MOTOR MAGAZINE

[Sport1vo]

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Edited May 8, 2005 by sport1vo

[shaohaok]

isn't it like unless u are category winner, a car is only eligible for entry if it has a facelift/version revision or completely new?

[xoom]

oh well if it is then its to late already sent them an email :P :P :P

[Sport1vo]

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Edited May 8, 2005 by sport1vo

[indigoid]

Sportivo for under 30k BFYB in my eyes is dubious. Why? because they're far too heavy[1], don't have an LSD[2], and make it far far too easy to uselessly spin wheels when cornering. Not really sure what I'd pick instead though. Realistically if you can afford to spend 30k on a car you can very probably afford to spend 34k and get a Clio Sport instead - much lighter, not much less power, and (opinion) they don't look like ****.

I love Corollas, have owned six so far, and will be buying more in the future. Already got my next purchase teed up. I don't see the Sportivo as a winner though.

[1] my Volvo wagon is barely 100kg heavier (yes, really, I have the roadworthy sheet to prove it), and just look at the size difference! The Volvo is longer than my carport! Sportivo is 124kg heavier than the Levin. That's ridiculous. Where is the extra weight, anyway? Surely it's not all in those seats and other small interior changes, and I doubt that the 6 speed box is much heavier at all than the 5 speed

[2] no excuse for this. Other Corolla (and Nissan Pulsar SSS and Q, and Honda Integra) models have had LSDs optional or in some cases standard for ages now, yet it isn't even an option with the Sportivo. FWD sucks in my humble opinion, but an LSD makes it at least somewhat tolerable

[03MikeSportivo]

i don't think we need such negatives to this forum. knew it was only a matter of time before the idiots found their way to this forum.

regardless of what you say, the stivo rips. the amount u pay and what u get for it its most deffinately worth it.

-mike

[richi]

im with mike on this one, for the price u pay, it definately rips and is value for money. u say there isnt much difference between 30 and 34k, since some of the on the road cost are percentages of the base price, it turns out to be alot more than a 4k difference.

where does the weight come from? have u seen the difference between the size of the engines between the stivo and a levin? it makes the levin engine look tiny, so im sure that could be one of the reasons why it is abit heavier. (no offense to non stivo rolla drivers).

i believe, that if u had less than 34k (includin on the road) the best buy would be the stivo. with a great engine, leather interior, lift, etc. the rolla has alot more potential to look good, than a clio does, and for enthuasis its alot more fun to play with, mod wise.

the clio would be over 35k (i'm assuming) to put on the road, so for the price category 30-34k the stivo is a clear winner B)

[indigoid]

i don't think we need such negatives to this forum.

No discussion of negatives? Why on earth not? Every car has faults. Even the Sportivo. I note that you didn't actually contest any of my points. Why not? Were you secretly wishing I wasn't right?

knew it was only a matter of time before the idiots found their way to this forum.

True idiots wouldn't objectively consider all of the options available to them, such as the Clio. I've also very seriously considered the Mazda RX-8 (and driven one), and also looked at the Subaru Liberty GT Premium. They are in a different ballpark, though :D

For what it's worth, I have driven both the Sportivo and the 1ZZ Corollas. I quite liked the Sportivo (other than the issues I already mentioned), but mainly because the 2ZZ seemed so much nicer than the 1ZZ at all parts of the rev range. I'd buy it to tootle around town in, it'd be wonderful for that, but for driving fast on that kind of money I'd choose something else, very probably one of these:

http://www.prbaustralia.com.au/

j.

[Sport1vo]

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Edited May 8, 2005 by sport1vo

[indigoid]

Bloody Volvo drivers indeed. One question I'd like an answer to is "where do I keep my hat in a Volvo wagon?" it has no parcel shelf! :D :D :D

Good point about the quality with Renault. Having owned mostly Toyotas and a Volvo I have pretty high expectations in this area. On the other hand I haven't heard anything negative about the Clio build quality and reliability. I had an AE112 (2001 shape) Levin for a while, and wasn't overly impressed when the interior started rattling badly within 6 months.

