Hand brake question

[oz_viking]

For ages I've been meaning to ask -

If you are on a slope and pull on the hand brake, then release the foot brake, does your car roll slightly? It's only a cm or two, but I've never experienced hand braking like this in any other car. My dealer checked and adjusted the brakes at 1000km, but the hand brake has always behaved this way.

I'm interested in any input..

[50 lemons]

For ages I've been meaning to ask -

If you are on a slope and pull on the hand brake, then release the foot brake, does your car roll slightly?  It's only a cm or two, but I've never experienced hand braking like this in any other car.  My dealer checked and adjusted the brakes at 1000km, but the hand brake has always behaved this way.

I'm interested in any input..

←

yes. mine does the same. Its a manual 04 ascent sports hatch.

[Blade Hunter]

For ages I've been meaning to ask -

If you are on a slope and pull on the hand brake, then release the foot brake, does your car roll slightly?  It's only a cm or two, but I've never experienced hand braking like this in any other car.  My dealer checked and adjusted the brakes at 1000km, but the hand brake has always behaved this way.

I'm interested in any input..

←

yes. mine does the same. Its a manual 04 ascent sports hatch.

←

All cars I have driven (Except my mini) have done this. As you brake, you lift the back wheels up which is held by the brakes on the fron being active and the hand brake holding the back tight. When you release the front brake, the wheels are able to roll slightly forward and allow the back to settle. It feels almost as if the car gives out a big sigh and settles down to snooze ;).

[CAP]

Yeah, and you feel the rear of the car drop down a little and then raise again when you release the Hand Brake.

Edited April 11, 2005 by IZZ-FE

[oz_viking]

Thanks, that eases my mind a little, but I'd still like to know why anyone would design a system to do this?

Honestly, none of my previous cars have done this (including KE20 Corolla, N13 Pulsar, my wife's Hyundai Elantra through to XD Falcon, VC Commodore, TD Starion Turbo, TT Mk IV Supra and Porsche 930). It seems unsafe, but is probably just some kind of ****ty, cost-saving design.

At least it's 'normal'.

[Blade Hunter]

Thanks, that eases my mind a little, but I'd still like to know why anyone would design a system to do this?

Honestly, none of my previous cars have done this (including KE20 Corolla, N13 Pulsar, my wife's Hyundai Elantra through to XD Falcon, VC Commodore, TD Starion Turbo, TT Mk IV Supra and Porsche 930).  It seems unsafe, but is probably just some kind of ****ty, cost-saving design.

At least it's 'normal'.

←

It wasn't "designed to do this" its simply how it is, see my prior post for an explanation why. Its not an actual "Device" its simply how the physics work, braking in a light front wheel drive (no weight in the back) will raise the body off the shocks as the weight transfers to the front, , as you have your brakes on you have all four wheels effectively locked, which means there is no play to allow the chassis to settle on its shocks (it would need to move the wheels slightly)

If you wish to not experience this put stiffer springs in your car, then the movement registered will be lower. Commodores and Falcons are heavier, the chance of you raising the rear end from braking is reduced (they also have heavy diffs in the back which also would add to the weight at the back).

The KE20 and the Starion would most likely have been drum brakes on the back which would not effectively lock the wheels so tight that there was no allowance in them (which means it would have settled without you taking your foot off the brakes). The N13 I think was also drum on the back. The only one I can't understand is the Elantre (everything else is either Drum or too heavy) I would have thought that would do it.

Cheers

Blade

Edited April 11, 2005 by Blade Hunter

[mtbrider]

For the last 3 weeks I've had a car park in the city where it's a steep ramp from underground to the road. Due to peak times its busy getting out there is a bank of cars going up the ramp and everyone seems to use their handbrake on the hill as the car behind tends to be right up the ar$e of the next car.

All cars I have followed up the ramp do move as you described it appears that when the weight of the car shifts from 4 wheels to two the car bucks a bit . It seems as if its only the springs moving and not the actual car rolling back.

I have to do it every time as it seems that the Sportivo clutch likes to burn and smell a bit if you try to slip it too much in this situation.

[Buddha]

Yeah, and you feel the rear of the car drop down a little and then raise again when you release the Hand Brake.

←

For an extreme feel of that, try a 91-93 Festiva, or the equivalent Mazda 121.

On a slight downward slope, by holding the button in and just pulling the handbrake lever up and down, you can make the car "hump" the road! :P

And in case you're wondering, no, they're not good for anything else!

[Azza]

I find with my 04 Sportivo that when I pull into my garage (or any flat surface) I can bring the car to a stop, leave my foot on the foot-brake, apply the hand brake then feel the rear of the car lift when I take my foot off the foot-brake....

