oils ain't oils

[kwach10]

some good info (as previously discussed) on why using a good oil is worth it:

"The Engine Oil Bible"....

Some interesting stuff here, particularly about sludge....

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

I changed from Toy dealer recommended mineral 10-30 to Nulon full synthetic 5-40, just because they have a 6 L pack at a reasonable price.

Next, I will probably use Mobil 0-40 (as recommended by...?) since I can do both Kluger and Yaris on two 5 L packs.

[Taka]

RiceRacing recommends 0W-40 Mobil 1 but I doubt it has all the benefit there is. It is still a normal V6 ... not too highly tuned.

I opted for the 5W30 Mobil 1, same rating as Toyota uses but fully synthetic. As I will still be servicing at 10000km interval, I will have semi synthetic in the car for every 5000km.

[Colonel]

I changed from Toy dealer recommended mineral 10-30 to Nulon full synthetic 5-40, just because they have a 6 L pack at a reasonable price.

Next, I will probably use Mobil 0-40 (as recommended by...?) since I can do both Kluger and Yaris on two 5 L packs.

How much is it for 6L Nulon 5-40?

How much for 5L of Mobil 0W-40?

I thought you just need the better stuff for very low temperatures???

[kwach10]

Indeed!

Where my cars mostly drive, it normally gets down to -5 and sometimes even less (-10). And I go to the snow too!

I have been using synthetics for long, long time with 2 cars doing over 200K and not a smoke or bad sound from the engine.

My choice was a Dutch brand with 10 (now 5) -40, and recently a German brand, with 5-40.

But Mobil 0-40 appears to be a more advanced product (really synthetic?) and extra protection at the start up will be good.

I agree with Rice that 30 is rather low for hot OZ weather in terms of viscosity.

I would use 5-40 Mobil, but it is semi only (now in my new Yaris for up to 10K) so 0-40 it will be.

castrol 0-40 is $70 - a bit rich!

Nulon I bough for around $65 for 6 L - good value (possibly on special).

Mobil is $60 for 5L, but I can use 3.5L for a small engine so for $120 I'll have 2 cars done - not bad

[Taka]

Where do you get Mobil 0W40 for $60/5L. It is $90 at Autobarn and Supercheap Auto.

Is there 5W40 for Mobil. I could only find 5W50 from Autobarn's self. 5W50 is ok?? too thick?

[Colonel]

Is there 5W40 for Mobil. I could only find 5W50 from Autobarn's self. 5W50 is ok?? too thick?

I'm not an oil expert but form what I've read, unless you live in a really cold place 5W30/40 should be great.

[kwach10]

i have seen 0-40 Mobil for $60 at SCA - probably on special

Mobil 1 is about $90 normally

[CroToy]

i have seen 0-40 Mobil for $60 at SCA - probably on special

Mobil 1 is about $90 normally

$60 for M1 0-40 is excellent price.

Edited February 19, 2009 by CroToy

[CroToy]

Some more top oils:

Repsol Competition 5 - 40 (my choice)

ELF Excellium 5 - 40

[kwach10]

OK, I checked again in my local SCA, and Mobil 0-40 is in fact $93, way more when I looked last time and considered Castrol 0-40 to be expensive at $70 (I guess not anymore).

They either had it in a wrong spot on a shelve or...

Nulon 10-40 or 5-40, are the cheapest synthetics, and can be bough in 6 L pack.

Fuchs is gone....

Shell 5-40 is about $60/5L but try Big W for a far better price.

Mobil 1 (5-50) is $70, but it may be a good choice for central Oz, where temp stays 40+ for long time, and in winter in can get below 0 in the mornings.

[Taka]

i have seen 0-40 Mobil for $60 at SCA - probably on special

Mobil 1 is about $90 normally

$60 for M1 0-40 is excellent price.

It is more than excellent I think that is 30% off!

Castrol is good value

[Colonel]

How do you get your favorite oil in the engine?

Do you just tell the service men what oil you want or do you go buy it and give it to them or do you just do the service yourself?

[kwach10]

I always buy my oil (and filters, if not serviced at dealer - which is most of the time) and make sure that I get the rest back. For kluger it is problem if you buy 6 L since that is how much it will take. But you can get two 5 L containers and then a single one for the next 4 changes.

Toyota charges $10/L for their (probably Castrol or other branded oil) stock mineral 10-30 oil, for which you can get a good synthetic - so why would you pay that ???

At Big W, Mobil 1 5-50 is $60 which is well below the price all auto shops charge. Shell 5-40 is even cheaper.

[Taka]

5W50 is much cheaper than teh Mobil 1 5W30 and 0W40. It is about the same price $60 for 5W50 anywhere else too...

[Kesawi]

I'm getting my vehicle serviced next week and intend to supply my own oil. Are there any issues with supplying something outside of what Toyota recommend in the manual, ie either a 5W-30 or 10-40?

I don't really know enough about oils to understand what the real difference is between a 0-40 (which is what seems to be recommended) and a 10-40.

[Colonel]

I'm getting my vehicle serviced next week and intend to supply my own oil. Are there any issues with supplying something outside of what Toyota recommend in the manual, ie either a 5W-30 or 10-40?

I don't really know enough about oils to understand what the real difference is between a 0-40 (which is what seems to be recommended) and a 10-40.

10W-40 should be fine, unless you live in Siberia. The two numbers are viscosity (seconds taken for a litre of oil to flow through a hole) at low Winter temperature (0 C??) and at running temperature. You want low viscosity at start up so the oil gets around the engine quick but you want it to be a bit more viscus at running temperature (30 to 50). So generally the oil is less viscus at lower temperatures, and needs to be so the lower temperature the engine is when it starts.

