Rav4 2AD-FTV Turbo Diesel Excessive Oil Consumption

[RSECHI]

Hi

All the data i have quoted was taken from my service invoice from the dealership.

I have not called Toyota but feel free to call them yourself. The news flash was TNF58/14.

I have looked on a website called http://www.toyota-tech.eu.

It is a european site where for a small fee you can view technical bulletins from toyota.

The bulletins are based for european models., however on there i found information about the 2AD-FTV engine.

The had a bulletin on our problem and their solution was to replace to pistons and piston rings. Major overhaul I'm guessing!

I have a meeting with my dealership, which is a toyota owned dealership, on friday afternoon to discuss the issue and find a solution. I am very doubtful they will budge however fingers crossed, or else it may be a while before a get a resolution

Edited August 22, 2014 by RSECHI

[Talbit]

Actually, I've noticed that on my last service invoice they too have noted that the expected oil consumption was 1L per 10,000klm. They didn't explain where this figure came from. They might have just typed it in without basing it on anything Toyota have published. It's too hard to tell. But I used 1.2L in 5,150klm so it's almost double what they say is okay. I'll try and call them tomorrow. re the news flash.

Talbit

[Sagewood]

Same problem with my 2013 RAV4 GX Diesel (2012 built), low oil warning at 18,000kms, at 20,000kms service was told "not to worry". Low oil warning again at 24,000kms, took it back to the dealer for oil consumption test, received an email a couple of days later just saying parts were ordered and they will be in touch. Told the dealer I am not prepared to be part of an experimental exercise by Toyota Australia attempting to fix the problem, I want a new car or money back. I am awaiting their resonse.

[Upsetwithtoyota]

My 2013 diesel rav 4 has been using all it's oil every 5000 Ks and now it's using all my oil in 2 weeks, it has only 48,000 Ks, I don't tow anything and it's usually only 1 person in it. Toyota is aware there is a problem they monitor these forums but the problem is proving to toyota that they are at fault and not the person driving it. We have just trialled a synthetic oil ( doubt that will work).

I want the car fixed I'm sick of being stuffed around. I have been told they will look at submitting my oil consumption tests later this month however if they do not I'm looking at trying to set up a class action law suit as we have warranty and the dealer said they know there is an issue. Email me your names, your dealer site, your model and year and if it's diesel as I will supply this information to my dealer on Monday and say fix our cars or we are all going to fight you in court. My email is jam2jag@gmail.com my toyota dealer is scone. This is my first brand new car and I travel 1 hour and 10 mins to work its a huge inconvenience having this problem. Not sure if any of you have noticed but I can tell when I'm burning oil on my rav ad you can smell the burnt oil smell in the car while driving.

[Upsetwithtoyota]

I hate to tell you all but it will only get worse. Let's get together and submit our dealers with everyone else's names and demand they get toyota to fix our cars or replace them. I was told there are two outcomes 1: they will give me a new car or 2: pull the motor apart. How can they sit back and do nothing when so many if us have this problem. Six months of fighting them and oil consumption tests and still waiting.

[Andrew162]

This is Toyota's first foray into diesel-engined RAV4's. I'd expect there would be a few hiccups with introducing a new engine into the Aussie market, but perhaps this is a few too many of the one common symptom. Yes, they've done diesel engines before, but never one this small. Perhaps they should have taken the lead of the European guys and borrowed the diesel engine from the 2001- RAV4 commonly used in the more Northern latitudes. At least this was more reliable. I remember a few accounts of people saying that the diesels were better suited to the cooler climates, but maybe not so with the Australian conditions.

Either way, Toyota looks like they need to get their act together with this one.

[Sagewood]

I basically only use my RAV to get to work and back which is a 75kms trip each day, averaging about 40km/h and an average of 7.2l per 100km consumption. Only drive in "eco" mode. Fairly easy going I would say for a Toyota.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Sagewood

[Wilson77]

Hi Talbit,

Sorry I missed that..

What i mean was the car just had 10000kms service and after 14500 kms the oil warning light lit up.

Regards,

Wilson

[RSECHI]

Hi

I think there are grounds for a class action laws suit, however i am no lawyer. The 2AD-FTV engine has been around since 2005 in two different displacements, and from the european TSBs they have had this problem since then, yet they still released the engine in Australia that they classify as "harsh conditions".

