Swap for what?

[Rolla94]

Hi everyone! I have been thinking lately about upgrading the 4A-FE beast in my AE101R rolla and I need some help. This upgrade may have something to do with my mate buying a 2007 focus and it beating my car... which isnt allowed! :P. But the ultimate reason is I love the rolla's shape and how it drives *after the suspension upgrade* but the AFE just isnt doing it for me.

I have been doing a LOT of forum searching and have narrowed down some possibilities for the rolla. Keeping in mind im on a bit of a budget. Im tossing up between the almighty 20V Blacktop and the 4AGZE maybe later turning it into a 4AGTE or maybe even a 3S-GTE (but I don't know about that one). Now I've read the way to go is getting a halfcut and then transplanting the engine and tranny. Question time!

1) Approx how much would each engine cost as halfcut or by itself?

2) Which is easiest and cheapest to install? *Im not mechanically minded so it would probably end up at a workshop*

3) Which one is the best bang for buck?

4) Which one will give me the best all round performance?

5) If I were to by it by itself would my manual need strengthening? *besides clutch*

I'm leaning towards the 20V BT since VVT is just plain awesome and it would be cheaper to insure and look after, also the 2 inch cat back system I have now on the AFE wont need expanding for the 20V BT? BUT blow off valves are sooooooooooooooo cool! and I think the GZE would get more power in the long run?

PLEASE!!! help me out guys I need all the wisdom that can be shed on this to help make my rolla a tidy little sleeper.

[CHA54]

I've done many engine swaps to corolla's, including AE101 20V, AE111 20V, MAP 4agze, 4agte etc... IMO 20V is a waste of time and money, unless you rebuild the bottom end with good rods and forged pistons and go turbo ;)

1) Approx how much would each engine cost as halfcut or by itself? a good AE111 6-speed 20V or AE101 4agze with LSD box cut will both be around the $2500 mark or higher.

2) Which is easiest and cheapest to install? *Im not mechanically minded so it would probably end up at a workshop* AE101 GZE is a lot easier to install in terms of wiring required. with the AE111 they changed the power routing in the looms so it's a lot more complex to do the wiring loom the right way.

3) Which one is the best bang for buck? 4agze by far.

4) Which one will give me the best all round performance? 4agze, and then it also gives you further options down the track to go turbo by simply removing all the charger crap, installing a smallport 4age intake manifold and then bolting on a suitable turbo setup for an easy 130kw atw on 11ish psi with stock ECU/injectors etc.

5) If I were to by it by itself would my manual need strengthening? *besides clutch* Dont bother trying to do the conversion without a frontcut. It will cost you a LOT more.

I'm leaning towards the 20V BT since VVT is just plain awesome and it would be cheaper to insure and look after, also the 2 inch cat back system I have now on the AFE wont need expanding for the 20V BT? BUT blow off valves are sooooooooooooooo cool! and I think the GZE would get more power in the long run?

-2" cat back isn't big enough for a blacktop, need at least 2.25.

-GZE can't run a BOV

-GZE will make more power stock, and in the long run with mods etc. a lot more torque than a 20V too.

Remember to change the waterpump, plugs, timing belt, oil seals, clutch hoses, filters etc etc etc all while the engine is out of the car. Only use toyota genuine coolant.

If you're getting a workshop to do the job, write out your budget, then double it.

You'll always get 20V fanboi's trying to tell you they're better, but I'm telling you from years of experience and many of my own and other's engine conversions.

[Rolla94]

Woah! Thankyou so much rollamods for the information. :D that helps a lot! Oh and yeah I meant BOV after I turbo the GZE infact id work it before it went into my corolla, not much

of a supercharger fan.

So the 3S-GTE is pretty much a waste of time? better off heading down the GZE street?

[CHA54]

I'd personally go for the 3sgte... but then you take your 4agze swap budget and either double or triple it if the job's being done by a workshop...

To do the 3S, grab an SW20 turbo gearbox and a FWD E series box, swap the FWD shift linkages to the MR2 box, then grab some AE101 GZE gearbox mounts and shafts, attach the SW20 box to your motor, AE101 GZE mounts to the 3S box, bolt the assembly to the car leaving the timing cover mount out. Once it's all in and aligned, fabricate a timing cover engine mount to work... some people use a stock engine mount and modify the brackets on the chassis, others modify the mount itself that goes between the engine and chassis.

Sort out some custom PS and AC lines, use a GT4 accelerator cable and radiator, make custom mounts to use the GT4 radiator, bolt in the AE101 GZE shafts and possibly modify the carrier bracket to suit the 3S block.

Once that's done, then it's just the wiring, if you're using a GT4 loom it will probably be a bit easier to mod than the SW20 engine loom. I'd personally start with an ST205 frontcut and an MR2 gearbox (ST205 cuts are still quite expensive, the last good one I bought was over $5K but it was "like-new")

once again, change all seals, waterpump etc etc.

I usually spend about $1-1.5K on refreshing a frontcut before installing it.

[the_random_hero]

13B, hands down :)

I've seen a few 4A-GTZE's going around, you should grab one of those. Mate it up to a W57 box and she'll be awesome :)

[scrolla]

How about putting in a 2zzge?

