White smoke on every startup

[Lew]

Hi all just brought a 2015 GX with 1000005kms and on all start ups blowing heaps of smoke. I have read forums and believe the motor is sludged up. Had my mechanic do a flush full service and new plugs, compression is very good. But still tons of smoke. I will do more regular service 3000 to 5000km. Has any one added a oil catch can to help remove oil vapours 

[campbeam]

What you need to do is to also either clean or replace the Positive Crankcase Ventilation [PCV] valve.

If you have done enough reading particularly on this Forum then you will know that the underlying cause is the oil baffles in the valve cover are sludged up enough so the oil does not drain quickly enough. End result is oil and vapours being drawn into the intake via the PCV valve line. 

I have added an oil catch can plus an inline filter to help remove the oil vapours. It is useful only after the engine has been desludged.

Quickest and better solution is to remove the front valve cover and give it a total clean to remove the accumulated oil sludge. 

After years of short oil change intervals, I finally found a solution that has worked for me. I now get the engine oil hot and then drain it. I then refill the engine using the heated engine oil via the PCV valve opening in the valve cover. This presumably helps to dissolve most of the sludge in that baffle cover area. I have done this for the last few oil changes and now incorporate it into my overkill oil change procedure.   

After the recent oil change, the oil on the dipstick should be clear. As engine operation time accumulates, it will turn a light golden colour then a darker golden colour. Definitely change the oil before it becomes a heavily contaminated black cover.

Suggest that you consider an oil change interval of 3 months or 3000kms until the engine is desludged and not blowing white smoke on startup. 

[Lew]

Thanks Campbeam I am having rockercover removed and cleaned and will increase oil change intervals. I like the idea of using oil to flush rocker cover baffle thanks mate properly still fit catch can.

[Tony Prodigy]

11 hours ago, Lew said:

Hi all just brought a 2015 GX with 1000005kms and on all start ups blowing heaps of smoke. I have read forums and believe the motor is sludged up. Had my mechanic do a flush full service and new plugs, compression is very good. But still tons of smoke. I will do more regular service 3000 to 5000km. Has any one added a oil catch can to help remove oil vapours 

Ashley is 100% spot on with your issue.
I suspect you've been following the stupid oil service interval laid out in the Toyota service booklet. You have no idea how many people who have, complained about about smoke or sludge issues.

Now that it is sludged up, you will need to do the engine flush as mentioned and then very regular oil services for a prolonged period of time to bring it back. Then just keep it under 10k, preferably 8K. Oil is cheap, especially when the big three outlets offer regular specials so there's no excuse for doing regular oil services.

 

[campbeam]

2 hours ago, Lew said:

Thanks Campbeam I am having rockercover removed and cleaned and will increase oil change intervals. I like the idea of using oil to flush rocker cover baffle thanks mate properly still fit catch can.

Good idea to get fast results. Definitely consider reducing the oil change interval, keep monitoring the oil colour then increase the oil change interval.

I got that suggestion from Tony about refilling via the PCV hole in the valve cover. 

Located my post back in July 2020 where I finished the installation of the catch can. 

 

[Lew]

4 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Ashley is 100% spot on with your issue.
I suspect you've been following the stupid oil service interval laid out in the Toyota service booklet. You have no idea how many people who have, complained about about smoke or sludge issues.

Now that it is sludged up, you will need to do the engine flush as mentioned and then very regular oil services for a prolonged period of time to bring it back. Then just keep it under 10k, preferably 8K. Oil is cheap, especially when the big three outlets offer regular specials so there's no excuse for doing regular oil services.

 

Thanks Tony just brought the car and driven about 200kms previous owner not doing the right thing working with my mechanic and car dealer to resolve issue. Have passed Ashley,s answer on to mechinc. 

[Tony Prodigy]

23 minutes ago, Lew said:

Thanks Tony just brought the car and driven about 200kms previous owner not doing the right thing working with my mechanic and car dealer to resolve issue. Have passed Ashley,s answer on to mechinc. 

No problem. Good luck with everything. 

The engine will recover, just give it some time.

[ZZT86]

@LewYou certain it's sludge ? And is that 100K kms or 1 million ?

[Lew]

1 hour ago, ZZT86 said:

@LewYou certain it's sludge ? And is that 100K kms or 1 million ?

Sorry mate 1005000kms

[campbeam]

2 hours ago, Lew said:

Thanks Tony just brought the car and driven about 200kms previous owner not doing the right thing working with my mechanic and car dealer to resolve issue. Have passed Ashley,s answer on to mechinc. 

