TRD's Dyno Run

[SecaBoy]

i posted this in my members thread, but thought id post it in here as well in case people dont read my thread... if a mod wants to delete it, feel free... :)

i took the car to predator tonight for a dyno night...

after realising they cant run it on the dyno without turning the traction control off, they took the car off and i went on the net in their shop and found out the procedure to turn it off (thanks to TOCAU!! lol)...

so 4 cars later, my car went back on the dyno...

imo, those guys SERIOUSLY have no idea what they're doing on there... apparently the front of the car has no tow hooks, so they strapped it to the lower control arms... but every time he started going for it, it would come up on the rollers... so they also put the handbrake ON, so it would stop coming up on the rollers...

wouldnt that restrict the power because of the friction of the brakes being on?

then he reckoned that with ALL autos, you cant run it like a normal manual car where you just put your foot down because it kicks down a gear (even though he put it in tiptronic mode)...

i dont know much about dynos, but i reckon thats a load of BS... APC ran my old corolla on the dyno when it was auto and it never 'kicked down a gear'...

so anyway, as a result, the graph looks NOTHING like a normal graph and i dont even understand what its doing on it...

anyway, after all that, it made 248HP at the treads, which is 185kw...

i was only expecting a max of 180kw... so i'm happy...

plus the engine has only done 3,000kms... and i know with my accord euro, i didnt feel vtec (kick in yo!) until 10,000kms... so once the engine gets more kms on it, it may make slightly more power... who knows...

either way, it gives me a good idea of the base kws of the car... ;)

[Rolla Boy]

There are no tow hooks on the front of the Aurions... You do have the tow bolts tho which you could've screwed into the front and tied it down from there but anyway...

In regards to the handbrake, won't have any effect with your car as it's FWD, the handbrake is only locking the rear wheels...

Auto would possibly kick down but that would depend on the speed and amount of acceleration applied but with Tip Tronic mode, should've been fine to remain in 4th gear...

[SecaBoy]

thanks for the clarification...

as i said, i dont know much about dynos and how they operate... :)

and excuse my brain seizure... i just realised that the handbrake only 'brakes' the rear wheels...

its late, and i didnt sleep last night... so just ignore that comment...

Edited May 22, 2008 by SecaBoy

[Rolla Boy]

No probs dude... I don't know all that much either but have mechanics on my mind 24/7 :) ...

[AcoustiK]

with all that tow hook debacle

take it to a dynapack dyno, better readout minus the mass of the wheels (give slightly higher readout) and takes the variances of tyres.

Can you scan / photo the graph, would love to see the curves, even tho u say its wierd looking.

[Buri_ZR6]

i posted this in my members thread, but thought id post it in here as well in case people dont read my thread... if a mod wants to delete it, feel free... :)

i took the car to predator tonight for a dyno night...

after realising they cant run it on the dyno without turning the traction control off, they took the car off and i went on the net in their shop and found out the procedure to turn it off (thanks to TOCAU!! lol)...

so 4 cars later, my car went back on the dyno...

imo, those guys SERIOUSLY have no idea what they're doing on there... apparently the front of the car has no tow hooks, so they strapped it to the lower control arms... but every time he started going for it, it would come up on the rollers... so they also put the handbrake ON, so it would stop coming up on the rollers...

wouldnt that restrict the power because of the friction of the brakes being on?

then he reckoned that with ALL autos, you cant run it like a normal manual car where you just put your foot down because it kicks down a gear (even though he put it in tiptronic mode)...

i dont know much about dynos, but i reckon thats a load of BS... APC ran my old corolla on the dyno when it was auto and it never 'kicked down a gear'...

so anyway, as a result, the graph looks NOTHING like a normal graph and i dont even understand what its doing on it...

anyway, after all that, it made 248HP at the treads, which is 185kw...

i was only expecting a max of 180kw... so i'm happy...

plus the engine has only done 3,000kms... and i know with my accord euro, i didnt feel vtec (kick in yo!) until 10,000kms... so once the engine gets more kms on it, it may make slightly more power... who knows...

either way, it gives me a good idea of the base kws of the car... ;)

let me tell you, after 15000km service, you will feel slightly more power. the car feels way smoother and faster.

[SILVABULLIT]

Nice output there mate. Good results!!! Obviously not an experienced dyno operator by the sounds of it. Anyway you up for the TOCAU dyno day later in the year at CES?? Love to hear it on the dyno. have a look in the trader section under CES' logo.

[jonbays]

184kw at the wheels is a good result for a car wth a 200kw claimed output at the flywheel. I hvae done a lot of dyno tuning and you usually expect to lose around 20% in driveline losses.

I have seen plenty of the old 5L Holden and Ford V8's do less than this too by the way.

The operator doesn't sound to well trained though. Turning off traction control is a must though to be fair it's a bit awkward in an Aurion compared to most other cars. For a maximum power run at a dyno day you would usually run it in the 1:1 gear (4th) and ease it up to 160 or around 4500rpm then floor it to avoid kickdown. You should watch the correction factors too as with inexperienced operators they can stuff this up. If you see numbers like AT 25 and IT 45 etc then it's buggered even if it is in shootout mode.

The only way you could get a full rev range graph of maximum output in a modern auto is in first and then it would climb off the rollers or wheelspin anyway. In the good old days we used to just pull off the kickdown cable or pull the plug off the back of the kickdown switch.

[nate11six]

184kw at the wheels is a good result for a car wth a 200kw claimed output at the flywheel. I hvae done a lot of dyno tuning and you usually expect to lose around 20% in driveline losses.

I have seen plenty of the old 5L Holden and Ford V8's do less than this too by the way.

