I need your feedback, dewds!

[the_random_hero]

Hey guys, I've been thinking about this for some time now. Myself and two mates are talking about setting up our own Toyota-specific performance shop in a couple of years - fabrication, tuning, engine building, maintainence, etc and looking for a bit of feedback. I'm skilled in fabricator/electronics, one of my friends is a qualified engine reconditioner and the other is an accountant/importer - all things which would be very useful to this sort of business. To begin with, we're looking at knocking up bolt-on bits - manifolds, exhausts, braces, etc. Now, some questions:

1. Would you guys be willing to pay a little bit extra to have work done at a business where they specialise in Toyota-only engines?

2. What sort of bolt-on products are people looking for that can be fabricated?

3. Is there currently a place that does something similar? I know places well known for single engines (ie. Mercury Motorsport for 2JZ-GTE's, Road and Track for 4A-GE's, Bullet for 1UZ-FE's, etc), but none that specialise in the whole aspect of Toyota performance.

Of course, any other feedback is more than welcome :)

Edited June 16, 2009 by the_random_hero

[chicaboo]

We need IRS for the ZZE123. :P

You will have to be flexible to keep afloat, and that will mean working on other makes of cars, maybe even Nissans! :o

So long as you are enthusiastic about the business, it will be reflected in the quality of your work, and you will succeed.

Let me know when you need a CAD or BIM guru, I hate my job!

Gav.

[mrcrazyrolla]

1. Would you guys be willing to pay a little bit extra to have work done at a business where they specialise in Toyota-only engines?

Depends how much extra I guess...most like myself make enough money to be able to afford the peace of mind that their care is in good hands. So...YES!

2. What sort of bolt-on products are people looking for that can be fabricated?

I'd love a place where you could go for the little things. Remove my badges and door strips? Supply and paint my trd grill? Blue console mod? The list goes on man

3. Is there currently a place that does something similar? I know places well known for single engines (ie. Mercury Motorsport for 2JZ-GTE's, Road and Track for 4A-GE's, Bullet for 1UZ-FE's, etc), but none that specialise in the whole aspect of Toyota performance.

Of course, any other feedback is more than welcome :)

1 - Depends how much extra I guess...most like myself make enough money to be able to afford the peace of mind that their care is in good hands. So...YES!

2 - I'd love a place where you could go for the little things. Remove my badges and door strips? Supply and paint my trd grill? Blue console mod? Supply the best (you know what is best - this if a massive improvment from most installers) Shocks and Springs. The list goes on man

3 - Dunno tbh

In conclusion if you made a place with a warm environment where I could go for information and work, by people who know my rolla and know what would improve it then you'd have my business every time.

Edited June 16, 2009 by mrcrazyrolla

[¥uri]

1. not sure about paying more, like maintenance from Toyota dealerships, maybe price it so that its abit cheaper than dealer services but more than the local garages, general mechanics etc.. depends what jobs are carried out aswell, ie custom work and the like

2.

i) ideas on what to fabricate; things like bodywork, engine bay bits and pieces like heat-shields & covers plus the never ending SRI vs CAI dilemma

ii) with this option, i guess you can make a name for yourself similar to that of sponsors in this forum. be in direct competition or complement each others work..

3. don't know of any, but would most definitely take my Corolla there if such a place existed coz that's a great business concept, i reckon... considering the amount of them from that generation on the roads

good luck with it all and keep us, especially me updated

my $0.02

[mrcrazyrolla]

my .02c

Fifth of a cent?

[¥uri]

LoL sorry you know what i meant

post edited

[Evo7]

Sounds like a brilliant idea, i will be first inline to get me a custom Exhaust Manifold done, new headers please! :D

You wanna put my project together for me too ;) jks lol

Evo

[spillige]

in theory you have a good idea, in practice not so much, are you saying your business would be 2zz/1zz specific? or general toyota?

if you were to specialize in zze's i think you would find it very tuff to make a living out of it, if you crunch the numbers you'll see that you'd barely scrape by, and thats if you had already carved a name out in the industrie.

ask your self how much money youd make from installing cai's or porting headers, and its not even the labour cost issue which is where youd be making your money its ''demand factor'' if your thinking about the more serious side of zee tuning your in a even bigger hole, i can count the number of highly tuned zze's that i know on 1 hand.........

i know this sounds awfully negative, but its reality

[Speedz]

i would have thought your accountant friend already crunch the numbers with the conclusion that you are targeting a niche market that makes your business not viable in the short term where its critical (in the 1st 24 months...) to get the cashflow running to pay for all the basic cost of the business before u make a cent of profit...