Good if the dealer is genuine and going to honour their warranty. Another member was in the same situation and it finally got resolved under warranty by removing the front valve cover and giving it a thorough clean.

Only If the valve train is badly sludged up would a mechanic also recommend dropping the engine pan and cleaning the oil pick up screen and tube. I very much doubt that this would be the case if your vehicle only has 100K on the odometer. 

As background information, the 2GR-FE is a modern engine design with smaller oil passages, tighter tolerances and is prone to oil sludge. This why regular oil changes using a quality full synthetic engine oil of the recommended oil viscosity e.g. 5W-30 with genuine Toyota oil filter cartridges are essential when using the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval. 

If your vehicle has not been serviced by a Toyota dealership, then the service centre may potentially have used budget quality engine oils and non-genuine oil filter cartridges. 

Personally, I use non-genuine oil filter cartridges which only have a recommended 5000 km change interval. I have been changing oil and filter cartridges at 2500 km intervals because most of my driving is short distance. 

[Lew]

2 hours ago, campbeam said:

Good if the dealer is genuine and going to honour their warranty. Another member was in the same situation and it finally got resolved under warranty by removing the front valve cover and giving it a thorough clean.

Only If the valve train is badly sludged up would a mechanic also recommend dropping the engine pan and cleaning the oil pick up screen and tube. I very much doubt that this would be the case if your vehicle only has 100K on the odometer. 

As background information, the 2GR-FE is a modern engine design with smaller oil passages, tighter tolerances and is prone to oil sludge. This why regular oil changes using a quality full synthetic engine oil of the recommended oil viscosity e.g. 5W-30 with genuine Toyota oil filter cartridges are essential when using the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval. 

If your vehicle has not been serviced by a Toyota dealership, then the service centre may potentially have used budget quality engine oils and non-genuine oil filter cartridges. 

Personally, I use non-genuine oil filter cartridges which only have a recommended 5000 km change interval. I have been changing oil and filter cartridges at 2500 km intervals because most of my driving is short distance. 

Thanks Ashley with the mechanic now and will remove valve covers tomorrow. Will be interesting to found out how much sludge had built up.

[campbeam]

20 minutes ago, Lew said:

Thanks Ashley with the mechanic now and will remove valve covers tomorrow. Will be interesting to found out how much sludge had built up.

Hope that your mechanic can take a few photos that you can then post here on the Forum.

It will be interesting to see how much sludge has accumated around the valve gear.

Just remembered that another advantage of regular oil changes is that when the timing chain and tensioner is well lubricated with clean oil it should last the lifetime of the engine and not need to be replaced.

Because I am DIY etc., I do have a tendency to overservice my vehicle and do a fair bit of preventative maintenance. Consequently, I would much rather do extra oil changes for engine reliability and to avoid costly repairs caused by neglect.

[Tony Prodigy]

10 hours ago, campbeam said:

Only If the valve train is badly sludged up would a mechanic also recommend dropping the engine pan and cleaning the oil pick up screen and tube. I very much doubt that this would be the case if your vehicle only has 100K on the odometer. 

That's always a worry too. You don't want the oil pick up restricted that's for sure.

Sad thing is, all this drama can be avoided if people are armed with the right advice from the beginning.

[Tony Prodigy]

7 hours ago, campbeam said:

Hope that your mechanic can take a few photos that you can then post here on the Forum.

I agree. Pictures are valuable to any forum when trying to work through issues. Takes the guesswork out and gives everyone a learning opportunity.

[Lew]

On 7/5/2021 at 3:43 AM, Tony Prodigy said:

I agree. Pictures are valuable to any forum when trying to work through issues. Takes the guesswork out and gives everyone a learning opportunity.

Afternoon all my mechanic sent me some pics. There was a lot of sludge and took 6 goes of degreaser  and kero and pressure wash to clear out all the sludge, the other pics are the sensers before and after. I don't have the car back yet, looking forward to a drive and see how it is.

[ZZT86]

Pics of heads ? Out of curiosity what was the service history like & with whom ? Did they use dino, semi synthetic or full synthetic oils? Looking at the valve cover it certainly looks like owner neglect. Real pitty as the Kluger is an awesome truck.

[Tony Prodigy]

9 hours ago, Lew said:

Afternoon all my mechanic sent me some pics. There was a lot of sludge and took 6 goes of degreaser  and kero and pressure wash to clear out all the sludge, the other pics are the sensers before and after. I don't have the car back yet, looking forward to a drive and see how it is.

