Newbies in Buy & Sell

[Buddha]

I'm just wondering, maybe Steve can answer this ... do we have any figures on people who join TOCA just to sell stuff, i.e. that's their only contribution to the Forums?

The reason I ask is that I know some other forums restrict people from selling items on the forums until they've been a member for a while and have contributed to the forums, so that you can't just use them to sell goods ... they consider people who have just joined to sell, even if they're a bona fide individual, as a trader, and therefore the usual trader rules should apply if they wish to do so.

By doing that, they also give credibility to the seller. A member is likely to feel much more comfortable buying an item from an established member than if they were buying from someone they don't know with only 1 or 2 posts to their name.

As I say, I don't know if this is a problem for TOCA, but if it is, maybe such a restriction is a viable option.

Cheers.

[neK]

Guess theres good and bad points for each side.

Good is that if ppl wanna offload their stuff for cheap then it benefits us

Bad point is that we have no history on them and whether or not they can be trusted (which is why in these cases you should stick with a pickup + cash option instead).

Overclockers.com.au have a 90 day membership before the trading forum comes up, so maybe a reduced length like 30 days would be a good idea.

Other things i would like to suggest is to stop these PM bids.

I think it should be a level playing ground, ie list an item, ppl bid for it, no PM bids should be allowed.

When the price satisfies the seller, the seller should place a notice saying "closing in 12-24 hours, if your bid isnt beaten then its yours"

This gives a chance for others to offer a counter bid if they really want that item, rather than make a bid via PM, then get told its sold right after.

[Brad!]

Like the latest car for sale on board, is a free car sales add.

I think that they need to have min number of posts, rather then just 30 days. Anyone can join sit on there ***** for 30 days then put things up for sale

I think around 50, and they have to be checked. I think For sale should be able to be read by anyone, but there is no NEW TOPIC, or ADD REPLY..

In regards to PM.. I think that there should be two sections in the board. One where the owner sets a price, ie. $200, basically first in best dressed. I think the second one should be for the people that say Make an offer. It should be a requirement that all the price enquiry's should be seen, because in the case of, make an offer, the best offer will get it. I dont see any problem in PMing when its a set price

my 2 cents

[iNdCeNt]

i agree, something has to be done to many ppl join just to sell and make no contibutions at all.

[Azza]

I am also in agreeance about people joining just to sell.. Maybe have a dual requirement, 30 days or 50 posts....whichever is first...

I have no problem with people PMing for sales as this isn't ebay, it's a FOR SALE thread (not FOR AUCTION)...so, when someone posts for sale, first in best dressed....

I also feel that all FOR SALE adds should be locked for postings, so we don't end up with pages of drabble. The Seller can then add posts with extra information, or edit the original if needed.

I reckon that there should be a minimum requirement too about what information should be posted for sale. How's this...

1) Minimum 1 Picture

2) Price

3) Alternate contact details, ie email or phone number

4) Age of product

I get a little annoyed with having to scroll through pages of gas-bagging to find info on something for sale and still not find what I am looking for...

Just my 2c worth... :)

[SuperDave]

Azza, don't forget about the location of the product.

But I agree with some form of requirement. Looks like its 100% in favour so far.

[Brad!]

i think that there would be two problems

If we had the 30 post limit, you would find that 30 posts would come up in um, 3hrs.

At the same time i feel that if you used a 1 month sign up requirement, people would leave there accounts, and then come back.

Bit of both i think would provide the best outcome.

It is kinda a kick in the guts to see people come on and abuse the FOR SALE board, and not just the fact of people signing up to sell things, something else a tad disturbing caught my eye (For those that have read through it would know what im talking about)

Basically, something needs to be set up in all regards that makes sure people dont abuse the system!

[Azza]

The other option is, and I dunno if the board can do this or not....but when a person posts a FOR SALE, that it can't be viewed by non Mods/Admin unless a Mod or Admin allow it, kinda like queing them up for a release....

just another thought...

[SILVABULLIT]

The other option is, and I dunno if the board can do this or not....but when a person posts a FOR SALE, that it can't be viewed by non Mods/Admin unless a Mod or Admin allow it, kinda like queing them up for a release....

just another thought...

Good idea again Azza your on a roll!!!! I think the idea of getting the moderators to approve "for sale" items is a great idea as we can then approve items for sale from members or stop the case of people signing up just to flog their crap. (like the case of john3 serial forum crap flogger)

[Brad!]

This is becoming more and more of a problem

Yesterday someone posted a phone for sale on your board. This person has been a member for over 1 year, and has to far only made......

Do you think we will change the workings of the for sale board?

[RME1]

<_< how come the moderators/super admin hasn't done anything to curb this stuff? 2bnvd has been highlighting these problems for the past month now! it's like watching aleaking tap drip...drip...drip...drip...drip...

[SILVABULLIT]

<_< how come the moderators/super admin hasn't done anything to curb this stuff? 2bnvd has been highlighting these problems for the past month now! it's like watching aleaking tap drip...drip...drip...drip...drip...

I have been removing posts periodically and keeping an eye on members posting stuff for sale. All moderators know who they are and we are currently working on a favourable solution to the problem. It also has to be approved by the administrators as well which seems to take a while too.

If you do see this happen then by all means please report it to a moderator and we then can deal with it as we sometimes do miss things. :D

[Brad!]

I think 1month, with a minimum of 30 posts

Not just 30 posts, or 1 month,

rather 1 month with a minimum of 30 posts completed in that 1 month period

COmon thats only 1 post a day!

Too add to that... To administrate who can post there, the easiest thing to do whould be to add a new member rank. Currently we only have newbie and advanced member. I think we should add in Certified seller, or something along those lines. By doing that, you no straight away who can sell stuff, but also in setting up the forums you can say only Certified sellers/mods can get into this.

