Stability Control

[riftime]

Hi all,

How exactly does the VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) work on the Aurion / Presara ? Is it present all the time, or does it kick in only at high speeds ? The suspension still feels "soft", although cornering at high speed I have noticed an increased "stiffness" and reduction in roll which would have been expected if the softness was maintained.

Is there a way to turn it off (like the traction control) to compare VSC with no-VSC ?

Thanks.

[X-Power]

i sopose when you trun of traction control, atuomaticly turns off Stability Control as well.

T/C , S/C they more active on higher speeds than low speeds, they always working together to give the car best possible grip. and ofcourse on higher speeds car losing handling faster quicker than lower speeds.

they are pretty much work together, or i better say they are same thing. they both reduce power or even brake when wheels lose traction/grip.

im not sure if Aurion have active susppension but if it does, then yes thats why you can feel the stiffness

[Danos]

Hi all,

How exactly does the VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) work on the Aurion / Presara ? Is it present all the time, or does it kick in only at high speeds ? The suspension still feels "soft", although cornering at high speed I have noticed an increased "stiffness" and reduction in roll which would have been expected if the softness was maintained.

Is there a way to turn it off (like the traction control) to compare VSC with no-VSC ?

Thanks.

Here is a thread on traction control. It can be turned off but it's not as easy as some cars cause Toyota didn't think to put in a simple switch or button.

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/inde...showtopic=13947

[riftime]

I had a quick look at the Toyota page, the AT-X (not sure about sportivo range) does NOT have vehicle stability Control. The Prodigy and Presara does.

The replies above however talk about Traction Control which uses engine power management and ABC to achieve it. Are you sure that this is the the same manner in which stability control is achieved? I also noticed that stability control was also referred to as Steering Control. Perhaps this is more of a power steering control to ensure that you can't swerve too hard at high speed and lose control (I had something like this on my old Calais).

My (novice) understanding of vehicle stability control tells me that there must be some kind of active suspension, but perhaps there's different ways to achieve it. I know that many of the european cars use the active suspension, and they can still call it stability control. In some of them you would even have options for the suspension comfort level (soft / firm / sports).

A bit disappointed if the Aurion stability control is purely based on using ABS and engine power management to achieve it, I think that only takes it a part of the way, you'd need active suspension to make it a lot more effective.

[Hyo]

I had a quick look at the Toyota page, the AT-X (not sure about sportivo range) does NOT have vehicle stability Control. The Prodigy and Presara does.

I have only little knowledge about how SC works, but I think all Aurion models have VSC, across the range.

[SmellyTofu]

I had a quick look at the Toyota page, the AT-X (not sure about sportivo range) does NOT have vehicle stability Control. The Prodigy and Presara does.

The replies above however talk about Traction Control which uses engine power management and ABC to achieve it. Are you sure that this is the the same manner in which stability control is achieved? I also noticed that stability control was also referred to as Steering Control. Perhaps this is more of a power steering control to ensure that you can't swerve too hard at high speed and lose control (I had something like this on my old Calais).

My (novice) understanding of vehicle stability control tells me that there must be some kind of active suspension, but perhaps there's different ways to achieve it. I know that many of the european cars use the active suspension, and they can still call it stability control. In some of them you would even have options for the suspension comfort level (soft / firm / sports).

A bit disappointed if the Aurion stability control is purely based on using ABS and engine power management to achieve it, I think that only takes it a part of the way, you'd need active suspension to make it a lot more effective.

When you have money to purchase a GS450h, then talk us about AVS (or the newer type of TEMS, not the same as the old MA70 Supra that was sold in Australia) and how it links in with Pre-Collision System that detects an accident is imminent via a radar then increases brake boost pressure, pre-arms seat belt tensioning as well as stiffen up the suspensions which then ties it with ABS, VSC and TRC. AVS is however available on all GS. VGRS is on the GS450h and this sharpens the steering and helps you correct a small slide without steering input. All of this is available right now... at a price and the European manufacturers have on their upper end vehicles, not $3x,000 family cars.

VSC on most common cars relies on reducing power and individually controlling each brake to control the car. This in itself is a sophisticated system that no driver can achieve with a normal 3 pedal setup.

Btw, VSC is standard across the Aurion range as well as 6 airbags.

[Hiro]

VSC on most common cars relies on reducing power and individually controlling each brake to control the car. This in itself is a sophisticated system that no driver can achieve with a normal 3 pedal setup.

Quoted for truth. Most traction control and vehicle stability control systems work through the ABS system. ABS allows monitoring of individual wheel conditions, thus coupled with independent brake actuation (say with EBD - electronic brakeforce distribution), the braking power of each wheel can be adjusted to settle the car and keep it stable.

