Extractors Installed 10/05/2004

[Danthuyer]

Well guys the extractors were installed on Saturday.

Firstly HUGE thanks to Bruce Sollitt for all his help in getting these parts to me at fantasic prices ;)

The TRD extractors as you can see from the DYNO have added a good gain in both horsepower and torque. As for the feel and responce of the car there is a definate pickup on the responce, and feels less restrictive (well thats what they are designed to do hey!? :P )

The biggest thing I noticed was the increased torque. The extrctors were fitted on a wet day and i found that hitting lift in first and second in a straight line the wheels did not spin as much as they used to :)

All in all I'm very happy with the result and feel of the car now. :D

DYNO readout

I also have a 3.5 Meg video of one of the DYNO runs. If anyone could host this for me to share around to people please let me know.

[Blade Hunter]

I can host it for you.

Dan

[E-Gene]

Sorry Dan, can I ask how much you paid for them? Thinking of getting them myself.

[Blade Hunter]

Heh you mean as in Danthuyer I presume :).

[xTiGeRx]

Danthuyer: How come the dyno run was done in 3rd gear? Should be the closest to 1:1 ratio. Either 4th or 5th Gear...hmmm..interesting....

With your 102kw base read out = 132.6kw at the fly

With your 108kw CAI read out = 140.4kw at the fly (increase of 7.8kw from base)

With your 113kw CAI + Extractors = 146.9kw at fly (increase of 14.3kw from base)

Were there any problems with fitting the extractors? No issues at all?

Very interested as to how much it'll cost to get a set of extractors too ;)

-Chris

[Danthuyer]

TRD Extractors As seen on TRDsales.com :D

Tiger - we can't honestly say what we are running at the flywheel in the Stivo, as we are unsure of the % loss from the drivetrain. We would only be guessing figures. No there wasn't any issue at all fitting the extractors (I had the mechanic @ F.I.S.T. do it for me)

I'm not concerned about power figures. The drive of the car is what is important ;) and the car certainly drives alot better now :D

[oz_viking]

With your 102kw base read out = 132.6kw at the fly

With your 108kw CAI read out = 140.4kw at the fly (increase of 7.8kw from base)

With your 113kw CAI + Extractors = 146.9kw at fly (increase of 14.3kw from base)

The 2ZZ-GE max hp (at the flywheel) is 141kw, not 132.6kw, right?

[qkslvr]

I read some posts from the south African forum and they came up with a theoretical figure of ~136kw at the flywheel also. last i heard they were wanting to lodge a formal complaint to toyota for false advertising. don't know how that went. Hope they also got the sqeeks and rattles fixed :D

i'm thinking toyota pulled a trick and dropped the rev limiter which in turn dropped the max output from 141kw to somwhere around 136kw. Because don't forget that the pre 2003 celicas had an 8600rpm rev limit. legally they can still argue that the engine is capable of 141kw but they just limited the power for safety or something.

what do you guys think?

[Toohey]

Qkslvr, if that is the case then why do they represent that the Stivo produces 141kw when the represented power of the Celica was only 140kw?

[Danthuyer]

Anyway back to the topic at hand.

I hope the DYNO gives a few people an idea as to what performance parts (bolt on) from TRD, can and will do for you :D

[xTiGeRx]

oz_viking: 141kw is Toyota's claimed max power output at the fly. I'd like to believe it..but..to be honest, i don't believe it. I doubt we'd be making 141kw at the fly. We're lucky if we produce 135kw at the fly. If you ask the people who have dynoed, they will show you the dyno sheets and the average power output is between 101-103kw at the wheels. That converted to flywheels only equates to 132kw at the fly.

The 1ZZ-FE figure are way more accurate than the 2ZZ-GE figures. I've owned and dynoed a 1ZZ-FE and it was pretty much spot on. 2ZZ-GE...sigh..another story.

We've been duped into believing the car produces 141kw straight from the dealer.