1 - you cant be brand specific, at least not straight away so you have to take in all manufacturers at least on general maintenance to keep your head above water and built up your customer base beyond this forum...

2 - even though there are people are willing to splash the cash, they are far and in between... (if they want fart cannons they go to a fart cannon specialist, springs they DIY, rotors etc too...)

3 - they probably sourced most of their aftermarket parts o/s or interstate where its cheaper thus you losing another source of revenue and only doing the installation work...

4 - how are you gonna mark up the price when your customer probably know the rough cost price of the imported hardware...?

5 - your workshop is gonna cost heaps to begin to you need a very good business plan to get the banks to lend you money...

6 - do you have any plans when things do go wrong such as installation didnt go as planned etc...?

its 4am so i might be typing jibberish there... :P

oh i know a guy... (ex highschool mate) who opened or co-own PSI performance imports, if you know who they are you probably should check them out and see if they are doing well... (last time i read the business is up for sale...)

[the_random_hero]

in theory you have a good idea, in practice not so much, are you saying your business would be 2zz/1zz specific? or general toyota?

if you were to specialize in zze's i think you would find it very tuff to make a living out of it, if you crunch the numbers you'll see that you'd barely scrape by, and thats if you had already carved a name out in the industrie.

ask your self how much money youd make from installing cai's or porting headers, and its not even the labour cost issue which is where youd be making your money its ''demand factor'' if your thinking about the more serious side of zee tuning your in a even bigger hole, i can count the number of highly tuned zze's that i know on 1 hand.........

i know this sounds awfully negative, but its reality

Definitely not just ZZE12x's I'm talking every single model of Toyota/Lexus made, from the super old school through to some of the newer models, covering things like brake upgrades, engine upgrades, importing parts by request, fitting bolt ons, building performance engines, exhaust/manifold fabrication, etc. I would also want an online part of the business that just sells bolt ons/imported parts as it would be a more constant cash flow than retail work.

To start with, we're talking about starting off small - will probably do most of the work from a home garage, just starting with stuff like making turbo manifolds (have a few jigs for some already), getting kits together for big brake kits (already have a few in mind that I just need to test fit), etc. All three of us own Toyota's (AW11, two Hachi's, Paseo, Supra, etc) and have fairly close friends who have the more common 'performance' Toyota's - Sportivo's, Aurions, Starlet GT's, couple of old Celica's, etc so there is no shortage of cars available for test-fitting bits - plus we've also got this forum to grab testers off :P

Keep the suggestions coming guys, they are very appreciated.

[Speedz]

i like the testing bits... :D

but i think mainly you are looking at the cost side of the things (cashflow, machineries etc...) ofcoz you can probably juggle your current FT job and do the startup business during weekends at 1st then work from there...

[lateralus]

personally, even though targeting toyota owners is a large market, the number of toyota owners who are actually prepared to get 'oh what a greater feeling' is pretty damn small. as others have said, it's not very sustainable in the long term.

[Guni]

3s-gte sounds like a good idea.

[SuperDave]

• Don't leave out overhead costs, they can stack up especially if there is little work coming through.
  
• Keep a good reputation, don't promise the world if you can't deliver it. Same applies for getting parts in or getting jobs done by a certain date, they almost always blow out. Just keep it realistic.
  
• If you know any dealerships try and tee yourself up as a prefered workshop for them to out source to. That might keep a more consistant stream of work coming through.
  
• Starting out you'd be better off doing anything that comes your way. Beggers can't be choosers.
  

I'm no workshop expert but you will need to build your reputation to start getting people to chose your workshop over someone else.

[Jaaassseeee]

Building a business is hard. Buying out an existing business with a reasonable reputation would be much easier, especially at this time and day (If you have the money). Everything is set up and in place, all you need is minor twitching of certain areas to make it work the way you want it.

Otherwise;

First of all you will need to target a wider range of market as you don't want to put all your eggs into one basket.

Secondly, you will need to build relationships with other car yards or dealerships (as Dave said) in order to have a constant flow of business.

Thirdly, measure your possible fixed & variable costs involved. I don't know about running a workshop, but running an office alone is hectic enough to realise I won't be running my own business for a while.

Others things are minis cure compared to the three points mentioned above. At the end of the day, a business is about having turnover & cashflow running through it, coming out with a good profit. The good thing is, you're starting during a time when the world is in a recession and much easier to source parts/employees at a lower price. Just remember you'll probably have a stick it out and break even for a while before the economy takes off again and you start building a huge inflow of work, hence mulla in hand.