This is the only car I have ever felt this 'sensation' in. My 2000 Corolla Levin did NOT do this.

I guess, look on the bright side, my car goes into Lift even when stationary... :P

[osterlundmiguel]

being a mechanic, several cars i have worked on has this mechanism. its all to do with the suspensioon of the vehicle.

[oz_viking]

It wasn't "designed to do this" its simply how it is, see my prior post for an explanation why. Its not an actual "Device" its simply how the physics work, braking in a light front wheel drive (no weight in the back) will raise the body off the shocks as the weight transfers to the front, , as you have your brakes on you have all four wheels effectively locked, which means there is no play to allow the chassis to settle on its shocks (it would need to move the wheels slightly)

If you wish to not experience this put stiffer springs in your car, then the movement registered will be lower. Commodores and Falcons are heavier, the chance of you raising the rear end from braking is reduced (they also have heavy diffs in the back which also would add to the weight at the back).

The KE20 and the Starion would most likely have been drum brakes on the back which would not effectively lock the wheels so tight that there was no allowance in them (which means it would have settled without you taking your foot off the brakes). The N13 I think was also drum on the back. The only one I can't understand is the Elantre (everything else is either Drum or too heavy) I would have thought that would do it.

Cheers

Blade

←

Something just doesn't seem right about this. Assuming the hand brake cable and foot brake hydraulics activate the same braking mechanism, then the car should NOT move when releasing the foot brake (with the hand brake on). I can only assume that the hand and foot brakes act through separate mechanisms to apply clamping pressure on the disc.

Also, it happens both on an upward or downward slope.

And, I have stiffer suspension (Eibach springs) and it made no difference whatsoever.

And, the Pulsar had 4 wheel discs and weighed almost exactly the same as the Sportivo.

[Blade Hunter]

Something just doesn't seem right about this.  Assuming the hand brake cable and foot brake hydraulics activate the same braking mechanism, then the car should NOT move when releasing the foot brake (with the hand brake on).  I can only assume that the hand and foot brakes act through separate mechanisms to apply clamping pressure on the disc. 

Also, it happens both on an upward or downward slope.

And, I have stiffer suspension (Eibach springs) and it made no difference whatsoever.

And, the Pulsar had 4 wheel discs and weighed almost exactly the same as the Sportivo.

←

Your footbrake clamps all 4 wheels, the handbrake only clamps the back, when you switch from the all 4 clamp to the rear only clamp of brakes (ie remove foot brake but have handbrake on) the car is allowed to settle, the front wheels can roll forward slightly and allow the back shocks to release the built up pressure. You can experience the same effect on the car by having your handbrake on and put the car in reverse and allow the clutch up slightly, this will force the front wheels to push the car against the locked back wheels and will cause the chassis to raise slightly on the suspension, if you are quick and slam your brakes on it will hold the tension until you release the footbrake where the front wheels can then roll forward and allow it to once again settle.

Blade

[CAP]

You can also do the reverse, hold the handbrake, select 1st gear, start pulling the clutch out and the rear end will dip.

[Blade Hunter]

You can also do the reverse, hold the handbrake, select 1st gear, start pulling the clutch out and the rear end will dip.

←

Yup, the suspension has more play in it than the rubber against the road :).

[shaohaok]

It wasn't "designed to do this" its simply how it is, see my prior post for an explanation why. Its not an actual "Device" its simply how the physics work, braking in a light front wheel drive (no weight in the back) will raise the body off the shocks as the weight transfers to the front, , as you have your brakes on you have all four wheels effectively locked, which means there is no play to allow the chassis to settle on its shocks (it would need to move the wheels slightly)

If you wish to not experience this put stiffer springs in your car, then the movement registered will be lower. Commodores and Falcons are heavier, the chance of you raising the rear end from braking is reduced (they also have heavy diffs in the back which also would add to the weight at the back).

The KE20 and the Starion would most likely have been drum brakes on the back which would not effectively lock the wheels so tight that there was no allowance in them (which means it would have settled without you taking your foot off the brakes). The N13 I think was also drum on the back. The only one I can't understand is the Elantre (everything else is either Drum or too heavy) I would have thought that would do it.

Cheers

Blade

←

Something just doesn't seem right about this. Assuming the hand brake cable and foot brake hydraulics activate the same braking mechanism, then the car should NOT move when releasing the foot brake (with the hand brake on). I can only assume that the hand and foot brakes act through separate mechanisms to apply clamping pressure on the disc.

Also, it happens both on an upward or downward slope.

And, I have stiffer suspension (Eibach springs) and it made no difference whatsoever.