BTW the solution was still the same which was to replace pistons etc.

This may make interesting reading; links below:

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/132178-charliefarlies-guide-to-the-toyota-2ad-diesel-engine-and-its-issues/

and in regards the the class action, there is one gaining steam in the US for the petrol engines

http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2014/attorneys-investigate-complaints-toyota-excessive-oil-consumption.shtml

This problem is extremely frustrating but i urge you all to write a letter of demand and use the template on the fair trading website

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/About_us/Our_services/Resolving_issues/Talk_it_over.page

From my understanding there is a process in place with fair trading, the first step in to write a letter of demand to your dealer.

Cheers

[Talbit]

Gents,

Well it certainly looks like things are hotting up with this forum. Good to see that others have come on board.

SAGEWOOD: What "spare parts" are they talking about. There's not much chance of getting a new car or your money back. They will do everything to fob you off so be prepared for a fight!

UPSETWITHTOYOTA: That's large consumption of oil in your RAV4. I too could smell something odd. Actually my wife noticed it at first. I'm not sure yet if it was my RAV4 or a passing car. I'll keep an eye (nose) out for it.

ANDREW162: I'm not sure if climate should effect the oil consumption but maybe a mechanic who has one of these RAV4's might be able to help out if we can get one on board this forum.

WILSON77: So what you are saying is that your oil light came on after only 4,500klm. We can only assume that the oil was topped up to the top mark by your dealer. Your consumption is the worst of all and certainly not acceptable.

I'm not a lawyer either so how would this class action be tackled?

I'm going to see my dealer tomorrow and ask for the service manager. It will be interesting to see what he says about the latest news from Toyota.

As I've said before, if 1L per 10,000klm is what is required then so be it. I could live with that. But mine is using double that amount. And if major problems are going to appear later down the track then I would like to cover my backside against that possibility.

Anyway for now lets all keep this going.

Regards

Talbit

[Talbit]

Today I contacted my local dealer but the service manager was unavailable. The fellow I spoke to was helpful and found the TNF on their system. He confirmed that it said 200ml per 1,000klm is "normal". This equates to 1Ltr every 5,000klm. My consumption is just over that. But on my 10,000klm service receipt it states in reference to my query and I quote...

"Normal oil consumption is 1ltr every 10,000km. (top to bottom of dip stick. No leaks detected."

So it seems to me that these figure a being bandied around willy-nilly! The fellow said to bring in the vehicle so they can look at the dipstick. I won't bother until it gets lower. I can actually see it dropping!

He said that Toyota is suggesting they will replace the oil with a fully synthetic type at the next service. I think it's been mentioned elsewhere in this forum and that it made no difference. An interesting point here... The fellow said he was not aware of this problem but acknowledged that others in the service section might be. It's just that it hadn't come across his desk. Surely an issue like this would be noted by all of the personnel in their service section. After all, they sit next to each other in the same room!

An interesting point he did make, and it's mentioned in the handbook. You should run the engine a little, switch off and wait a couple of minutes, then check the level. Don't check the level with a cold engine. It's an odd thing but it appears to be valid.

I checked my cold engine the other day and it showed a drop on the tip of the stick. After a short run and a wait it looked okay.

BTW, is there some way we can get this topic to appear at the top of the Google search if people come searching. It is in our interests to keep it as active as possible. The Toyota fellow said they don't take any notice of these forums.

Talbit.

[Upsetwithtoyota]

My dealer is well aware that there is a problem with this model.

I am currently trialling this new synthetic oil, it's only been a week so far and I noticed the other day a slight drop in oil, I was meant to go back to the dealer today for a oil test but did not get a chance, I will go tomorrow afternoon or morning if the oil has dropped a lot.

I will check the oil again in the morning.

I have noticed better power performance with this new oil before the rav was sluggish and the performance was poor.

If they change you to the synthetic oil make sure they change your oil filter as well.

Something you may or may not be aware of is the v6 land cruisers made by Toyota also have an oil problem they were able to sort it out with this synthetic oil and last month a new klugar came in with the same problem ( this klugar was a petrol model not diesel).

Makes you wonder why so many of their models have this problem.

