Oil leak 3S-FE engine

[ozieagle]

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum, I normally hang out on the MGB and Wolseley ones. However, my son's camry has an annoying oil leak, that I can't find.

It is definitely engine oil. What I have done is to replace the O ring seal of the distributor body a couple of times and finished of with a dollup of silcon, all to no avail. I have resealed the rocker cover, again to no avail. The power steering pump was leaking but has been refurbished and is now dry.

I can't see where the oil is coming from, but I am pretty sure that it is not from the sump seal, as the flange is wet on top. The gearbox seals have been replaced and it is dry.

My next move is to stip the manifolds and remove the head, though I am reluctant to do this, due to the effort and time required, so I am asking if anyone might have an idea where the oil is coming from, to save the effort of removing the head.

Please forgive me uploading my babies, but I am rather proud of them.

TIA

Herb

[trentmeyer23]

Put cardboard under it whilst it is parked and see which area it is leaking from, rear, front, timing belt end or gearbox end.

[ozieagle]

Thanks, Trent.

I have done that, but all it shows is the lowest point of the engine. The oil migrates along till it gets to the lowest point then drips.

I should have mentioned that the leak is somewhere at the back of the engine, which is covered with assorted manifolds and plumbing, so can't really see anything back there, which is why I'm going to strip those off to see. My fear is that the head gasket may have failed and is allowing oil to seep out.

The ridge that the sump bolts to is wet on the top.

Herb

[trentmeyer23]

You should start with a clean slate by degreasing it and getting a brush in where you can to clean it up. It will be much easier to find.

[ozieagle]

Well! I've started dismantling the undersides, to get a better view. The oil wetness is at the non gearbox end, the normal front of the engine. The power steering pump is soaked, BUT it is not ATF, as the reservoir is still full. Engine oil. Now where can this oil be coming from? The cam seal? Looked through the inspection hole, in the timing cover, and the cam seal does show signs of weeping, but the surrounds are clean and dry, as is the cam sprocket. My thought is that maybe the seal is leaking around the outside and the oil running down the front of the engine, even though no signs of any leak from the timing covers.

I have attached some pics of the area, they may not show the oil very well.

Unfortunately I've developed a bad crick in the neck and can't move my head, so no more work for now.

Herb

edited to correct spelling and format

Edited June 30, 2015 by ozieagle

[trentmeyer23]

Under the timing cover, you will have the camshaft, crankshaft and oil pump seals. Cleaning it is really the only way to get a good indication.

[ozieagle]

Ah ha - oil pump. I'm not used to the oil pump protruding external to the engine, my cars have it internally. I am pretty sure that this is my problem, the oil pump seal. Now that I have a direction where to look I see that the oil pump is in an "ideal" position to spew oil out in that area.

Thanks.

I will get a set of new seals for the crank, cam and oil pump. May as well do them all, whilst I'm in there.

I will post the results in a few days.

Herb

[trentmeyer23]

The oil pump should have 2 seals. One is an o-ring type gasket, the other is a typical shaft seal.

[ozieagle]

Update.

It's not the shaft seal but the gasket between the pump and block. What a PITA to get at.

Herb

[trentmeyer23]

You may be able to access it better through the right wheel arch by removing the wheel and any plastic trim.

[ozieagle]

Hi Trent,

Thanks for your tips, but I'm already there.

To do this the following is the procedure

Remove front right wheel, this exposes the belt covers.
Jack up engine and remove engine mount, if you can get past the power steering plumbing.
Remove Crank pulley.
Remove two plastic covers, with a lot of wriggling.
Remove belt tensioner
Go and buy new gasket, luckily this was off the shelf, at the local Toyota dealer.
OK need to remove this.
Need to remove sump to do, but need to lift car more.
Can't lift car because jack is supporting the engine. Go and buy a 4X2, place across guards and tie engine up. Lift car to -
Remove cross member
Remove lateral member, which has 2 engine mounts on it.
Remove engine to gearbox bracket
Remove exhaust engine pipe
Remove sump, supposed to remove front stabilizer bar, but managed without doing it.
Remove crank belt pinion
Remove oil pump housing and bench clean and replace shaft seals for crank and pump.
Two days and I've only just got it apart.
Replace is reverse

Herb

[ozieagle]

Hi,

Well it all went back together. Unfortunately the leak is still there. The only place it can be is the head gasket, unless there is an oil passage somewhere in that area.

Not looking forward to pulling the head, even more difficult than the oil pump.

Herb

[trentmeyer23]

What did you replace exactly?

I would be very surprised if it was indeed the head.

[ozieagle]

Hi Trent

I replaced all the shaft seals, the oil pump "O" ring, the oil pump to block gasket. I also used Permatex gasket sealer on this gasket, very unlikely to be the leak.

The seals were greased prior to the shaft s being inserted.

I am pulling the last of my few hairs over this issue.

I have looked int he manual and one of the oil leak issues mentioned is the head. If it is from there I assume that it would be the gasket, no the head itself.

Herb

[trentmeyer23]

If you have cleaned it down well enough, you should be able to trace it back to the source with a torch and mirror. At worst you could run a leak detection UV dye through the oil, which could be cheaper that jumping straight to the head gasket.

[Clubber997]

How many Ks? Could well be the head gasket, especially with all that oil coming out of the back of the engine (a relatively common occurrence) but I'd clean it all up first as has been previously suggested before jumping straight in and ripping the head off... Is it definitely coming from the top of the engine? Could also be that cam seal. There could well be several leaks. When was the timing belt last done, and do you know if the cam seal etc was changed at the same time? (Always a good idea).

[ozieagle]

Cam seal replaced when other oil pump work was done. Car has done about 280k,

I am sure that it has nothing to do with shaft seals and gaskets, having just replaced them all. The oil is definitely at the front (timing belt) end of the engine.

I would like to clean everything, but there is no access to the area. All the stuff has to be removed to get at it. Can't even eyeball it.

Herb

[trentmeyer23]

Is it 100% not the the valve cover? If FIPG is not used, the valve cover seal is almost guaranteed to leak.

Why are you dodging the question of, has been cleaned?

[Jim.]

What is FIPG please Trent?

[trentmeyer23]

Form in place gasket. If still unsure, Google it.

[ozieagle]

I resealed the valve cover before the oil pump works. No go.

The cleaning thing is almost as difficult as doing the job. Trying to get behind all the manifolds, injectors with limited space. I can't even see in there, with a mirror and light. Also I can't do it in the driveway or divorce proceedings will start. To really do a good cleaning job the car would need to be up on a hoist, have the various cross members removed and pressure clean every thing. Again divorce proceeding stuff.

To recap:

I've

resealed the dizzy, several times, with viton O rings and in desperation with RTV 926, which is good to 250 deg C, resistant to oils and other chemicals and I have used for years without any problems. Conclusion, it's not the dizzy leaking

resealed the valve cover, with RTV 926,

replaced shaft seals on "front" of engine, cam, oil pump and crank

replaced oil pump 'O' ring seal

replaced oil pump housing gasket and used Permatec sealer, as well

The oil is definitely dribbling down along the oil pump housing to block join.

The head / gasket seems to be the only remaining culprit, unless there is some oil channel in that area, that I'm not aware of.

Herb