Active suspension is still a few years away from being standard on most cars, you tend to have to pay over $100k for a car that has it (as it's usually a luxury feature)

As an aside, older cars with traction control that didn't have ABS would retard or cut the ignition to reduce power, as opposed to applying individual brakes. This is somewhat akin to taking pulling the power plug out from a computer because it won't shut down. Modern systems are much more effective, and much more complex.

[riftime]

Great info, thank you all. Made things a lot clearer. My novice understanding was that Stability Control implies suspension control as well, but now I know better.

My disappointment is not so great that the Aurion doesn't have suspension control on top of the 4-independent brake controls. Sounds pretty good as is. Thanks again.

[SmellyTofu]

Something interesting in line with this topic...

FLV file (85Mb)

It's an interesting video that runs for 11mins showing some active safety items bit by bit from the driver's seat as well as IPA..... some of which are available here, some that are not.

Video courtesy of Nihoncar.com

[Tmaster100]

Has anyone taken their Aurion to a skidpan to test out the VSC? Only recently rumours i have been hearing is that the VSC is crap on the Aurions, in fact it's crap across the entire Toyota range of vehicles with it fitted. Fancy the worlds richest automotive car maker can't even develop a decent VSC system. What hope do we have??

Whilst it's worth noting i also find the Traction Control to be crap. I am able to spin the front wheel half way around a roundabout before it kicks in yet when it's wet it can't wait to drop the power to the wheel(s). All other cars that i have had with Traction Control stop the wheels from slipping fast, no matter the conditions. I guess being able to spin the front wheels is a godsend afterall ???

[Emmanuel]

I strongly believe that all cars should be fitted with VSC and TC, especially VSC.

VSC works by detecting a potential spin caused by abrupt steering inputs usually at high speeds. The VSC module will then individually brake any of the four wheels individually or simuntaneously to counter act the spin therefore stabilising the car. By removing the need for the driver to make this steering correction to the spin, he or she can focus on the steering. This can be a life saving feature simply because human reaction times on average are not quick enough to make the steering correction. The VSC modules are even quicker at detecting vehicle instability than Michael Schumacher.

Traction Control on the other hand is like the opposite of ABS. It either works on the Differential end or the braking end. Power is modulated on the drive wheel if a lost of traction is detected. When traction loss is detected, power is cut from the drive wheel/wheels by using one of the two methods I mentioned above.

More info:

Manny

[SmellyTofu]

Abrupt steering inputs does not need to happen for VSC to kick in. I do suggest you see the video above as it breaks down ABS only, ABS + VSC together, ABS + VSC + TRC + AVS + Active steering (or VDIM which controls the lot as one unit as opposed to separate units).

VSC still allows you to spin the car at extreme conditions and only when there is grip to the road. If there is no grip, VSC will not work effectively.

[Emmanuel]

Abrupt steering inputs does not need to happen for VSC to kick in. I do suggest you see the video above as it breaks down ABS only, ABS + VSC together, ABS + VSC + TRC + AVS + Active steering (or VDIM which controls the lot as one unit as opposed to separate units).

VSC still allows you to spin the car at extreme conditions and only when there is grip to the road. If there is no grip, VSC will not work effectively.

Ah ok. But why is it that ESP helped (refer to that video link on youtube) in the conditions of extreme ice in Europe which probably has minimal grip?

Is Toyota's VSC not as good as other ESP modules of different manufacturers?

Do you have a website link that has got some information about the VSC module breakdown?

Cheers.

Manny

[SmellyTofu]

It's helping as it's holding the brakes and sliding the car in a correct manner. However, you still can spin a car with VSC and in this case, it has enough traction with studded winter tyres to correct it. The laws of physics apply equally to every single car with or without VSC. Btw, Tiff was driving like a bit of a lunatic then though to over dramatise the situation for TV and some, he didn't explain properly like traction control.

VSC is not inferior in Toyota as they are on any manufacturer. If you're saying that, then you might as well say the airbags in a particular brand is not as good as another brand... Like Jez and his stupidity in the Wheels mag roll over... people in the know tell me that he was doing well over the speed he claimed he did at the time of the accident. Fortunately for him, the Kluger held up and saved him.. which he failed to mention.

[Tmaster100]

Your also forgetting that most use the Bosch ESP system however the vehicle manufacturer calibrates it. The trouble with Toyota is that haven't spent enough time and money calibrating the ESP (or VSC as it's known) so therefore it receives critcism from many auto magazines and journalists over it's late response time when it's needed most. It could be enough to kill you or will Toyota wait until this happens before they rectify this shortfall? Probably so.....