replacement rubber for Kluger 19 inch wheels

[kwach10]

Hi All clever ones (do search German meaning of the name!)

Recently, I joined the ranks of happy owners of Kluger 4wd (lets drop awd nonsense) in the Grande dress-up.

Bought it with 36K on the clock after 10 months of use.

All is fine, but two tyres require changing for roadworthy after just 40K.

As some have already noted, Toyota in their wisdom, selected a very rare tyre size for this car (245/55/19) - no one else did so far. Why???

Bridgestone go the corporate blessing to implement this scam, as no one else is making this size of tyre. So, would anyone happily part with $500+ per tyre?

A puncture may become a $500 job if a sidewall is damaged!!!

This clever scam almost mirrors the “inventiveness” of Microsoft with their linking of IE to the Windows platform, and other market restrictive practices, for which they were happy to pay millions in fines to the EU Big Brother.

If I were a lawyer, I would consider taking this matter to an appropriate legal venue claiming restrictive trade practices!

But why bother – lets make them pay for this scam.

There are a few options to evade this entrapment, and let Bridgestone choke on the stock pile of this rare rubber.

The costly one – change wheels (to 18 (Lexus) or 20 inch) and tyres for a more popular and cheaper size.

Cheaper but bit complicated – change tyre size to 255/50/19 or 255/55/19 – each within legal limit (2.5%) and much more popular thus cheaper! The second will offer better fuel economy and faster acceleration as a bonus!

Complication!

For constant 4wd cars – all wheels must be the same size to maintain the same rolling diameter as not to cause problems with differential – so all tyres must be changed at the same time if changing from a different size. (large one off cost!)

Any experiences or suggestions?

Dan

[Sheryle]

There are a few options to evade this entrapment, and let Bridgestone choke on the stock pile of this rare rubber.

The costly one – change wheels (to 18 (Lexus) or 20 inch) and tyres for a more popular and cheaper size.

Cheaper but bit complicated – change tyre size to 255/50/19 or 255/55/19 – each within legal limit (2.5%) and much more popular thus cheaper! The second will offer better fuel economy and faster acceleration as a bonus!

Complication!

For constant 4wd cars – all wheels must be the same size to maintain the same rolling diameter as not to cause problems with differential – so all tyres must be changed at the same time if changing from a different size. (large one off cost!)

Any experiences or suggestions?

Dan

Thanks for this,

I am in the process at the moment at looking at 2 new front tyres for my 2004 Kluger. I will now do some research re replacing all four tyres

[kwach10]

There are a few options to evade this entrapment, and let Bridgestone choke on the stock pile of this rare rubber.

The costly one – change wheels (to 18 (Lexus) or 20 inch) and tyres for a more popular and cheaper size.

Cheaper but bit complicated – change tyre size to 255/50/19 or 255/55/19 – each within legal limit (2.5%) and much more popular thus cheaper! The second will offer better fuel economy and faster acceleration as a bonus!

Complication!

For constant 4wd cars – all wheels must be the same size to maintain the same rolling diameter as not to cause problems with differential – so all tyres must be changed at the same time if changing from a different size. (large one off cost!)

Any experiences or suggestions?

Dan

Thanks for this,

I am in the process at the moment at looking at 2 new front tyres for my 2004 Kluger. I will now do some research re replacing all four tyres

"old" Kluger has 16 inch wheels and tyre options are pletifull and reletively cheap!

I would recommend Toyo from my experience on Magna 4wd! They last 60K, if rotated.

[sammy]

there has been a number of threads on this topic (re replacement tyres) and i have done some searching myself for alternate rubber, eventhough my wife's car has only done about 9.5K and there is still plenty of tread, I fugure there is no harm in seeing what is available.

Kwach, your point on the 255/55 option is a good one and there certainly quite a few brands not least of all conti, michelin, which as far as i'm concerned are better than the bridgestone on there at the moment, but i recall from a previous thread that there may be an issue of clearance between the strut tower and the tyres on the rear.

good luck and keep us posted

[kwach10]

there has been a number of threads on this topic (re replacement tyres) and i have done some searching myself for alternate rubber, eventhough my wife's car has only done about 9.5K and there is still plenty of tread, I fugure there is no harm in seeing what is available.

Kwach, your point on the 255/55 option is a good one and there certainly quite a few brands not least of all conti, michelin, which as far as i'm concerned are better than the bridgestone on there at the moment, but i recall from a previous thread that there may be an issue of clearance between the strut tower and the tyres on the rear.

good luck and keep us posted

Indeed, the room is tight on the back but 10 mm wider (5 in both directions) should be no problem - will investigate.