They are aware of this problem, they told me this to start with then the manager confirmed there are several diesel rav 4's presenting with this problem.

I hope it's as simple as changing the oil but I find this most likely won't be the case but we can hope either way it's put me off buying another Toyota in the future.

What gets me is there are so many other customers with this problem yet here we are proving to them that it's not our driving causing this problem, we should not have to prove anything. We did not do this to our cars, they didn't make them properly period.

I will keep you all updated with this synthetic oil as I'm sure I will know pretty quickly if it works or not.

[Sagewood]

The GM from the dealership called me yesterday to inform me that they were not in a position to replace or refund the RAV, it is a call only Toyota Australia can make. The Service Manager then called me late yesterday afternoon to let me know the parts from Toyota Japan will be here in two weeks and that they would need the RAV for at least two weeks to replace the parts. He could not tell me what the parts were or what causes the excessive oil consumption (apparently on Toyota Australia know at this stage).

Edited August 25, 2014 by Sagewood

[Andrew162]

This is Toyota's first foray into diesel-engined RAV4's. I'd expect there would be a few hiccups with introducing a new engine into the Aussie market, but perhaps this is a few too many of the one common symptom. Yes, they've done diesel engines before, but never one this small. Perhaps they should have taken the lead of the European guys and borrowed the diesel engine from the 2001- RAV4 commonly used in the more Northern latitudes. At least this was more reliable. I remember a few accounts of people saying that the diesels were better suited to the cooler climates, but maybe not so with the Australian conditions.

Either way, Toyota looks like they need to get their act together with this one.

_____________________________________

I don't normally like to quote myself, but this is more an update on this post. I did some reading up on the European engines used in previous versions of the RAV4's (2000-onwards) and found out that the 1CD-FTV engine was most common (RAV4 / Corolla Avensis Verso were the vehicles it was made for). To my knowledge these engines never made it out here to Australia, so there's no effective way to compare oil consumption between the 'CD' engines and the 'AD' engines that replaced them.

Wish I could help more - I don't like to see RAV4 drivers suffer (being one myself a while back).

[Sagewood]

Small engine Toyota turbo diesel engines have been around in South Africa, where the climate is very similar to Australia, for many years. My dad has a Corolla 2.0D-4D which has done 120,000 trouble free kilometers often towing his caravan. He said to me the other day that he has never had to top the oil between services. I am also not aware of any oil consumption issues with smaller Toyota turbo diesel vehicles in South Africa and confirmed this with a very good contact at Toyota in South Africa.

[Upsetwithtoyota]

We checked our oil today and the level has dropped down to half, we only just had the new synthetic oil put in a week ago so based on this we are burning all our oil in 2 weeks ( the whole lot) so this new oil is not working. We were getting 5000ks before the oil ran out but now it's only 2 weeks. I'm going to call my dealer and take the car in this afternoon and try get them to order parts for my car or replace it. Enough is enough. I'm so over this problem and their lack of cooperation.

[Talbit]

Sagewood,

That's an interesting response from the service manager! How come he doesn't know what the parts are? Very odd!

From reading these forums, it appears the problem is to do with the incorrect piston rings. To replace them would be a major undertaking from Toyota, especially if all of them have the same problem.

Can I suggest we all keep an eye out at the local shopping centres or wherever and approach any new RAV4 owners and ask if they are aware of this problem? Most owners would be oblivious until the oil light comes on and they would certainly be fobbed off by Toyota so they might not be all that concerned.

And Jennifer, you also seem to be pretty well on top of the issue. We'd all like to keep track of your battle so keep the info coming.

My 20,000klm service is due in about 1,500klm. I don't think my oil will get to the bottom mark before then so after the service I'll have to start again with the monitoring. But at the moment it is about halfway between the two matks.

Talbit

[Sagewood]

Finally got an answer, the replacement parts from Toyota Japan are "new modified pistons". I was "assured" it is only the new pistons that need to be replaced, no need for new piston rings or any work on the engine block and should not be concerned about them "stripping the engine to pieces" and putting it back in (great thought...). I wonder how they discovered the pistons to be the problem on my RAV without opening up the engine (another great thought...).

