Modifications requiring engineering certificates ????

[xoom]

Ok guys to cut a long story short i was pulled over for a random RBT which led to the whole "we need to look over ur car"

in the process the boys in blue made many many many many comments ..... in particular they noted my exhaust system ..... at which point he proceeds to tell me that not only is the 90dB rule in place BUT if the car is made post 1998 and an after market exhaust is fitted an engineering certificate is required .....

now this is where all the threats begin about pitting me n issuing defects etc begin lets just say im glad im not on my p's and im glad i do have an engineering certificate ..... which these poor chaps weren't expecting ...... its a witch hunt for no reason ......

Now the 1998 rule i had never heard before ...... anyone else here heard of that ?

Now ive been doing some more research and from wat i can find in all honesty any modification which is actually above "an optional extra from factory" or "equivalent to an optional extra" actually needs an engineering certificate. This appears to be the stance from the RTA. If you read VSI 06 - Guidelines for light vehicle modifications (Apr 2005) located on this page http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/dow...si/vsi_dl1.html there is a paragraph which reads

"Owner certified minor modifications are generally those modifications which were optional equipment for the

vehicle concerned. Owner certified modifications also include some non-standard modifications of a minor nature

which do not affect the level of safety, strength or reliability of vital systems such as brakes and steering. These

modifications have little or no impact upon the vehicle’s level of compliance with the Australian Design Rules."

Now to me this is so up for interpretation if there is nothing mentioned in the ADR ..... i searched the ADR files and other than the 90dB issue and some emissions levels i couldnt find anything about exhaust systems which is related to 1998 ...... So is this just BS ...... im soooo thinking of printing all this and carrying it in the car ......

As a side note from looking through the ADR honestly they are pretty crudy and i dont even think the boys in blue can understand them but if your interested they are located here: http://www.dotars.gov.au/roads/motor/design/adr_online.aspx

need to be a lawyer to work out wat the hell is going on

another interesting read: http://www.openroad.com.au/makeover_monster.asp

So yeah i think the mentality is make it as hard as possible for people to work out what is going on that we can then tell the poor 19 yr old p plater to fork out and pay a fine that they wont even be able to prove as being false .......

Your thoughts people ?????

cheers

Bill

[xoom]

more interesting reading

http://www.airpowersystems.com/falcon/legalities.htm

looks like i wasnt far off the money ...... keep the car standard or engineering certification is required based on this paragraph:

"When the engine is modified, be it a cold air intake or the whole works, the relevant authorities automatically deem that that vehicle no longer complies and it is illegal for the owner to drive that vehicle on public roads. Whether technically the vehicle does or does not comply, the authorities still deem it to not comply unless the vehicle owner can produce relevant documentation."

[sinan]

farrrr out. so xoom for my CAI and exhaust do i have to get an engineers certificate? and if so does anyone know where i can get one from and how much do they cost?

[Grey-Rolla]

Heres my story, i think polices are getting out of hand, they arent giving ppl a fair go and i thought Australia was about giving ppl a fair go. I pulled over on last friday, for random RBT, unlucky my magnetic p plates on the outside were stolen that day during uni (im on my green Ps, and have 2 weeks before i get my fulls). I thought to myself luckily i got magnetic P plates inside the car, but i was fined $185 and 2 points, i have never had any infringement after driving for 3 years. The cop told me to drive in side a car park and took fotos of my p plates, i think this is bs coz, there was no light shinning and it 8pm at night of coz its gonna be dark, secondly he took fotos with hes fone which does not provide quality or light. He also threatened to fine me for my mods eg. CAI. I was being polite to the police officer, and when he gave me the fine for my p plates not showing, i asked him how can i get this appeal this matter, he threatened to give me more fines eg the CAI, hes exact words "mate i got plenty of ink do want another fine?" ive ran into some good cops, but some cops are very intimidating and power hungry.

I got fined for doing the right thing, the P plates i got in the car are ones i purchase from autobahn, and they are made for interior window, u can see them clearly when there is adequate light.

So P Platers keep spares of ps in ur car, thats my advice.

[alarum]

I got fined for doing the right thing, the P plates i got in the car are ones i purchase from autobahn, and they are made for interior window, u can see them clearly when there is adequate light.

You weren't doing the right thing, though. Since July 1 you HAVE (i.e. requirement of driving while on a Provisionary license) to display your P plates on the exterior of your car. EOS.

So P Platers keep spares of ps in ur car, thats my advice.

That's really good advice. ;-)

Sounded like the cop was on a bit of a power trip. It gets like that.

[kelvin33]

this is juz so full of BS... taxpayers are wasting money feeding all these overgrown P.O.S... only knowing to get more money from the government without actually doing their job!!!

[yoshi]

I thinks maybe it is time we start a little new section which (attempts) to list out the laws for modifications. Perhaps we need one topic for each state, I know I wouldn't mind doing a little bit of research into QLD laws. The section could possibly be on the front page or in the car related topics. Any Mods think this ia a good idea?

[CAP]

Much is open to interpretation, even in print, the legislation leaves a few grey areas.

The best things to do to save yourself headaches:

-Firstly keep yourself informed of what the regulations are, have a read of both road authority and epa guidelines, it will take you all of 20 minutes and remember much of it is state specific, so don't follow links posted, look it up yourself.

-Keep a hard copy in the car. If you know you are being wrongly done by, point out in print what it says and state your following the printed regs. It wont always help, like I stated, its open to interpretation, but you do also get to talk to reasonable people sometimes.

-Don't draw attention to yourself, if you do something wrong, then expect to be worked over, simple as that.

