Bad fuel for AURION

[vekzla]

Hey guys,

I drive 07 ATX Aurion and it has massive starting issues, the car has been in and out of the mechanics 6 times now trying to fix this starting issue. It has passed all their tests according to them

When it went to them the first time I got told that it was the fuel pressure regulator (did not get replaced), then fuel pump (did not get replaced) and the last one was the VVTI sprocket (replaced). They could not pin point the fault to 100% so Toyota car care could cover the fault, but I still have issues with starting the car when it's cold.

Now I got a call from the mechanics saying that I am using a bad fuel mixture, could be from the petrol station; I fill up anywhere that says Woolworths Caltex 95octane (discounts) if thats the case then all caltex stations have bad fuel, as i fill anywhere with caltex logo

Has anyone had this issue before?

Cheers,

:(

Edited June 27, 2011 by vekzla

[Vijith555]

Hey guys,

I drive 07 ATX Aurion and it has massive starting issues, the car has been in and out of the mechanics 6 times now trying to fix this starting issue. It has passed all their tests according to them

When it went to them the first time I got told that it was the fuel pressure regulator (did not get replaced), then fuel pump (did not get replaced) and the last one was the VVTI sprocket (replaced). They could not pin point the fault to 100% so Toyota car care could cover the fault, but I still have issues with starting the car when it's cold.

Now I got a call from the mechanics saying that I am using a bad fuel mixture, could be from the petrol station; I fill up anywhere that says Woolworths Caltex 95octane (discounts) if thats the case then all caltex stations have bad fuel, as i fill anywhere with caltex logo

Has anyone had this issue before?

Cheers,

:(

First of all sorry to hear about you having to go to the mechanics repeatedly to get the problem fixed. I drive a 08' Aurion and 90% of the time i fill her up with 95 octane Caltex fuel. I dont think there is a problem with the fuel at all. I bet its those mechanics who cannot properly diagnose the problem and doing all guess work wasting your time and probably making it worse for the car. I suggest you get it properly checked by a Toyota dealer. But look around the forum if you could find this issue addressed in the FAQ section. Hopefully some of the members here would be able to give you more help regarding this issue. Have you got the battery fully tested as well? Battery terminals?

[vekzla]

First of all sorry to hear about you having to go to the mechanics repeatedly to get the problem fixed. I drive a 08' Aurion and 90% of the time i fill her up with 95 octane Caltex fuel. I dont think there is a problem with the fuel at all. I bet its those mechanics who cannot properly diagnose the problem and doing all guess work wasting your time and probably making it worse for the car. I suggest you get it properly checked by a Toyota dealer. But look around the forum if you could find this issue addressed in the FAQ section. Hopefully some of the members here would be able to give you more help regarding this issue. Have you got the battery fully tested as well? Battery terminals?

Thanks for your reply.

The car is being checked by Toyota dealers. It passed all the electrical tests, he said it might be the petrol station where i filled in the last time. But it has been doing this since I bought the car. It just got worse and worse.

They are going to fill her up with 98 octane and see how that works. I just don't understand how they cannot pin point the fault, the problem these days is they all depend on their computers to tell them where the fault is. The problem with that is sensors can pass their computer diagnoses tests marginally and register a pass but if that sensor is exposed to extreme conditions it could fail, their diagnoses tests don't allow for that.

[Steven]

what exactly is the problem, ie what are the symptoms.

[vekzla]

what exactly is the problem, ie what are the symptoms.

Car has issues starting when its cold, the car turns over 4-6 times then dies then it cranks over 1-2 times then it fires up.

[Vijith555]

First of all sorry to hear about you having to go to the mechanics repeatedly to get the problem fixed. I drive a 08' Aurion and 90% of the time i fill her up with 95 octane Caltex fuel. I dont think there is a problem with the fuel at all. I bet its those mechanics who cannot properly diagnose the problem and doing all guess work wasting your time and probably making it worse for the car. I suggest you get it properly checked by a Toyota dealer. But look around the forum if you could find this issue addressed in the FAQ section. Hopefully some of the members here would be able to give you more help regarding this issue. Have you got the battery fully tested as well? Battery terminals?

Thanks for your reply.

The car is being checked by Toyota dealers. It passed all the electrical tests, he said it might be the petrol station where i filled in the last time. But it has been doing this since I bought the car. It just got worse and worse.