[Talbit]

Hennie,

Interesting outcome and great to see that your dealer at least has gone ahead and actually done something about it. And interesting that they don't want to replace the rings as well. What I'd like to know is how come your dealer is doing this when the
other dealers still say they are not aware of any solution to the problem. Any chance of you telling us who your dealer is so that we can contact him directly? I don't think Toyota is informing their dealers of what's going on. My guess is that it's a reasonably straight forward job to replace the pistons. They probably won't need to remove the engine from the vehicle and they would do it from below. Mind you, if you had to pay for it then they'd charge you heaps!!!

I've got a mechanic mate who might be able to tell me what's required.

I and others will be very keen to see -

1: How long it will take for the pistons to arrive. My experience with Toyota is that parts are shipped by sea, not by air. So if they haven't arrived yet they could take quite a while.

2: How long they want the car for. I think two weeks is excessive.

You do realise that you are now the guinea pig and we are all going to await the outcome of the experiment before we allow our dealers to pull our engines apart!!!

There is no doubt that the dealers won't offer this solution to people who don't report it to them. I have no Idea how many of these vehicles were sold in Australia but it's going to be an expensive exercise for Toyota anyway.

Thanks for letting us all know.

There you go Jennifer - Now you've got some decent ammunition !!!

Regards

Talbit

[Andrew162]

I'd be rather interested to see why they replace the pistons and NOT the rings, as it's the ring's job to keep the oil from getting into the combustion chamber. Most times, this is the source of engine oil being chewed up in the first place. I'm not sure how many of these rings there are per cylinder on a diesel but on any petrol it's 3-4 usually. Usually, any decent engine rebuiler will want to go ahead with the job with pistons and rings, you don't half-***** it when it comes to moving parts; you replace the lot (pistons & rings) or don't touch it.

Other parts inside the engine (main & big end bearings, gudgeons, etc.) probably won't need a swap because they're not at fault and would have hardly worn. The issue with pistons and rings concerns me greatly, as you'd think they'd know at assembly whether or not they were using the correct parts.

[Talbit]

Andrew,

I think you are right... I'd be surprized if the "new modified pistons" didn't come with a new set of rings. But we'll have to wait until Hennie gets his car back on the road and see if it's been fixed. My guess is that because there is more than one diesel showing this problem, that it's a major design fault in this engine or series of engines. Hopefully the Toyota guys in Japan have their heads screwed on the right way and have done enough research to sort it out. I just hope they aren't replacing the pistons with the same that is already there. We'll have to wait and see.

As for the actual job, I think it's possible to remove the sump and remove and replace the pistons from below. It shouldn't require the removal and complete stripping down of the engine. But I'm not an experienced mechanic so I can't be sure.

Again we all need to keep on top of this and don't let it rest or we could all be up with major expenses in the years to come.

BTW, my June 2013 RAV4 model is ALA49R-ANTGYW and the engine is a 2AD-FTV, 2231mL.

Talbit

[Talbit]

Can we all please check our engine type? Have a look at the central door pillar down at the bottom.

Thanks

Talbit

[Upsetwithtoyota]

I took my rav in to be checked in Wednesday and was told I had used 250mls of oil and only travelled 2500 Ks. My dealership has a new manager and he was brilliant and has logged everything with toyota for repair, he said it can take a week to hear back from toyota and that the deduction is toyotas whether to fix or not but he felt my oil usuage was excessive. I'll get back to you soon talbit with that number from my motor, I'm pretty sure mine is June 13 also ?? I will look at the book and car tomorrow

[Upsetwithtoyota]

That was decision not deduction ( my phone thinks it's ok to auto correct 'my words)

[Upsetwithtoyota]

Toyota have came back saying my car is using the correct oil and 1 week later it used another litre of oil.

We have again logged a report and I'm told they plan to pull my motor apart ( this was a mechanic there that said this, the manager won't return my phone calls).

I'm over being lied to by Toyota and my complaints not being taken seriously so I'm now logging a complaint with consumer affairs and putting this matter in the hands of my insurance company. Toyota don't want to honor their warranty and I'm now stuck with a car which uses 1 litre of oil a week ( how is this normal?).

They offered me $21,000 for a trade in ( 6 months ago I paid almost $40,000)

I have had enough of wasting my time ringing them only to be ignored.