Get your accounting mate to do some serious number crunching, and if you do decide to go ahead, utilize the internet. Once you get it going, the internet advertising side is virtually free (maybe a few fixed costs @ a couple of hundred dollars per annum) and limitless to what you can do.

Good luck!

[bozurolla]

The ideas & theories are great,I & a couple o mates was thinking of the same thing here in Perth,With my knowlegde & experience in Spare parts & workshops,I was the first to put my hands up to manage the place.

Its still on the drawing board but this is where we're up to

-We decided to buy an existing business which had a reputable & reoccuring customer base or bread n butter (this means the business would still roll no matter if the special jobs came or not) if you want to specialise in Toyotas,i recommend going in deeper & asking for whats on demand in the forums or particualr groups ,I had in mind Throttle body upgrades,CAI & SRI combos,body kitting etc ,ECU Upgrades,maybe the Odd seat,exhaust accessories would be a great start.

-Make sure who evers gonna works on these are certified,professional,willing to take criticism, & put the time in.Ive known many technicians that are so set in their ways that their ways or no ones ways particular case i was involved in was with an Aftermarket ECU upgrade,many techs have a formulae they use but i learnt different cars with different mod combinations requires complete attention to get maximum potentiallty of the car,I have many candidates in mind for ours & im carefully minimsing the list

-Overheads,Workshop/consumable costs,employee costs nut it out & make sure u try to cover as much as u can (this is where i personally am at coz this is where i think as a business gets stuck,presently talking to the accountant)

-Build relationships with other businesses,the market is savage & the more business in your circle the better the support(brake,clutch,fuel injection,tyres,car detailers,panelbeaters etc)

-Myself being a welder by trade I manufactured headers & also engine recon on the side,ive done this for two years to date with a partner & my return work has been minimal & prices have been competetive,headers from this i can incorporate in my next business

This is some of the things we're still nuttin out but we hope to have a proposal & statement within three months.. keep u informed..or get in touch we'll talk!

[Oldsaltoz]

What sort of bolt-on products are people looking for that can be fabricated?

Bull bar, cargo barrier, roof rack, shelving for van stowage.

[SILVABULLIT]

The first thing you really need is qualified staff. Qualified mechanic with reasonable experience not an engine reconditioner as well as qualified fitter/turner for fabrication these days is a must. Not picking on your ability but have seen soo many businesses with good intentions fail simply cause people these days want a guarantee that what you do to their car is done by someone qualified and is done by someone with considerable experience.

I hear the whinges from people all the time about the prices some businesses charge for their products/services. Those businesses in particular have the staff with qualifications and vast experience as well as have built up a quality reputation for their products/services. You cannot put a price on someone's experience in a trade and all the knowledge you gather along the way. You don't give that sort of info away for free!!!!

This doesn't happen overnight so you cannot say that you will charge more for you services in the beginning because you have worked on toyota's and own them. You have to start off with competitive prices and be realistic and take whatever work comes past your door.

I've run my own business in the past and built something from absolutely nothing in a short space of time. Once I had a good reputation(took me about 12 months) I started to get the continual return business from clients who in turn got me business through referrals of the good work I did for them. I cut no corners and basically took on everything I could for the first 1.5 to 2 odd years. By the time I had been going for 4 years I scaled back my advertising as I no longer needed it. Then I could begin to pick and choose what work i wanted to do. My prices were adjusted accordingly and I set myself to work on doing work for a niche of the market place but still kept my mainstream clients. they were the bread and butter and the niche clients are the cream plain and simple. this is where you can begin to make money and improved profits cause you offer something nobody else can. I did all this with only employing the odd casual every now and then so I didn't have the hassle of multiple staff and all the associated costs.

Prolly the biggest thing you need to have is a realistic business model and timeframe to do it in. Look at all angles of running a business. I thought it would be fairly easy but I had to learn a hell of a lot as well as there was a lot of things I never even thought about. Also don't forget running your own business doesn't end when your trading hours do. Lots of late nights doing paperwork and business admin certainly changed my mind of running my own business as the freedom to do whatever you want when you can isn't all it is cracked up to be....

[the_random_hero]

This might be starting quicker than I expected guys! Stay tuned :D

[Speedz]

Will be looking forward to it... ^_^

[the_random_hero]

Not too neat, but it's for my car and I cut everything by hand :P Might have an order for 10 coming from a mate, if so everything will be laser cut and a lot neater.