They are going to fill her up with 98 octane and see how that works. I just don't understand how they cannot pin point the fault, the problem these days is they all depend on their computers to tell them where the fault is. The problem with that is sensors can pass their computer diagnoses tests marginally and register a pass but if that sensor is exposed to extreme conditions it could fail, their diagnoses tests don't allow for that.

So Toyota itself is having issues trying to diagnose the problem. I cant figure out what this could be. From the looks of it fuel delivery to the engine is whats going on my mind. Something bad must have got mixed for this to happen. But like you said they have run all their tests so its something out of the box.

[Steven]

Are there any other problems once you have the car started?

Reason is a few ideas I have below which won't necessary show an error code but could cause starting issues-

Fuel Pressure

A dying fuel pump might take a moment to properly prime the fuel lines to the correct pressure for the car to run. A means to test this is to sit the car on "ignition" for a few moments without trying to start it, as this will prime the lines. It might also cause the car to run lean under high RPM situations which can be dangerous for the car but I suspect the Aurion would detect this and throw a code (and cut the revs).

Faulty Spark Plug

Heavy carbon deposits, incorrect gap or even a cracked plug can cause a variety of issues with cold starting and never throw a code. Under most situations a faulty plug would reveal itself as a slight miss under load, however if the miss is only slight there is every possibility you could easily miss it (although in most cases I'd find it difficult for an experienced mechanic to miss it)

Blocked or partially blocked IAC valve

This valve is essentially what gives the engine air to start and idle when the throttle body is closed, and poor air flow here would make it hard for the engine to get the correct Air/fuel ratio to start. I must admit though with the electronic throttle on the Aurion I'm not 100% whether it even has such a valve, but once started it would mean the ECU could open the throttle slightly in order to keep the idle up. All speculation

Bad Fuel

A favorite of mechanics everywhere to blame the fuel when they can't figure a problem, bad fuel is in reality a very low likelyhood especially given you buy your fuel from a major retailer. Although bad fuel cases exist the controls and testing in place by major retailers to prevent being the liable party for an engine rebuilt or other mechanic repairs is fairly extensive, not to mention the fines they may incur from Government testing agencies should they fail for any reason. In most cases where bad fuel is the problem, the cause is actually crap in your fuel tank which mixes with the fuel regardless of where you fill up. This is more difficult to test, however precise emissions testing can sometimes detected traces of unknown substances being burnt by the engine and it can also result in your plugs fowling up quickly or finding an unknown residue on them. The quickest test though is to install a new fuel filter, as they're relatively cheap and if you do have crap in the tank this should give you a window of time in which such crap cannot get through to the engine and hence you'd find your problem solved.

Hope this helps.

[vekzla]

Are there any other problems once you have the car started?

Reason is a few ideas I have below which won't necessary show an error code but could cause starting issues-

Fuel Pressure

A dying fuel pump might take a moment to properly prime the fuel lines to the correct pressure for the car to run. A means to test this is to sit the car on "ignition" for a few moments without trying to start it, as this will prime the lines. It might also cause the car to run lean under high RPM situations which can be dangerous for the car but I suspect the Aurion would detect this and throw a code (and cut the revs).

Faulty Spark Plug

Heavy carbon deposits, incorrect gap or even a cracked plug can cause a variety of issues with cold starting and never throw a code. Under most situations a faulty plug would reveal itself as a slight miss under load, however if the miss is only slight there is every possibility you could easily miss it (although in most cases I'd find it difficult for an experienced mechanic to miss it)

Blocked or partially blocked IAC valve

This valve is essentially what gives the engine air to start and idle when the throttle body is closed, and poor air flow here would make it hard for the engine to get the correct Air/fuel ratio to start. I must admit though with the electronic throttle on the Aurion I'm not 100% whether it even has such a valve, but once started it would mean the ECU could open the throttle slightly in order to keep the idle up. All speculation

Bad Fuel

A favorite of mechanics everywhere to blame the fuel when they can't figure a problem, bad fuel is in reality a very low likelyhood especially given you buy your fuel from a major retailer. Although bad fuel cases exist the controls and testing in place by major retailers to prevent being the liable party for an engine rebuilt or other mechanic repairs is fairly extensive, not to mention the fines they may incur from Government testing agencies should they fail for any reason. In most cases where bad fuel is the problem, the cause is actually crap in your fuel tank which mixes with the fuel regardless of where you fill up. This is more difficult to test, however precise emissions testing can sometimes detected traces of unknown substances being burnt by the engine and it can also result in your plugs fowling up quickly or finding an unknown residue on them. The quickest test though is to install a new fuel filter, as they're relatively cheap and if you do have crap in the tank this should give you a window of time in which such crap cannot get through to the engine and hence you'd find your problem solved.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for your input great help, once the car starts no problems at all. It was very slow and lazy to drive but once they changed the VVTI Sprocket (sludge built up) it drives great. I will quiz the toyota mechanics today.but i dont think its the fuel at all and I had it serviced with them at 45000km and they checked the filters...