As to the choice - I read Conti 4x4 reviews from US and you will never, never buy it. As for big M, my experience with their other tyres has been very bad - no grip in wet - fast wear! generally - crap! and expensive. My top choice for other applications - Toyo or Falken.

Pirellis may be OK, but I am focusing on Koreans - very good reviews for one particular brand and model, and the price should be relatively OK.

Will let you know.

[kwach10]

Just checked room between the strut and standard tyre on the back. No worries for extra 5 mm! For a total pace of mind, one could install a 5 mm spacer.

The best tyre calculator I have seen is here: http://www.alloywheels.com/TyreCalc.asp

[Blackkluger]

TOYO open country has been released last month through Tyrepower, i was quoted today $350 approx for each tyre fitted and balanced, thats 245/55/19 original specs.

Im still having wear issues with the front left tyre, its wearing on the outside, and my local dealer is stumped, toyota head office said this is "NORMAL" for suburban driving....I take huge offence to this as most of us would use it in surburbia! Its like im doing something abnormal with my car!

20" is good, but hey, why not go all the way to 22"! lol

[kwach10]

Just checked room between the strut and standard tyre on the back. No worries for extra 5 mm! For a total pace of mind, one could install a 5 mm spacer.

The best tyre calculator I have seen is here: http://www.alloywheels.com/TyreCalc.asp

Thanks for that- in that case I will try to get Toyo - fantastic in a Teo Eco version on my other car.

Here is the link to their website: http://www.toyo.com.au/OPHT.htm

pretty impressive with the tread wear rating of 640 it should outlast Bridgstones by 50%!!!

see also attachment:

TOYO_Open_Country_HT.pdf

[KevO]

what a headache lol

[kwach10]

TOYO open country has been released last month through Tyrepower, i was quoted today $350 approx for each tyre fitted and balanced, thats 245/55/19 original specs.

Im still having wear issues with the front left tyre, its wearing on the outside, and my local dealer is stumped, toyota head office said this is "NORMAL" for suburban driving....I take huge offence to this as most of us would use it in surburbia! Its like im doing something abnormal with my car!

20" is good, but hey, why not go all the way to 22"! lol

How can it be normal if one wheel is affected - this is just like Falcon few models back.

But it may be considered "normal" if you constantly drive on roads which have camber slope to the left, which normally is the case (to drain water).

Easy to see if your wheel is slightly right to keep the car on the road - if you let it go, it will slowly go left off the road.

To keep car on road by steering slightly right, you will scrub off the outside (if camber is set to positive - typical in front WD) or the inside - if the camber negative.

Possible partial solution (to minimise wear) - install camber adjusters, if adjustment not available on car. By increasing (more negative) left wheel camber, the car will stay on the road without the need to turn the wheel.

This should reduce, but not stop, the wear.

If all fails - turn the tyre over inside-out, every 10K, and swap to back.

[Blackkluger]

Yes, the camber for the kluger according to toyota is -0'38", +-45"

They have had mine set from FACTORY at -1'30", almost 3x the normal camber, im guessing, as are bridgestone, that they know of this problem and to minimise it they have already used more negative camber.

Theres probably 3-4mm left on the left most tread whereas the right side of the tyre is as new! thats after just 7k!already had the first one replaced at 9k as it was already this bad.

Has anyone checked their alignement and check what camber is set on theirs? Toyota said if they set it at the -0'38" it would worsen this wear...which seems correct.

[kwach10]

Yes, the camber for the kluger according to toyota is -0'38", +-45"

They have had mine set from FACTORY at -1'30", almost 3x the normal camber, im guessing, as are bridgestone, that they know of this problem and to minimise it they have already used more negative camber.

Theres probably 3-4mm left on the left most tread whereas the right side of the tyre is as new! thats after just 7k!already had the first one replaced at 9k as it was already this bad.

Has anyone checked their alignement and check what camber is set on theirs? Toyota said if they set it at the -0'38" it would worsen this wear...which seems correct.

Very odd!

I would take it to a good suspension specialist and run a 4 wheel check, with camber/castor and toe; perhaps dynamically if possible.

Maybe the whole strut needs bending?

When I will be doing a tyre change in a next few weeks, I will ask for up to -0.80 on the left front, with a bit less on the right, with a zero toe.

For rears, a toe should be out up to 0.8 on both sides to improve a turn-in. I guess, camber is non-adjustable.

[kwach10]

Just checked room between the strut and standard tyre on the back. No worries for extra 5 mm! For a total pace of mind, one could install a 5 mm spacer.

The best tyre calculator I have seen is here: http://www.alloywheels.com/TyreCalc.asp

Thanks for that- in that case I will try to get Toyo - fantastic in a Teo Eco version on my other car.

