towing.

Edited July 22, 2010 by 450HP/tonne

[e240]

First 300km: Don't race then engine! I also made sure I didn't sit on constant rpm for very long. I don't remember seeing over 3000rpm until 300km (then I let it free for the first time).

Mate, the engine's have already been redlined at the factory a few times. LOL. When I was young, I wacked all the new cars my parents had from the get go...and they all performed very strongly later in life..but thats just me.

[Silver-Aurion]

First 300km: Don't race then engine! I also made sure I didn't sit on constant rpm for very long. I don't remember seeing over 3000rpm until 300km (then I let it free for the first time).

Mate, the engine's have already been redlined at the factory a few times. LOL. When I was young, I wacked all the new cars my parents had from the get go...and they all performed very strongly later in life..but thats just me.

Yeah they are red lined..

But also,

Read page 186 in the Aurion manual ;)

Edited July 22, 2010 by unique

[e240]

But also,

Read page 186 in the Aurion manual ;)

I don't read manuals...LOL

[DJKOR]

But also,

Read page 186 in the Aurion manual ;)

Yeah, and the manual also states that an oil consumption of 1 litre per 1000km is completely normal. Do you really believe the manual now?

[Steven]

But also,

Read page 186 in the Aurion manual ;)

Yeah, and the manual also states that an oil consumption of 1 litre per 1000km is completely normal. Do you really believe the manual now?

I wonder if a car going through that much oil could meet emissions standards? That might be a catch 22 on them

[Silver-Aurion]

But also,

Read page 186 in the Aurion manual ;)

Yeah, and the manual also states that an oil consumption of 1 litre per 1000km is completely normal. Do you really believe the manual now?

What else is there not to believe? Everything else in the manual is straight forward and only common sense things like engine running in but I do remember reading that oil consumption part and wondering that can't be right. Lets say it really did consume 1 litre every 1000KM, then you have no oil left at all in the car by 6000KM and the car is meant for 15K or 1 year service.

[avstral]

If you toped up oil between services and overfilled it, than... it damaged engine pretty badly. Blue smoke means engine will die soon.

[dave262]

Silly question... have you ever checked the level of the oil? Did the smoke just suddenly start occurring one day, or did it gradually get worse over time? Did any lights on the dash appear at any stage, such as low oil or "check engine"?

5w-30 oil will not cause this type of issue, unless the engine was already severely damaged previously for another unknown reason (such as those mentioned by CONROD). As others have mentioned too, the dealer is just trying to make a quick dollar off you. I would get a second (and third) opinion from other Toyota dealers and potentially get Toyota involved if they still continue to say 5w-30 oil is the cause.

In addition, valve stem seals will only cause an issue during take-off from idle where you will see lots of smoke. Is there any smoke once the car is already moving (like plumes of blue smoke from exhaust)? If so, that would be the rings on the pistons or the cylinder sleeves. It may even be something as simple as a faulty head gasket leaking oil into the cylinder. If you unscrew the oil cap and look at the bottom of it, is there any "milky" oil there?

In addition, make sure you drive the car as little as possible, as running a car in that condition for much time at all will severely damage all the oxygen and exhaust sensors, and quite likely destroy the catalytic converters (read: VERY expensive to replace all that!). If you find a good dealer, I would try and leave the car with them to look at and see if you can organise a loan car while they investigate.

[Buff Hamster]

This is the covered under the Toyota warranty. This is a blown piston ring which causes the blue smoke. If Toyota refuses to fix this problem for free (under 3 warranty) then i suggest you take this up with VCAT.