[vekzla]

First of all sorry to hear about you having to go to the mechanics repeatedly to get the problem fixed. I drive a 08' Aurion and 90% of the time i fill her up with 95 octane Caltex fuel. I dont think there is a problem with the fuel at all. I bet its those mechanics who cannot properly diagnose the problem and doing all guess work wasting your time and probably making it worse for the car. I suggest you get it properly checked by a Toyota dealer. But look around the forum if you could find this issue addressed in the FAQ section. Hopefully some of the members here would be able to give you more help regarding this issue. Have you got the battery fully tested as well? Battery terminals?

Thanks for your reply.

The car is being checked by Toyota dealers. It passed all the electrical tests, he said it might be the petrol station where i filled in the last time. But it has been doing this since I bought the car. It just got worse and worse.

They are going to fill her up with 98 octane and see how that works. I just don't understand how they cannot pin point the fault, the problem these days is they all depend on their computers to tell them where the fault is. The problem with that is sensors can pass their computer diagnoses tests marginally and register a pass but if that sensor is exposed to extreme conditions it could fail, their diagnoses tests don't allow for that.

So Toyota itself is having issues trying to diagnose the problem. I cant figure out what this could be. From the looks of it fuel delivery to the engine is whats going on my mind. Something bad must have got mixed for this to happen. But like you said they have run all their tests so its something out of the box.

Thanks for your reply, i have no idea what it is.. it could be a bad temp sensor that is failing and they are not picking it up or any of the faults given above..i will update you guys once i see them today.

[vekzla]

So fuel filter changed, fuel tank cleaned and 98 octane used. Car still not starting up correct and it's still at the Toyota mechanics. Told them about fuel Pump they said no, sparkplugs are fine. I don't think they will find the problem lol :(

[vekzla]

So fuel filter changed, fuel tank cleaned and 98 octane used. Car still not starting up correct and it's still at the Toyota mechanics. Told them about fuel Pump they said no, sparkplugs are fine. I don't think they will find the problem lol :(

$245 later they cleaned the fuel tank, replaced the fuel filter and toped it up with 98 octane fuel. Car started for them with no problems. Took it home and the next day it started playing up again. Called them and had it rebooked. I was told to stay away from 95 octane as it is bad for the car.

The car used to take awhile to start then dies for a bit then starts again, now it takes 6-8 cranks before it starts with no troubles in the middle of the cranking process.

I dont think they will find the problem. I will try and take a video of the car starting up and post it up for you guys to have a look at it.

[DJKOR]

I was told to stay away from 95 octane as it is bad for the car.

That's a load of rubbish right there. These cars are made to run on 91 RON unleaded with no issues.

The car used to take awhile to start then dies for a bit then starts again, now it takes 6-8 cranks before it starts with no troubles in the middle of the cranking process.

I dont think they will find the problem. I will try and take a video of the car starting up and post it up for you guys to have a look at it.

Here's something to try. With the engine off, turn the key to ON and apply just a small amount of throttle... like enough to move the pedal about a centimetre. Then try to crank the engine and see how it starts. Let us know if that helps it a bit.

[vekzla]

I was told to stay away from 95 octane as it is bad for the car.

That's a load of rubbish right there. These cars are made to run on 91 RON unleaded with no issues.

Thats what I told him, I filled it up with a full tank of 98 from BP so they cant say I am not following their instructions. Once this issue is fixed I will go back to 95.

The car used to take awhile to start then dies for a bit then starts again, now it takes 6-8 cranks before it starts with no troubles in the middle of the cranking process.

I dont think they will find the problem. I will try and take a video of the car starting up and post it up for you guys to have a look at it.

Here's something to try. With the engine off, turn the key to ON and apply just a small amount of throttle... like enough to move the pedal about a centimetre. Then try to crank the engine and see how it starts. Let us know if that helps it a bit.

I will try that and upload a video at the same time. I am pretty keen to take it to NRMA instead of Toyota Mechanics. I have lost count of how many times I have gone back to them.

