New Unichip, beter then Power FC ?

[Orbit]

Wel wel, I'm just returning from my favorite tuner who had some good and exciting news for me.

I already was pretty interested in the Dastek Unichip, it made some serious diferences already on our beloved 2zz-GE engine but was unable to change the shiftoverpoint between the 2 cams. I myself found that to me a pretty big shortcomming.

As Northy made the step towards the PowerFC and got some great results it coucht my attention. Confirming the posible gains by dooing some research on american forums (where the power fc is popular) my mind was really getting set on getting a powerFC. BUT it would be easaly twice the price of a dastek and be limited only to my car, also waranty would be an issue since there is no official Apex'i distribution. 3 giant downsides to this solution.

I told all this to my tuner and he said me to wait a bit because he was having a meeting in the UK with some Dastek people and see what they would think about it.

So today I drove by to see what he found out. And it was all good :)

Apparently Dastek just released a new version of their Unichip which does has the ability to change the liftpoint. Toghether with the things it already could do it commes pretty much on the same level as the Power FC but cheaper and universal for every car. Considering the fitting problems with the PowerFc to a corolla it just might be the ideal solution.

So, as soon as I have some cash to spare this baby will be fitted and tuned. Unfortunately having cash to spare is rare for me so this wil not happen soon. But maybe someone about to go the PowerFC route should stalk his local Dastek dealer to look at this solution.

[Northy]

unless the unichip is a stand alone ECU its not better then a Power FC, if you ask around you will find that the guys that have Unichips are impressed when they first get them and over the time the gains that the Unichip gives you wear off as the stock ECU learns around it. Just checked out the DASTEK site and there is no mention of a new Unichip??

[Orbit]

I never heard of an effect that would wear off. Around here PSI powerboxes are superpopular wich are essentialy super simplified piggybacks and never did i hear off the effect wearing off.

But better safe then sorry so i'm looking up some long term dastek users.

It not beeing on the website sounds right. He discribed the 'new' dastek as an update more then a completely new version combined with an optional lift controler. The dastek already could activate external stuff following certain conditions (rpms, temperature, throttle position) and they use that for an external lift controler (cheap option, about 100€ he said).

I guess in time they will mention something about it on their website. To be honnest I'm still wondering which is the official website from Dastek. If it is this one : http://www.dastek.co.za/ i'm not even surprised the new stuf isn't on. That website is a joke, no usefull information at all.

Anyway, i'll know fore shure once it is installed. The guy gives a lifetime guarantee on powergains and has a great reputation so i'm pretty shure about it.

[CHA54]

the unichip or any other piggyback will never compare to the powerfc.

With the piggybacks you are still stuck with the factory ECU knock control, so any timing changes the tuner makes are pretty useless once the engine senses a tiny bit of knock, as the stock ECU will pull so much timing out of the map any timing advances made by the piggyback are negated. If you get a bad batch of fuel, the stock ECU will also do what it see's best and basically ignore (ie, map around) any changes the interceptor is trying to make.

Plug in an OBD2 scanner and monitor knock and ignition advance while you're driving. You will then understand the relationship and how easy it is to make the engine knock (knock which the ECU detects, light knocking, not heavy knocking). When the ECU detects enough knock to cause it to pull timing, it takes a fair while for the timing to be put back into the map.

With the piggybacks you also cannot change the revlimit, like you can on the Powerfc.

And lastly, if you get a unichip you're stuck with having to go to Unichip dealers and having to pay unichip tuning prices whenever you need a small change made to the tune. With the PowerFC and other Piggybacks you have more options for where you can get the car tuned, or you can DIY with a wideband.

[NIKICH]

If what you say is true about the ECU resetting everytime it sense something has been changed, why hasn’t it changed when a CAI or exhaust has been added. Im not entirely convinced that the ecu learns about the piggyback system and overrides it. It could be the fact that you get use to the change and this changed setup becomes normal for you.

[Orbit]

Just pulled this of from the UK's Dastek distributo's website:

Check out the feature list below and compare it to any other engine management upgrade - we're sure you'll be impressed.

Variable valve timing adjustment

Rev limit adjustment

Boost limit & level adjustment

Dual maps for use with different fuel grades & types

Water Injection

Nitrous oxide progressive injection

Bigger/supplementary injector handling

Variable induction control

Launch control for turbo vehicles

Full throttle gear changes

Road speed limiter removal

Speedo conversion for imports

Shift light

Idle speed stabilisation

It seems that this is the new unichip. all the other info I found on the net is concerning the old, simplified version. I think ...