[CHA54]

once the NCOP comes in, basically anything that isn't stock requires an engineering report. The NSW report for my forester is 11 pages long as it covers every modification to the car, the equivalent piece of paper for the forester in QLD is a single A5 sized slip of paper.

When the NCOP is in place, vehicle engineering and certification will align in all the states.

[CAP]

When is NCOP due to come in? Where can I find further information on it?

[CHA54]

DOTARS has NCOP info

[CAP]

Here it is if anyone wants a look.

http://www.dotars.gov.au/roads/safety/bulletin/vsb_ncop.aspx

[selyaT]

As far as I'm concerned, a police officer has no right to look into my engine bay anyhow. My car has a registration sticker, my car has passed the pits, they need not be concerned about anything else. We have designated roadside inspection vehciles/personnel for that in the ACT.

[Grey-Rolla]

I got fined for doing the right thing, the P plates i got in the car are ones i purchase from autobahn, and they are made for interior window, u can see them clearly when there is adequate light.

You weren't doing the right thing, though. Since July 1 you HAVE (i.e. requirement of driving while on a Provisionary license) to display your P plates on the exterior of your car. EOS.

So P Platers keep spares of ps in ur car, thats my advice.

That's really good advice. ;-)

Sounded like the cop was on a bit of a power trip. It gets like that.

Mate i did the right, i normally have 3 p plates on my car, 2 inside one out side on the back, the back got stolen while i was at uni.

[qkslvr]

reading all this makes my blood boil! this thread is yet another fine example of over policing and stupid policy in places that do not need it. I can't help but think there is some old twaty nerd that hates cars and the modified car scene putting all these laws in place...We'll all be driving stock commodores soon!

[D'Ice]

reading all this makes my blood boil! this thread is yet another fine example of over policing and stupid policy in places that do not need it. I can't help but think there is some old twaty nerd that hates cars and the modified car scene putting all these laws in place...We'll all be driving stock commodores soon!

wat he said...

can you actually refuse to pop your hood? i know of a friend that recently attatched a solenoid to the mechanism and canceled the manual lever thingee... can he get busted for that if he like tells em that it doesnt work or wateva? that'd be a pretty sweet move

[CHA54]

some people do that so they only get defected for the faulty bonnet release, it usually ends up with you having to go over the pits for a complete inspection.

[alarum]

Mate i did the right, i normally have 3 p plates on my car, 2 inside one out side on the back, the back got stolen while i was at uni.

If you insist. Contrary to what the law says, you're obviously above it.

[MT]

Mate i did the right, i normally have 3 p plates on my car, 2 inside one out side on the back, the back got stolen while i was at uni.

If you insist. Contrary to what the law says, you're obviously above it.

I dont think comments like this are neccessary at all. Any Law Enforcement figure will tell you that all laws are open to interpretation, they are not set in concrete.

And i'm sure you have never EVER broken a law in your life you wonderful law abiding citizen

You cant blame Grey-Rolla for having his p plates stolen off the back of his car... do you check the back of your car before you hop in? i certainly dont, unless the back is facing me as i was walking towards it. how would u know if it was stolen or not? if it was stolen a week ago and hadnt been replaced - maybe a ticket is worthwhile.

Grey Rolla, I reckon the cop was just desperate to catch you for something mate, you got the rough end of the stick as far as i'm concerned. and the darkalley/camera phone thing is just dodgy. I'd take the ticket to your local cop shop and sit and speak with an officer, and explain the situation. Whats the worst that could happen, you still get the ticket.

[Grey-Rolla]

Thanks Mikey Tee, thats what i did, i did it that very night, they said i can appeal, by writing a letter, and if that fails i can take it to court.

I hate the fact the cop s are targeting P platers, not all P Platers are hoons.

Just say wat if ur p platers fall off? or get stolen? automatically u can cop a fine! i rekon that is full of f$%%%^ BS. At the same time those who cant see my interior p plates shouldnt be driving at all, you must have eye problems to be unable to see my p plates.

What really pi#$ed me of is that while he was telling my defects, a done up muscle car drive in for rbt, as loud as a harley even when he isnt rev, smoke pouring from the zorst, got let off without even a check up.

This is just ridiculous, thank *** im getting my fulls in 2 weeks i dont have to put up with this shiet anymore.

[CHA54]

am I mistaken or does the law not state that you need external p plates on the front and the rear?

[MT]

am I mistaken or does the law not state that you need external p plates on the front and the rear?

I believe in NSW it is as of recently. however something that minor which could be explained, i dont personally think is such a big issue

[CAP]

So you guys need to have your P plates on the outside of the car?

Also, what's this I'm reading about Green Plates?

Regarding the muscle car, they can bring out the Year of manufacture/different regs line on that one.

[CHA54]

in NSW from the RTA website:

"L or P plates may no longer be displayed from inside your vehicle. All learner and provisional drivers must clearly display their L and P plates on the front and back of the outside of the vehicle. The letters L and P on the plate must not be hidden. The penalty for incorrectly displayed plates is two demerit points and a fine."

[xoom]

in NSW from the RTA website:

"L or P plates may no longer be displayed from inside your vehicle. All learner and provisional drivers must clearly display their L and P plates on the front and back of the outside of the vehicle. The letters L and P on the plate must not be hidden. The penalty for incorrectly displayed plates is two demerit points and a fine."

the stupid legislators certainly have not thought this one through ........ i can just see how many letters they will receive about the fact that they fell off .... must have been flogged etc etc ..... really i think a total waste of time .....