The operator doesn't sound to well trained though. Turning off traction control is a must though to be fair it's a bit awkward in an Aurion compared to most other cars. For a maximum power run at a dyno day you would usually run it in the 1:1 gear (4th) and ease it up to 160 or around 4500rpm then floor it to avoid kickdown. You should watch the correction factors too as with inexperienced operators they can stuff this up. If you see numbers like AT 25 and IT 45 etc then it's buggered even if it is in shootout mode.

The only way you could get a full rev range graph of maximum output in a modern auto is in first and then it would climb off the rollers or wheelspin anyway. In the good old days we used to just pull off the kickdown cable or pull the plug off the back of the kickdown switch.

Correct me if I am wrong... but I thought the TRD Aurion has a claimed power of 241kw at the fly wheel?

Anyway, not a bad result man! One tough car I must say, and soooo quick!

Let's see the graph!

[jonbays]

quote]

Correct me if I am wrong... but I thought the TRD Aurion has a claimed power of 241kw at the fly wheel?

Anyway, not a bad result man! One tough car I must say, and soooo quick!

Let's see the graph!

Yes you're right and that does makes more sense too 241 at the fly 184 at the wheels 24% transmission loss.

[Adrian]

The losses are rather large

[CHA54]

Ash,

The graph you posted in the other thread looks like the injectors are maxing out in the top end, the AFR line does exactly that when you hit max duty cycle before you hit your revlimit. Apart from that the graph looks as I'd expect it to look for the supercharged 6.

Speaking to Wade about the power drop, he mentioned the intake temp would be a contributing factor. I'd say there's some merit in that too considering the intake temps you'd get with repeated dyno runs on the non-intercooled setup.

[SecaBoy]

sorry for the delay... here is the dyno graph...

SILVABULLIT: yeah, if i still have the car then, i'll bring it... :P hahaha

Thanks for the all the comments guys...

[nate11six]

That's the weirdest graph I've seen...

Still, the output is great.

Oi Ash! Is the TRD loud yet?

[SecaBoy]

nah its not loud yet...

i was gonna make it loud for the annual meet, but i dont have the time to do so... :(

once i make it loud, i'll bring it out one thursday night... :D

[AcoustiK]

With a FWD the losses are less as compared to a RWD, around 15%-25% rule of thumb so it sounds about right.

As for the graph, 3rd Gear? I thought with a 6 speeder they would go higher like 4th.

A proper dyno would involve a well ventilated big fan in-front of the car to offset any intercooler/ramming of the air.

[leasaunce]

noiceee!! the TRD aurion should be making 180ish kw@FW (normal aurion is 145ish kw@FW).

[jonbays]

Nice to see the chart but it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me the AFR's are way too rich till 134 kmh when the throttle must have been backed off with it still being run up to 143 kmh. This is a bit odd? Why would you do that on a power run?

This is third gear which in an Aurion depending on wheels and tyres is around 24kmh per 1,000 rpm. So you would expect to see a power run from 5,000 rpm to 6250 rpm or 120 to 150kmh. The peak power here is shown at 134 kmh or about 5500rpm which is well short of what I would expect of 150 kmh and 6250 rpm.

Also I would wonder why the intake temp is 5 degrees colder than the atmospheric temp?

[ZZR88]

Nice figures!

I remember seeing a clip of DAR1US's sportivo on the dyno.

Ran a 157.8kw @ fw

Edited May 27, 2008 by ZZR88

[AcoustiK]

Nice figures!

I remember seeing a clip of DAR1US's sportivo on the dyno.

Ran a 157.8kw @ fw

I didnt get to see it, have you got a link to the thread or clip?

[ZZR88]

Nice figures!

I remember seeing a clip of DAR1US's sportivo on the dyno.

Ran a 157.8kw @ fw

I didnt get to see it, have you got a link to the thread or clip?

Yip i got a link, dont think it was ever posted up in the forum for some reason.

I think it was a dyno day or something, cause the same guy who posted it up also had clips of other cars.

1st clip is the link for DAR1US's run, 2nd clip is clips of the other cars.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=neotobahamut

Edited May 28, 2008 by ZZR88

[stav]

Could not help myself ..especially with christmas coming.. Hello Mr Jonbays:) The end of that dyno sheet looks like the accelerator has been released and the deceleration fuel shut off has kicked in. If it ran out of injector then the pistons /rods would be in the sump.Kaboom!!!

Yes I am an old mate of Mr Bays from the ford days and yes I also own 99 camry .But main car is still the old ford.

The operator magically made intake temps lower than ambient..a trick used to alter dyno readings. Have you any intention of running the car at wsid ? Have you guys got a timeslip database? I am interested to see what 1/4 mile times are being done for the trd and na aurions..

Cheers

Stav

[fnfat6]

The losses are rather large

i agree there is a big loss there,

for example an xr6t makes 230 at the fly and will dyno around the 190 atws mark, i thought a trd aurion being FWD and having more power would possibly be up to 200 ish .

though dont ever take a dyno as gosble, so many different factors in weather, humidity, what brand the dyno is or what mods its on, also theres such a thing as day shoft engines. sometimes u could be lucky and get a freak engine sometimes u can get a below par engine even though they are made at same place , same day etc

also general rule of thumb is that a FWD will have less drive train loss then a RWD and AWD, but this is not set in stone its just a general rule ,

either way its well and truly in v8 terrirtoy so it should be smiles all round :)

[the_random_hero]

Lol, I wouldn't trust any figures that came from Predator :P

[CHA54]

The leanout's not from overrun fuel cut, overrun fuel cut is MUCH leaner than that, AFR would be off the scale.

For the figures to be inflated in shootout mode, the intake temp needs to be higher than ambient temp.