[MR22ZZ]

Following the results of a recent Dyno day we are convinced the Unichip gets overridden by the ECU over time and requires a retune regularly to maintin peak performance.

Nikich, the ECU does learn when you add mods, resetting the ECU just hurrys up the process. The ECU sets it ideal A/F maps by averaging data over a period of time. If you don't reset the ECU that time is longer so the time to perform the average with the new bits takes a longer time. Resetting the ECU gets the base average done in 1/2 an hour of driving. As Rollamods said there are changes to the timing too, but with breathing mods like a CAI and exhaust the A/F ratio is the most important thing.

[CHA54]

I'll bet you $1000 the "new" unichip cannot increase the revlimit on any toyota ZZ series motor.

The Emanage ultimate also has a "revlimit" altering function, a MAF replacement with MAP function, variable valve timing adjustment, etc etc, but not many of those extra features actually work on a Toyota. Different story when you apply it to a nissan or honda.

Just pulled this of from the UK's Dastek distributo's website:

Check out the feature list below and compare it to any other engine management upgrade - we're sure you'll be impressed.

Variable valve timing adjustment

Rev limit adjustment

Boost limit & level adjustment

Dual maps for use with different fuel grades & types

Water Injection

Nitrous oxide progressive injection

Bigger/supplementary injector handling

Variable induction control

Launch control for turbo vehicles

Full throttle gear changes

Road speed limiter removal

Speedo conversion for imports

Shift light

Idle speed stabilisation

It seems that this is the new unichip. all the other info I found on the net is concerning the old, simplified version. I think ...

[CAP]

So are we saying that long term (unless you're willing to do regular re-tunes) Piggy back ECU's aren't worth the expenditure because over time the car will return back to the original settings ?

[NIKICH]

Following the results of a recent Dyno day we are convinced the Unichip gets overridden by the ECU over time and requires a retune regularly to maintin peak performance.

Nikich, the ECU does learn when you add mods, resetting the ECU just hurrys up the process. The ECU sets it ideal A/F maps by averaging data over a period of time. If you don't reset the ECU that time is longer so the time to perform the average with the new bits takes a longer time. Resetting the ECU gets the base average done in 1/2 an hour of driving. As Rollamods said there are changes to the timing too, but with breathing mods like a CAI and exhaust the A/F ratio is the most important thing.

In saying that Blue_Stivo

Whats the cost of a retune and how long in the members that have a unichip did the upgrade last before the ECU reset the changes

[perthcamry]

After talking to the guy who did my car with the Greedy Emange. It seems its all in how you wire it up. As long as you put the information on the output rather than on the input side the ECU does not know its been added.

Example:

You want to add says add 6% extra fuel at a certain throttle response…..

Standard ECU Chip says 30mv, Emanage says 30mv +3mv output to the injectors = 33mv.

That’s from what I understand on it.

[CHA54]

if your ECU relearns around the piggyback, you can always do an ECU reset to get it back to how it was.

There's a few factors effecting how an ECU might relearn around a piggyback, the most important factor is how aggressive the adjustments are in the piggyback and if the tuner actually had a scanner hooked up monitoring the stock ECU while they're tuning the piggyback to ensure they're not pushing the limits too far.

Normal "Dyno Tuning" services vary in cost from workshop to workshop, I've seen them vary from $90-150/hr.

It doesn't matter if the ECU doesn't know if you've added fuel or timing. The knock control is still the biggest factor in the tuning of the piggyback.

eg, ECU thinks it's advancing 20deg, you've added an additional 5deg advance, ECU picks up knock, retards timing by 15degrees.... You're then making less power than you would be stock. You also can't try to offset the ecu's ignition retard with extra advance because if the ECU is trying to retard the timing and is still experiencing knock at level's it deems inappropriate, it will go into limp mode.

After talking to the guy who did my car with the Greedy Emange. It seems its all in how you wire it up. As long as you put the information on the output rather than on the input side the ECU does not know its been added.

Example:

You want to add says add 6% extra fuel at a certain throttle response…..

Standard ECU Chip says 30mv, Emanage says 30mv +3mv output to the injectors = 33mv.

That’s from what I understand on it.

[negatron]

hey... my totally funny take on this thread was taken out!

stop abusing them mod powers northy!

Edited January 27, 2006 by negatron

[lucio_libre]

Nerd talk here... To get the best tuning possible, I dont think its worth the hastle to get the piggy back, They are limited. A stand alone ECU will provide the best tuning possible, but also be the most expensive because of tuning.

[mx83toy]

MOTEC - GOOD