And, the Pulsar had 4 wheel discs and weighed almost exactly the same as the Sportivo.

←

handbrake cable doesn't activate the rear caliper. hand brakes in our cars use a rear hub. nothing to do with the rotors.

[Blade Hunter]

It wasn't "designed to do this" its simply how it is, see my prior post for an explanation why. Its not an actual "Device" its simply how the physics work, braking in a light front wheel drive (no weight in the back) will raise the body off the shocks as the weight transfers to the front, , as you have your brakes on you have all four wheels effectively locked, which means there is no play to allow the chassis to settle on its shocks (it would need to move the wheels slightly)

If you wish to not experience this put stiffer springs in your car, then the movement registered will be lower. Commodores and Falcons are heavier, the chance of you raising the rear end from braking is reduced (they also have heavy diffs in the back which also would add to the weight at the back).

The KE20 and the Starion would most likely have been drum brakes on the back which would not effectively lock the wheels so tight that there was no allowance in them (which means it would have settled without you taking your foot off the brakes). The N13 I think was also drum on the back. The only one I can't understand is the Elantre (everything else is either Drum or too heavy) I would have thought that would do it.

Cheers

Blade

←

Something just doesn't seem right about this. Assuming the hand brake cable and foot brake hydraulics activate the same braking mechanism, then the car should NOT move when releasing the foot brake (with the hand brake on). I can only assume that the hand and foot brakes act through separate mechanisms to apply clamping pressure on the disc.

Also, it happens both on an upward or downward slope.

And, I have stiffer suspension (Eibach springs) and it made no difference whatsoever.

And, the Pulsar had 4 wheel discs and weighed almost exactly the same as the Sportivo.

←

handbrake cable doesn't activate the rear caliper. hand brakes in our cars use a rear hub. nothing to do with the rotors.

←

Really?? I would have thought like most c**** it just clamped the calipers shut.

[Twincam.GTi]

Ah so, the modern Sporty Corollas with rear disc brakes use a little drum hub within like Volvo and some Vauxhall (GM Holden). Good idea because older Corollas like the 80's GT's and GTi's that had rear disc brakes had a mechanism that 'clamps' the caliper and it does give problems sometimes in our damp climate. :(

[teddy1386]

For ages I've been meaning to ask -

If you are on a slope and pull on the hand brake, then release the foot brake, does your car roll slightly?  It's only a cm or two, but I've never experienced hand braking like this in any other car.  My dealer checked and adjusted the brakes at 1000km, but the hand brake has always behaved this way.

I'm interested in any input..

←

does ur suspension creak or something like that ?

i have a manual acent hatch also but on slopes it would creak.

on an auto it doesnt do it.

[Nino_Leb]

be happy the handbrake works, when driving my mates civic thee handbrake was pretty pointless. it would still role back on a slope and u could pull it up while dirivng and woudent do anything :S

[teddy1386]

For ages I've been meaning to ask -

If you are on a slope and pull on the hand brake, then release the foot brake, does your car roll slightly?  It's only a cm or two, but I've never experienced hand braking like this in any other car.  My dealer checked and adjusted the brakes at 1000km, but the hand brake has always behaved this way.

I'm interested in any input..

←

does ur suspension creak or something like that ?

i have a manual acent hatch also but on slopes it would creak.

on an auto it doesnt do it.

←

but its a ***** it makes the creaking noise cos i bought the car brand new and that i brought it into toyota service centre n they could not fix it and they dont know why it does it

[qkslvr]

Hi Guys. I haven't posted on here in a while. been busy at my new job.

anyways. The handbrake uses a different mechanism to your foot brakes (which uses the discs). the hand brakes uses a small drum brake type assembly inside the rear wheel hub.

in all cars, there will be a shift of weight from either the front to the back or back to the front depending on which way the car is facing down the hill. in most cars with double wishbone or strut type suspension, you will not see much movement. But because our cars have the torsion beam the pivot point for the trailing arms is further away from the hubs than most cars and with only small angular movements in the trailing arms, we will see significant up or down movements in the rear suspension.

Another reason is because of the way the drum brakes are designed, they do not fully engage until the drum rotates a little against the brake shoes and causes them to "wedge" themselves tighter against the drum.

anyway. sorry for the lenghty post. I just thought i'd clarify a few things.

[JBop]

does ur suspension creak or something like that ?

i have a manual acent hatch also but on slopes it would creak.

on an auto it doesnt do it.

←

OMG my ascent does that too and it annoys the crap out of me. ive told the dealership numerous times about the suspension (i think its the rear) and they said theres nothing wrong with it.

i was starting to think it was just me hearing things...

[Rolla Boy]

Perfectly normal operation... Nothing to be worried about...