Both of the Corollas I have now are 2-door sedans :D One of my friends has a Sportivo that he drives regularly Sydney -> Canberra -> Sydney, and says that even in 6th it revs too high at highway speeds. That would annoy the hell out of me. At 3500rpm in 5th my Volvo is a bit past 150km/h

My prediction is Mazda 3 for sub-30k BFYB 2004

j.

[Sport1vo]

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Edited May 8, 2005 by sport1vo

[indigoid]

A slightly taller 6th (no real need to touch the other ratios, except maybe 1st/2nd/3rd a bit shorter) would be nice, I think. Even a 500rpm drop at 110km/h could be a noticeable improvement in comfort, and perhaps economy too. The ZZ motors aren't so gutless at the bottom end that this would mean extra gearchanges when going up hills, so why not?

If Toyota sold an AWD Sportivo wagon here with aforementioned gear ratios I'd buy it instantly. Perfect for skiing holidays (less likely to need chains, plus more luggage space), wet weather, camping (decent luggage space), blah blah. Much more practical than a hatch or *vomit* a sedan. I think that would be truly worthy of BFYB, even though it'd cost more (they couldn't ask too much more though, look at Subaru's Impreza pricelist)

I'd better go sleep now. Need to fix the Volvo tomorrow :(

[Pecker]

indigoid: Welcome to the forum.

Im all for posting your opinions (afterall thats the whole point of a forum) but you dont have to put them accross with so much anger and spight. Just take it easy a little and speak in a more frienlly neutral manner so we can all get along.

Now to the response.

No LSD? Spend $1500 and fit one and it still comes in several thousand dollars cheaper than a CLIO. There goes your wheel spin problem.

Heavy? The power to weight ratio on these 2 cars is almsost the same.

Clio: 8.35 : 1 (kg/kW)

Sportivo: 8.68 : 1 (kg/kW)

Furthermore, take into account that Toyota for some reason overstate the cars weight (as duscussed on this board in the past) and i dont think for a second the Sportivo is heavy at all.

And another thing, you cannot compare the RX8 or Subie Liberty GT to our humble 30k car.

Have you seen the latest compare in Motor?

I have spy shots of the cover:

My Quarters Worth (US 25 Cents) :D :D :D :D

[indigoid]

Of course you can't compare it to the rx8 or liberty, and I wasn't. They are just other cars I would consider buying, as I'm not in the market for only small hatchbacks. Very probably I'd lean toward the RX8. They are wonderful cars

Yes, power:weight. Hopefully BFYB will include data like braking distances, lateral g, slalom tests, blah blah blah. There's plenty more to life than acceleration! For what it's worth my Corollas weigh around 710kg, bone stock. They are rather older though :D

edit: comparing it to my Volvo isn't as outlandish as it first seems! 2.3L 4cyl engine, 100kW, similar torque to 2ZZ, 1350kg, 4 speed + overdrive gearbox. They are much bigger and barely 100kg heavier, and rear wheel drive, but none of those should really affect cruising rpm! I suspect the major differences here are the diff ratio and "it's a eurocar", so the indicators and wipers are on the correct sides of the steering column

j.

[xoom]

Hi indigoid,

I like and really respect ur opinions and dont mind debating these issues but now i hope u can respect mine.

1) One of the boys on the forum has a weighing bridge at his work and upon weighing it in with a full load it came up short of the 1220ish toyota claims but more around 1180ish.

2) The clio & peugot gti 180 (threw this in as no 1 has given it a mention yet) are receiving huge criticism at the moment for 2 things. The quality of worksmanship in putting these cars out in the public and their electrical systems and the failuires that they are encountering. How do i know this ?? The people at fair trading let me know this 1.

3) The only car in this class that has an LSD is the focus i believe. And i think it was motor that said it. "Its the only car in this class that doesnt need 1". So as mention i have quoted an LSD installed for between 1.5K-2K

4) Have looked at the clio. My opinion. Unless im never looking at putting people in the back seat then maybe i might buy 1. I dont consider a piece of metal with some cloth and trim a back seat (ok i might b exagerating but not far from it). Also in a rear collision would u rather be in the back of a corolla or a clio ???? Not much room at all in the back.