Here is the link to their website: http://www.toyo.com.au/OPHT.htm

pretty impressive with the tread wear rating of 640 it should outlast Bridgstones by 50%!!!

see also attachment:

Just got a quote form a trusted Tyrepower dealer in Melb for this Toyo (they do not have it in their book yet) - $334 each, all included. Not bad!

I bet the ACT price will be at least $20 more.

Just in - Queanbeyan (NSW) Tyrepower quote is not bad - $339.

Been advised that Toyo has a stock of 40 only and they get them intermittently, so a long waiting time is possible once the stock is gone.

Consiering the Yen conversion, the price may go up too.

Edited January 18, 2009 by kwach10

[kwach10]

Two Toyos are now on the front and here are my first impressions:

1. They look a bit skinny compared with B

2. The tread looks very impressive with two deep channels for good water dispersion - so should be good in the rain and snow!

3. The grip is excellent - tested it on a roundabout in the ACT at close to 90 km/h - not a squill but the stability sensor cut me out mid way so not fully satisfied

4. On the road to the coast showed nice control in cornering at speeds close to the comfort zone

5. Quiet even on a rough road.

By the way, the wheel alignment showed that my toe was way off both front and rear (thus excessive wear of two tyres), but the camber was OK, with left at just over -1 and the right just over -0.5, so rather lucky considering the lack of camber adjustment bolts.

I set the rear toe at just out on both sides, and the front just in.

NB.

As part of 40K service, the dealer charged me for front wheel balance (scheduled item) - they did not do it as I found out when fitting new tyres!!! So be vigilant - do not trust!

[holmesie]

kwach, so you have any pics of the Toyos fitted to your Kluger?

[kwach10]

sure here we go

By the way, I have almost new (probably less than 100 km) original Bridgstone tyre from the spare.

I would be happy to part with it for $300, which would give someone an option of a cheap pair of tyres (with their spare) as a replacement for a used pair or a replacement for badly damaged one.

I could drop it off around ACT or in Sydney, or on the way to Melbourne (the coastal route) in the second week of April (after Easter)

[holmesie]

Great looking tread kwach - thanks for the pics

[Briggsy]

sure here we go

By the way, I have almost new (probably less than 100 km) original Bridgstone tyre from the spare.

I would be happy to part with it for $300, which would give someone an option of a cheap pair of tyres (with their spare) as a replacement for a used pair or a replacement for badly damaged one.

I could drop it off around ACT or in Sydney, or on the way to Melbourne (the coastal route) in the second week of April (after Easter)

Hi Kwach10. I was one of theose unlucky ones that got a puncture on the sidewall (I used to get them in the Pajero before an inconsiderate lady shot out in front of me and caused it to be written off - couldnt be happier with the Klug though - top vehicle). Bridgies are just too expensive. I would be interested in your spare if you still have it??

[kwach10]

sure

see may email message

[kwach10]

Just got another 2 Toyos for the back, and yes, the price has gone up by $20 each

It gets even better! - soon they are going up again :o

So if you are about to need a change of rubber, better make it soon - as you might not be able to get anything for under $400 per corner

I another year or two, price relativity might be different :( (one has to believe in something!)

[Blackkluger]

Those photos dont look too bad. Can anyone tell me as its not loading, what the wear index for the bridgestone is?> apparently the toyos are 600+ but the ones on my car doesnt say anything...

[kwach10]

Those photos dont look too bad. Can anyone tell me as its not loading, what the wear index for the bridgestone is?> apparently the toyos are 600+ but the ones on my car doesnt say anything...

B are only 400! vs Toyo 640!!! (see my previous post)

if they make the size, the highest rating would be Coopers (>700)

[Blackkluger]

Coopers dont go to 19! nor 18 i dont think?

[sammy]

Chaps, on this issue of treadwear I'm happy to be corrected, but I was under the impression that the higher the no. the harder the compound.

I don't know if I would want harder compound tyres, but I certainly understand where others who need tyre replacement in 15K-20K are coming from. I'm a little fortunate I guess in that we do less than 10K a year. Having said that I had a close look over the weekend and there's probably only another 10K or so left on them, although they do seem to be wearing quite evenly.

[Colonel]

I was under the impression that the higher the no. the harder the compound.

I don't know if I would want harder compound tyres, but I certainly understand where others who need tyre replacement in 15K-20K are coming from... although they do seem to be wearing quite evenly.

Well, if we got 19" tyres that were the same compound as the KX-R's 17" tyres that should give us the same grip as the KX-R but longer lasting tyres than the KX-R since we have 2 inches more rubber. It seems Toyota perhaps just put 19" tyres on the upper model Klugers simply 'cause that's the fashion these days. 17" may suit the car better.