Has anyone done that before 2zzge into older corolla?

[CHA54]

Either ZZ will fit, the 2zz has been swapped into the AE112 chassis in the US.

The sump sits 40mm lower from the crank centerline than the 4A sump, 1 custom mount, either convert the fuel system to returnless or convert the zz rail to return style to match the current AE fuel setup.

Then you have the usual mods with regard to custom PS and AC lines, loom mods, use a jap ECU with no immobiliser or a full aftermarket ECU (Powerfc/Vipec etc), custom headers to clear the driveshaft and steering rack, custom intake, find a suitable radiator with the right inlet/outlet locations and custom hoses (7afe or 4afe will go close to working), then use a ZZE throttle cable and you're almost there.

[toneemee]

How about putting in a 2zzge?

Has anyone done that before 2zzge into older corolla?

in that case..... i will be very very very very scare when it makes a speedy high angle turn, it won't be easy to handle...

[CHA54]

How about putting in a 2zzge?

Has anyone done that before 2zzge into older corolla?

in that case..... i will be very very very very scare when it makes a speedy high angle turn, it won't be easy to handle...

It would handle better than a sportivo, the AE corolla's actually have a proper IRS rear end instead of the crappy torsion beam setup.

[Rolla94]

Lol! arent the 2zz heavier than the GZE and 3S anyways? im guessing thatd be an expensive install to...

My goal is to put down around 150-200 HP atw, im thinking the 3S is a bit steep prolly could mod a SR20DET in for the same amount :P. Would it take much modding to a 4AGTE to make those figures?

[CHA54]

Lol! arent the 2zz heavier than the GZE and 3S anyways? im guessing thatd be an expensive install to...

My goal is to put down around 150-200 HP atw, im thinking the 3S is a bit steep prolly could mod a SR20DET in for the same amount :P. Would it take much modding to a 4AGTE to make those figures?

2zz would be lighter being alloy block instead of iron block like the 4A and 3S.

150kw atw is a walk in the park for a 4agte.

[Rolla94]

Argh... so many choices... lol!

I'll have to ask my corolla what she wants to pwn with.

[toneemee]

How about putting in a 2zzge?

Has anyone done that before 2zzge into older corolla?

in that case..... i will be very very very very scare when it makes a speedy high angle turn, it won't be easy to handle...

It would handle better than a sportivo, the AE corolla's actually have a proper IRS rear end instead of the crappy torsion beam setup.

i tot the body balance will be worse off since the AE version is much lighter, by putting a 2ZZGE engine, the front weight will really make the front wheel lose traction when turning with high speed, and that's what i mean hard to handle for a speedy high angle turn. again the street formula wish to have 50/50 weight balance, and the 2003-2005 sportivo is not quite impress since it has weight balance quite away from that (something like 65/35), but not due to the torsion beam setup. however, i still dont know why they have that setup since i see no gain from that.

correct me if im wrong... im not a pro anyway....

[Hiro]

13B, hands down :)

I've seen a few 4A-GTZE's going around, you should grab one of those. Mate it up to a W57 box and she'll be awesome :)

Don't make posts like this, you're not making it obvious enough to the n00bs that you're not being serious.

And if you are being serious, you have major problems.

[SuperDave]

but not due to the torsion beam setup. however, i still dont know why they have that setup since i see no gain from that.

Cost, or just buy a 7th gen Celica.

If you're worried about screwing up the weight distribution the 3S would be the worst in that regard. The cheapest option to your goal is as Rollamods said, the 4a-gze.

Obviously being biased towards the 2zz I think that it would make an interesting swap.

[the_random_hero]

13B, hands down :)

I've seen a few 4A-GTZE's going around, you should grab one of those. Mate it up to a W57 box and she'll be awesome :)

Don't make posts like this, you're not making it obvious enough to the n00bs that you're not being serious.

And if you are being serious, you have major problems.

Yes, of course I'm going to suggest RWD engines/boxes into a FWD car I would have thought almost everybody would have immediately taken the post as a joke, but I guess not.

[Hiro]

13B, hands down :)

I've seen a few 4A-GTZE's going around, you should grab one of those. Mate it up to a W57 box and she'll be awesome :)

Don't make posts like this, you're not making it obvious enough to the n00bs that you're not being serious.

And if you are being serious, you have major problems.

Yes, of course I'm going to suggest RWD engines/boxes into a FWD car I would have thought almost everybody would have immediately taken the post as a joke, but I guess not.

You'd be surprised the number of people who don't have a clue about their cars.....

And remember that the internet is a terrible medium for sarcasm.

[xoom]

13B, hands down :)

I've seen a few 4A-GTZE's going around, you should grab one of those. Mate it up to a W57 box and she'll be awesome :)

Don't make posts like this, you're not making it obvious enough to the n00bs that you're not being serious.

And if you are being serious, you have major problems.

Yes, of course I'm going to suggest RWD engines/boxes into a FWD car I would have thought almost everybody would have immediately taken the post as a joke, but I guess not.

You'd be surprised the number of people who don't have a clue about their cars.....

And remember that the internet is a terrible medium for sarcasm.

[sarcasm]sarcastic comment goes here!!!!!![/sarcasm] ...... thats when these babies come in hand :D :D :D