[Hiro]

I'm getting my vehicle serviced next week and intend to supply my own oil. Are there any issues with supplying something outside of what Toyota recommend in the manual, ie either a 5W-30 or 10-40?

I don't really know enough about oils to understand what the real difference is between a 0-40 (which is what seems to be recommended) and a 10-40.

10W-40 should be fine, unless you live in Siberia. The two numbers are viscosity (seconds taken for a litre of oil to flow through a hole) at low Winter temperature (0 C??) and at running temperature. You want low viscosity at start up so the oil gets around the engine quick but you want it to be a bit more viscus at running temperature (30 to 50). So generally the oil is less viscus at lower temperatures, and needs to be so the lower temperature the engine is when it starts.

Ahh, you've got it the wrong way around. The numbers are created by timing oil-flow through an orifice, yes, but oil is less viscous at higher temperatures than at low temperatures. What those numbers say is this:

20W40:

The oil has the viscosity of straight 20-weight oil at the "winter" temperature, and the viscosity of a straight 40-weight oil at operating temperature. The oil is still less viscous at higher temperatures than at low ones, but it hasn't thinned out as much as a straight-weight.

This graph will show what I mean (ignore the numbers, I made them up for the sake of creating the graph, but the trend is right)

Edited April 9, 2009 by Hiro Protagonist

[Colonel]

Ahh, you've got it the wrong way around. The numbers are created by timing oil-flow through an orifice, yes, but oil is less viscous at higher temperatures than at low temperatures. What those numbers say is this:

20W40:

The oil has the viscosity of straight 20-weight oil at the "winter" temperature, and the viscosity of a straight 40-weight oil at operating temperature. The oil is still less viscous at higher temperatures than at low ones, but it hasn't thinned out as much as a straight-weight.

Still not sure I understand. I thought the numbers were the seconds it takes for a litre of oil to flow through a certian size hole. Logically I thought oil should be less viscus at higher temperature so the numbers didn't really make sense to me. Lower numbers mean less viscous (thinner) right.

[Hiro]

Ahh, you've got it the wrong way around. The numbers are created by timing oil-flow through an orifice, yes, but oil is less viscous at higher temperatures than at low temperatures. What those numbers say is this:

20W40:

The oil has the viscosity of straight 20-weight oil at the "winter" temperature, and the viscosity of a straight 40-weight oil at operating temperature. The oil is still less viscous at higher temperatures than at low ones, but it hasn't thinned out as much as a straight-weight.

Still not sure I understand. I thought the numbers were the seconds it takes for a litre of oil to flow through a certian size hole. Logically I thought oil should be less viscus at higher temperature so the numbers didn't really make sense to me. Lower numbers mean less viscous (thinner) right.

For a straight-weight, yes. Oils are classified by their ability to flow through the orifice (measured in centistokes, or Saboltseconds), but the rating for a multigrade aren't direct times, rather equivalence to straight weights at particular temperatures.

In a multigrade oil, the first number refers to the equivalent viscosity at the winter temperature (which is -18C). For a 20W40, it means that the oil at the winter temperature has the same viscosity as a straight 20-weight oil at the winter temperature.

The second number refers to the equivalent viscosity at the higher temperature (which is 100C). So for a 20W40, it means that the oil is as viscous as a straight 40-weight oil at the operating temperature.

All oils are thicker (ie more viscous) when cold than they are when hot - think of them like honey.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Hiro Protagonist

[Kesawi]

I called the Mobil Lube Line (1800 033 863) and they were very helpful in providing useful information for selecting an oil.

Their recommendation was to use their Mobill 1 5W-30 for winter and Mobil 1 0W-40 for summer if I was really keen. As warmer weather is experienced in SE Queensland all year round, their recommendation was to just use Mobil 1 0W-40. If I was going to be regularly towing or placing the engine under high loads then a Mobil 1 5W-50 was recommended.

One suggestion they did make was to consider a Mobil Super 2000 X2 10W-40 semi-synthetic oil as it is considerably cheaper than Mobil 1. Their opinion was I would most likely have no discernible difference over the life of the car in engine wear, provided I changed it at the intervals recommended by Toyota.

One additional recommendation was to ensure the engine is run on the road for at least one hour continuously every week if the vehicle sits around alot or is only used for short trips to prevent buildup of water and other contaminents in the oil.

Overall they were very helpful, although they did tend to get overly technical at times. The other oil manufacturers have technical help lines and I'm sure they'd be just as useful.

[kwach10]

synthetic 5-40 is a perfect compromise for all year driving, unless central OZ (5-50).

One good synthetic oil change costs less than a full petrol tank!

[Kesawi]

synthetic 5-40 is a perfect compromise for all year driving, unless central OZ (5-50).

One good synthetic oil change costs less than a full petrol tank!

Fortunately I don't have to pay for the fuel but I do need to pay for the oil. $100+ for the oil seems quite expensive when probably $50 is included in the service advantage fee anyway.

I'm not quite convinced whether going synthetic will give significant advantage over the semi-synthetic. I plan to sell the car after 3-5 years before it reaches the 100,000km mark and I no longer get the depreciation benefits on tax. The stock oil should keep it running well until then I would think.

Edited April 16, 2009 by Kesawi

[kwach10]

yes, 6 L of stock oil is included in that price ($150) up to 60K service.

@$10/L you can get a credit for your own synthetic but why bother if you don't care ;)

my car has no service "program" (as additional cost ($800?) not available for government fleet cars) so I will buy my own and service at a trusted place of my choice

[Kesawi]

yes, 6 L of stock oil is included in that price ($150) up to 60K service.

@$10/L you can get a credit for your own synthetic but why bother if you don't care ;)

If I can get a credit for the stock oil then it would be worthwhile. If the stock oil will get the engine past the kilometres I need to get out of the car and fetch a good resale then it has done it's job.