Good God that's sludgy. It's a good thing you caught it now. It's a miracle the VVTI is still functioning. 
Another piece of advice would be to have your mechanic go through the sump bolt hole with a camera (most good mechanics should have one) and check the state of the sump. Not sure if you can see the oil pick up though. The sump pan may also need removing just to make sure the pick up screen isn't half blocked with that crusty stuff.

[Tony Prodigy]

8 hours ago, ZZT86 said:

Out of curiosity what was the service history like & with whom ? Did they use dino, semi synthetic or full synthetic oils?

OP doesn't mention service history and claims he only just bought the car. You'd want to know it has had some kind of service history being a 2015 model. The books should be there right ? Who would buy a car without one ?

I would bet money that the previous owner followed the stupid book service intervals AND went over further compounding the issue. I'll never understand how people spend so much money on a nice car then skimp on the very basics of maintenance.

I hope it works out well for him though. That thing is crusty for its very short life.

[campbeam]

Enlightening picture. Certainly a lot worse than what I was expecting to see. I would expect that there is a just as much or a lot more sludge around the valve gear.

Service history should give some clues as to the degree of neglect. Those ridiculous 12mth/15K oil change intervals are a precursor to cumulative sludge build up. I will take a guess that the previous owner drove 20K kms per year and did annual oil changes. Probably minimised service costs then bought a new vehicle to repeat the cycle.  

Hopefully the mechanic will also have cleaned the VVTi controllers and PCV valve. I am guessing that the mechanic may be waiting approval from the dealership to remove the sump and clean the oil pick up screen and assembly. After that another engine flush then new oil and filter cartridge. 

Certainly interested to get all of the follow up details.

[campbeam]

I have most likely viewed this YouTube video a few times . Even though the presenter [love his accent] is talking about Toyota vehicles with different engines and higher mileage, message is clear to me to check the condition/colour of the oil and not wait for 5000 miles/8000kms oil change interval.

If you want the engine to last, then do frequent oil changes. As the engine ages, most likely it is going to require a shorter oil change interval. Even though times have changed, old school approach of 5000 km oil change interval still has merit.

 

[Tony Prodigy]

That's a good message he sends in that video. Don't go so much by the Kays, even if the chosen interval is 5K, look at the oil condition and don't wait for the kays to reach the interval as there is an evolving situation already when the oil has turned dark and looks burned. 

The problem here with most who go with the log book service can be out of pure ignorance. I bet if they watched a few videos on sludged up engines and join a fine forum like this, they would quickly know the right way to go about it.

[ZZT86]

In all honesty, 5000K miles (about 8100kms) isn't all that bad provided a full synthetic oil is used and is within spec and the owner doesn't neglect the car often by consistently doing short trips and/or trashing it by doing long haul heavy towing - one or all of these have the potential to degrade oil quickly. So a lot of onus is on the owner for taking note of how the car/truck is used & to take appropriate servicing action. Problem is, as most of you have pointed out many times before, that most people don't know, understand or care for proper use or maintenance & will blindingly stretch out the already long OCI.

A company/business vehicle just compounds the situation even further where cost is king.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by ZZT86

[Tony Prodigy]

4 hours ago, ZZT86 said:

In all honesty, 5000K miles (about 8100kms) isn't all that bad provided a full synthetic oil is used and is within spec and the owner doesn't neglect the car

I agree. If the engine has a known history and is relatively clean internally, then 5k isn't al that much. In this case though I would defintely shorten the oil interval.

Just need to keep an eye on the oil colour. 

[Hiro]

On 7/4/2021 at 4:48 PM, Lew said:

Sorry mate 1005000kms

Are you sure there isn't one too many zeros there?  A million k in 5 years (because no-one drove anywhere last year) is 200,000k a year, 10 times what the average person probably does.

 

And if it is true, no offence but no-one in their right mind would buy a million-k car with no service history (especially not a late-model one).

[Tony Prodigy]

On 7/4/2021 at 4:48 PM, Lew said:

Sorry mate 1005000kms

 

22 hours ago, Hiro said:

Are you sure there isn't one too many zeros there?  A million k in 5 years (because no-one drove anywhere last year) is 200,000k a year, 10 times what the average person probably does.

I thought the same, but assumed it was a typo and chalked it up as 100,500 kays not 1,005,000 kays. I hope OP can put us out of our misery 

It's a lot of damage for 100 odd Kays though, if it were the case.