5) Creature comforts. Looked at several cars before getting the sportivo. For 30K i am unable to find anything that competes in all facets with the sportivo. and isnt that the whole point of BFYB ?

6) Ok the corolla doesnt have independant rear suspension but rather a torsion bar (i think thats how u spell it ;) ) This i accept as a negative of the vehicle but as yet have not encountered situations where its hindered me in the drivability of the car in anyway. But at the same time remember the car is worth under 30K so to get all the other +'ves of the car there needs to be -'ves.

7) You mentioned bracking distance. I have documented testing performed by 2 sources which indicate the sportivo's braking is on par with the jap spec civic type-r i.e. 100-0 in 40 m. Now honda prides itself on these things and the sportivo is right there its equal.

8) If someone is looking for a vehicle that has consistent acceleration. Then the sportivo is not for them. This car was built to be reved and driven hard reving the engine to gain its performance. This is simply the way to get this beast moving. For me this is how i love to drive a car. Keeping the rev's high and the power going. I find it really dull having a car that just pulls all round. Again this 1's upto personal choice. But i guess the successful type-r integra also suffers from this ;)

9) We see ourselves comparing the s'tivo to the focus, astra, peugot, clio etc. And all that goes to show is we are not comparing apples with apples as all those cars price wise are in another league but the funny part is. The corolla is ahead of them in many facets. I mean the s'tivo didnt come 4th in 2003 for best Australian sports car for under 55K for no reason beating all the cars i mentioned above !!!

Ok ive been saving them up so i'd say thats $5 worth :P :P

Cheers

Bill

[black455]

Two thumbs up to all the stivo owners who put their thoughts forward. In my opinion This topic shouldn’t even be discusses as stivo is far better car than a clio sport regardless of the price, stivo owners you know what I mean ;). And also there is big difference just driving a stivo on a test drive and owning one :D

[NIKICH]

A point was mentioned "there is more to a car then just acceleration"

From my limited experiance with a Clio sport, thats all it has, acceleration, i didnt like the handling, the suspension for a car that small was way to stiff and i felt my insides jolt on mild bumps.

My other fault was i have had 3 two door cars and i really didnt want another one. Its just way too small for that kind of money

[lucio_libre]

Just another example of a typical old school rolla owner, cant hack the quality and awesome looks of what is by far the best corolla to be hit Australia, the sportivo. If you want an RX8 what are you doing in this forum? we dont wanna hear it, so just shut it

[trd_141]

good point

stick to the rolla power and support it

[Skitzo]

All the guy was doing was stating his opinion... Nothing wrong with a little healthy debate.

We all know that the majority os us own stivos on this forum, but it doesnt mean we have to think its the greatest car in the world which has no negatives at all...

There have been plenty of negatives about the stivo that I have heard from you guys talking on the boards that have made me glad that I got a normal rolla.

I dont think this topic needs anymore replys like 'my stivo is the best so shut up and get away from our forums' so try to keep it to constructive arguement from now on.

DISCUSS why the stivo should or should not be Best Buy for under 30k.

[lucio_libre]

Exactly, so why does this clown start talking about bloody cleos and rx8's, not to mention volvo's and liberty gt's. Stating one's opinion is fine, as long as you have a valid point and stick to the topic.Nobody is saying our car is the best, and this topic was never meant to be argumentative, simply comparative. Why do i even bother sometimes ;) ;)

[bpt-4w]

i think he was just using the other cars as comparisons to pwr , weight ect. i have a ae82 and with mods could do everything a stivo could do but, i recon for a standard car that comes out of the factory there is nothing else that comes close to the stivo in performace and luxury , as well as the factory doing a good job with the aftermarket gear as well to support the owners, there are short comings in the handling department but that is easily fixed like any car , now if we could only get the 2zz into the corolla it would really burn some bridges then.

[Pecker]

bpt-4w Posted on May 24 2004, 02:00 AM

now if we could only get the 2zz into the corolla it would really burn some bridges then.

Im confused bro, the corolla already has the 2zz in it in the sportivo.

Am i going mad????

[shaohaok]

perhaps he meant the older corollas?

[NIKICH]

I guess we have gone off the topic a bit, Is the sportivo going to be in the BYFB this year???