[vekzla]

OK so here is a video of me starting it this morning lol at the wrong date. I have not tried pressing in the petrol pedal technique yet.

Need to turn up your volume bad recording.

IMG_0584.MOV

Edited July 5, 2011 by vekzla

[Silver-Aurion]

OK so here is a video of me starting it this morning lol at the wrong date. I have not tried pressing in the petrol pedal technique yet.

Need to turn up your volume bad recording.

Far out, that really is a longer start than usual. Wonder what if can be.

Oh yeah, nice watch too. Show off :P

[vekzla]

Here's something to try. With the engine off, turn the key to ON and apply just a small amount of throttle... like enough to move the pedal about a centimetre. Then try to crank the engine and see how it starts. Let us know if that helps it a bit.

Bad news!I tried this morning and it did not help at all, still took its time before it started.

[vekzla]

Far out, that really is a longer start than usual. Wonder what if can be.

Oh yeah, nice watch too. Show off :P

Yeh its taking its time to start, did it again this morning. Nice watch with the wrong date hahahaha..

[vekzla]

Far out, that really is a longer start than usual. Wonder what if can be.

Oh yeah, nice watch too. Show off :P

Yeh its taking its time to start, did it again this morning. Nice watch with the wrong date hahahaha..

Here is the reply I got today from the Toyota tech via email.

" I checked out the footage & it have run it by Toyota techs & they basically said that is ok sometimes the drop in temp will make a start

Slightly longer but in regards to the first problem where it would die… that’s is an issue

If it’s not stalling when starting its ok . that’s what they have said to me

"

[blue_bug]

I know this has been asked before, but I had something like this happened to my Aurion before and it turn out to be the battery.

[vekzla]

I know this has been asked before, but I had something like this happened to my Aurion before and it turn out to be the battery.

They checked my electricals and gave it a pass, I checked it yesterday and it looked good.

[Steven]

Are you holding the key on "start" for that entire time? Try just flicking it to "start" and let go of it - the Aurion's ECU should keep trying to start the car for you.

[vekzla]

Are you holding the key on "start" for that entire time? Try just flicking it to "start" and let go of it - the Aurion's ECU should keep trying to start the car for you.

Yes I am holding it on start. So key it over to start and let it go?

[DJKOR]

Are you holding the key on "start" for that entire time? Try just flicking it to "start" and let go of it - the Aurion's ECU should keep trying to start the car for you.

Yes I am holding it on start. So key it over to start and let it go?

The old school ignition is not like our push-button ignition Steve. In the keyed ignition, the starter will only crank when the key is held on start.

vekzla: this is now getting to the point where trying to diagnose this online is going to prove a little difficult. We could keep trying suggestions and you can keep trying them, but this would probably result in a lot of time use up and no solution found. Your best bet would be to find a reputable mechanic to check over the car for you.

As for the battery issue, I have indeed heard cases similar to yours where they said the battery passed all the typical tests, but putting in a new battery fixed it. Go figure. If you can get your hands on another battery to test it, maybe that might be useful.

[vekzla]

Are you holding the key on "start" for that entire time? Try just flicking it to "start" and let go of it - the Aurion's ECU should keep trying to start the car for you.

Yes I am holding it on start. So key it over to start and let it go?

The old school ignition is not like our push-button ignition Steve. In the keyed ignition, the starter will only crank when the key is held on start.

vekzla: this is now getting to the point where trying to diagnose this online is going to prove a little difficult. We could keep trying suggestions and you can keep trying them, but this would probably result in a lot of time use up and no solution found. Your best bet would be to find a reputable mechanic to check over the car for you.

As for the battery issue, I have indeed heard cases similar to yours where they said the battery passed all the typical tests, but putting in a new battery fixed it. Go figure. If you can get your hands on another battery to test it, maybe that might be useful.

Thank you for your reply, its great to know that there are people who are willing to help. I will keep you guys posted when a solution is reached.

Thanks!

[Steven]

Are you holding the key on "start" for that entire time? Try just flicking it to "start" and let go of it - the Aurion's ECU should keep trying to start the car for you.

Yes I am holding it on start. So key it over to start and let it go?

The old school ignition is not like our push-button ignition Steve. In the keyed ignition, the starter will only crank when the key is held on start.

Could've sworn it was, but this is thinking back a long time to when I drove the standard sportivos around Mt Cotton so it sounds like my memory's a bit off (may have been the new Commodore or Falcon there that did it).

If a new battery is worth trying, wouldn't it have the same effect (or better) to just try jumper cables first?