<_< <_<

Danthuyer: Sorry about sidetracking your topic. :(

-Chris

[ZEEROLLA]

Not bad Danthuyer, those mods prove to be worth the money i see :) When are you getting the UNICHIP? Would like to see how much more kws you can squeeze out of the 2ZZGE

[Blade Hunter]

Here we go fellas :)

click to open in your browser or right click and save as to download a copy to your machine

Listen to it go, DAMN they are good sounding cars :).

the site its hosted on is mine and I get unlimited bandwidth and space so if you guys need personal vids of your cars hosted im happy to help :).

Cheers

Blade

[Pecker]

Danthuyer: Have you got any times beofre and after??? to see the performance gains?

Nice sounding car too....

ALso what does this all do for the factory warranty???

[richi]

good work blade hunter for hosting it, gotta love it when dans car hits lift.

congrats on the extractors dan, u must be grinning like this -> :D the car sounds great.

i never knew stock put out around 100kw @ the wheel, i always assumed it was less.

[trd_141]

Very nice read out and the car sounds very tough

*** job man

[trd_141]

what i mean to write

was great job man - you do rolla drives proud

[oz_viking]

If you ask the people who have dynoed, they will show you the dyno sheets and the average power output is between 101-103kw at the wheels. That converted to flywheels only equates to 132kw at the fly.

But to work that out, you'd need to know the exact % loss through the drivetrain, which you don't, unless you also dyno the engine.

[Danthuyer]

Big thx to blade for hosting the video for me ;)

pecker - no times mate. I will have a few for you on friday though as I am heading out with Shao to do a few runs whilst his beast get the extractors also.

Richi - Thx mate :D <- yes the grin is still there. there are mixed reports of the power output when stock. Someone said that a reputable aussie car mag had it rated at 86kW??? then some brit mags had it around 95kW??? I was over the moon with 102kW stock.

trd_141 - Thx mate :) *puffs chest out*

oz - exactly what i said b4 ;)

[Pecker]

Yeah it does sound tough...

Are you able to tell us how much $$$ it set you back with fitment and Dyno Test???

[xTiGeRx]

i think it's going to be impossible to convince you guys how i worked it out.

all i can say is...i had a 2002 levin before. factory is 100kw at fly. did an initial dyno (stock) and got 76.0kw at the wheels. which converts to 98.8kw at the fly. (pretty close to what the factory claims)

Using the same formula with the stivo (sure..different car...different g/b, different ratios...but...i don't know....the same in some way) hehe...anyways....

that's how i worked out how much the stivo is putting out at the fly.

sure....133kw at the fly is hard to swallow...coz it's suppose to be 141kw. but be open minded about this...

to put it into perspective....if the car only puts out 103kw at the wheels and the fly is 141kw (claimed) that's a 27% loss from fly to wheels. that is a huge loss for a FWD car.

Doesn't anyone understand what i'm trying to say? Or are you all chosing not to believe that the car does not put out 141kw.

the 1ZZ-FE corollas are only 1 second slower than us...and we have 41 more kw's than they do.....WHAT THE??????????

RWD vehicles loose around that much from the fly -> drive train -> wheels.

let's say our cars only loose 20%.

that would equate to 141kw at the fly -> 117.5kw at the wheels. Is there anyone out there putting out over 110kw at the wheels stock? no way! unless of course the dyno is 'tweak' to show that.

anyone? doesn't anyone understand?

*sigh* it's just reality guys....ah...stuff it. i give up.

-Chris

[Pecker]

Tiger: Im not saying our Kw's may be down, but regarding why the stock corolla is not much slowe there are 2 factors.

Fact 1: Our car is heavier by 154 KG!!!!

Fact 2: Our car only has 9 nm of tourque more than a normal rolla... and torque makes a huge difference in accelleration, that is why a 1400kg, 140kw 200sx will kick our ****!

So in fact, put into perspective, our cars could easily be 141kw and only 1 second faster than a normal rolla.....

But 136 or 141, i still love my car....

[shaohaok]

a stock aus delivered DC5R is also around 90-100kw at the wheels and that's coming from an owner.

[xoom]

Hey guys,

have been really interested in this topic of the actual kw value of our vehicles and nothing short of an engine dyno will give u an accurate figure at ur fly wheel. This involves 2 very expensive procedures :( trust me i've checked.

1)removal of the engine. approx cost 800-1300

2)the engine dyno for a complete day. 800-1300

so if someone is prepared to fork that out to prove the 10kw discrepinsy by all means go for it.

Now back to the issue at hand and working it out on paper. I have been to several performance places and had my car dyno'ed @ 2 seperate places. 1 of the guys that dyno'ed my car actually did have his car engine dyno'ed(produced like 400+ horses but thats another story ;) ) Anyway both these guys suggested 1 simple, cheap n easy rule of thumb that they use which is:

KW @ the fly = Horses @ the wheels

And this actually worked for him when he used the above formula to compare his engine dyno result and his @ the wheels result. Hey ok results can/will vary but this is why this is simply a rule of thumb and from what i was told he has seen this on other cars done also with the largest discrepency he has seen is the @ the wheel measurement out by a MAXIMUM of 5% in arears. i.e. the @ the wheels figure was less than what it should be.

this in mind we have 141kw @ the fly

so 141 horses @ the wheel

Now 1 Horsepower = 0.7457 kW this is in many many many physics books and i have a few of them

so therefore 141 horses * 0.7457 = 105.14

Ok now thats on paper and minus any conditional issues.

Ok this @ hand my stock dyno runs (all 9 of them) of which i only have 3 actual print outs measeured from 101kw -> 103kw

the reverse calculation is

101kw @ wheels = 135.44 horses @ wheels = 135.44 kw @ engine

103kw @ wheels = 135.44 horses @ wheels = 138.13 kw @ engine

ok hmmmm a MAX of 5% on 141 = 7 so i would safely assume anything that produces 134 kw plus could potentially be CORRECT.

ANYWAY TO PROVE A POINT EVEN FURTHER HERE WE GO

So ok from looks of things im out from the standard 141kw claim by anything from 3kw->6kw. WHY u might ask ???? well here we go

All these cars are mass produced. What does this mean ??? well some cars may have themselves 1mm-2mm whatever bored out than others some might be less and there are like about a million other mechanical parts that could be slightly different as such impacting the overall picture. Another thing is all the fuel mappings are mapped with an intended mapping band i.e. as long as the mapping is between a certain band of error its acceptable. When i had my car chipped the guy who did it for me indicated that the cars fuel mappings when standard seemed slightly off in terms of he felt its really on border line to actually hindering performance the above point proven. Does this mean i could have gain more power if it was more to the centre of the band ???? well dont know. We also have tyre pressure, oil viscosity, gear box condition etc etc etc

Now this is simply to do with the car. Other influencing factors temperature, humidity, climate, i dont know if land height impacts it i.e above sea level as guranteed all these are different in SA then they are in AUS. And each and every time you dyno your car if any of these are different then there should be an impact on yor reading as if some of you didnt know the dyno will adjust the power output results based on the above influences to compensate for a negative environment and penalise for a positive one

Ok now my last point which some may or may not have heard before so hang onto your hats :P :P A DYNO IS A TOOL NOT TO ACTUALLY GIVE U A TRUE MEAUREMENT OF WHERE U R AT BUT RATHER TO GIVE U A STARTING POINT MEASUREMENT WHERE BY ONCE U MOD YOUR CAR YOU HAVE A BENCH MARK TO COMPARE TO i.e HOW WORTH WHILE WAS THE MOD

with this in mind. I have been told that toyota has actually proven its 141kw measurement which has cleared them of any legal action...so i have been told.

For anyone who wishes to question by all means do so. BUT just a piece of advise i have done the reading, i have done the maths, and funnily enough plenty of study about this crap when i was @ uni in my physics courses.

So i hope that signs and seels this arguement.

Simple terms: each car is different and probably no 2 s'tivos stock will get exactly the same dyno results. BE HAPPY WITH YOUR CAR and dont let this trouble you. A simple fact is in a circuit race a driver is only @ full throttle 10->15% of the time which is what a dyno result represents so what your real concern should really be is low->mid range with various throttle positions.

More than happy to field any questions boys

My 2 cents worth

Bill

[Pecker]

Bill: Nicely put,

i reckon that might also be closer to a dollars worth.

If anyone wants to know how i came to the conclusion it was a dollars worth and not 2 cents i have the formula on paper.

:D :D :D