I think the 1month 30 posts thing should be used, but once the user has done there 30 posts, they should pm a mod

Hope this makes sence!!!!!!!!!!!!

here are the little sqaures even !!! lol, too much time on my hands

Edited May 4, 2006 by 2bnvd

[DHC09]

Just a thought...

Is signing up to our fourm to sell stuff really that bad?

Its ur choice whether to buy the item or not. If u think the seller is shady have a chat with him/her over msn or something, and get to know them and the item. Apart from the group of ppl that have a reputation on TOCAU, i wouldnt really trust anyone else on here with regards to money. Theres always a risk when buying/selling things online. For example that guy "hoho" doesnt reply to the post obviously wont get anything sold here, and i had to email him over and over to get info.. and i didnt end up getting anything from him anyway. And on the other hand, when i was selling my wheels the buyer PM me and we had a good chat over msn for 20mins and we had a deal! i even gave him a discount cause of that.

If there are ppl from other fourms with universal parts, why not let them sell here? i see it as a better opportnity for us! I've already posted my muffler and already sold my subs on the oztoyota fourm and i never post there cause its all echos and yaris, but the guy in sydney that bought my subs was really happy that i posted there, otherwise he wud never have known, and no-one in TOC wanted my subs.,

As for commerical sellers posing as individuals, i think it will become quite obivious as they will keep having stuff for sale and have large quanties avaliable, ie 3 bumpers, 5 sets of HIDs, 4 sets of kings springs... And if u experienced some doggy sellers (slow delivery, not honest about item quality/condition) warn others if they post/sell again.

See it as a opportunity! It'll be obivous if they are shady, its the internet, theres always a risk.

Edited May 9, 2006 by DHC09

[Azza]

Just a thought...

Is signing up to our fourm to sell stuff really that bad?

Apart from the group of ppl that have a reputation on TOCAU, i wouldnt really trust anyone else on here with regards to money.

I guess you answered that question yourself.

I feel that there are two issues here with regards to Newbies selling stuff here.

Firstly, like you have mentioned, yourself, and alot of the rest of us do not trust people we don't know the reputation of. I trade on eBay, but there are some relative security features there like ratings etc. Here there isn't.

Secondly, when a bunch of new people sign up to simply flog their items and not respond to genuine member enquiries (like Hoho), then this just simply clogs up the forum with tonnes of unneccessary posts...

That's the way I see it....

[DHC09]

Thanks for your comments Azza

With your second pt I agree. But i'm sure there is enough of us "usuals" to spot them and filter them out. Just need to be more proactive in doing so (like reporting to mods etc), and all should be fine.

But I do disagree with others idea of having to post a certain amount or be a member for a certain amount of time. Whats to say the guy joins and post whores on the lil games that we've got (king of the hill etc..) or as others mentioned earlier, joined ages ago and just lefted it. If a keen seller is offering a good deal, our forum will surely miss out under those rules.

A genuine seller should responed and discuss with you either by reply-posts or msn, and thats who you should buy from not by look at their posts amounts. It'll be silly to trust someone more with 300 posts than someone with 3. As long as they are helpful, I personally dont see it as a problem. Part of eBays success is the variety of sellers and items. I'm sure theres ppl like myself that would like to see every now and then an item for sale thats not the same old stuff.

As for ppl using our forum for a "free" ad.. so what? at least it'll most likely to be a relativant ad.. unlike half the crap u get from radio/tv

Edited May 9, 2006 by DHC09

[neK]

as with all trading forums, if you dont trust the person dont buy it.

If you cant get a real world contact number from them, dont buy it.

TOCA is not and should not be responsible for ppl who lose their money, maybe we can establish a "trusted Traders" thread?

If the person posting the sale item is a new member who seems to have joined for the sake of selling, ask them for the option to pick it up, if they refuse, well dont buy it.

If you ask the person inquiries and they dont respond, give them time, if they take more than 48 hours (after you post in the thread - which is also why i prefer NON-PM inquiries/bids - keeps everything transparent), a mod should considering deleting the post cos clogs up the forum.

Edited May 9, 2006 by neK

[Brad!]

I think the 1month 30 posts thing should be used, but once the user has done there 30 posts, they should pm a mod

I think the issue its self is broad. Not just trust issue, but also contributing to the forum as a whole. Because when people come on here and flog stuff of, its like free advertising, like carsales charges for cars, as does other such companies to sell their products. Im not saying that they have to pay to sell things, rather just contribute to the forum instead of "Using" us

And with the posting thing, i meant that after 30 posts they PM a mod so they can see if these 30 posts are legit. You no what i mean, like if they see that 100% posts are in one of the whore games then i can understand.

By doing this it should prevent the users, and those that want to sell things and dont just want to use us, will use the forum, rather then "USE" them to sell there stuff

This is my 2c, some might disagree, some might agree, either way this is just my opinion

But at the end of it, i think that there needs to be conditions of posting no matter what decisions get made about who can sell who cant

I think that the post MUST include

Contact number,

Picture,

Details

Price

On the more touchy things Serial Number, especially on phones a picture of this

I think this is security that needs to put in place

I know that some people get annoyed at ghost bidders who PM the owner, as a condition i think that either the person wishing to buy should post what there willing to pay, to give fair competition

However at the end of the day its the buyers decision who he shall sell the item to

There is my 2c take it or leave it :D

[DHC09]

Seriously how are the mods or anyone supposed to determine whether someones posts are a contribution. I post mostly about F1 but most the ppl here couldnt care less about F1. And some ppl just dont have much to say, inturn ppl will be forced make 30 or 50 useless posts/comments to sell something. I personally find useless comments more annoying than the odd dodgy ad. Plus dodgy ads are easier for mods to remove than having the rest of the forum clogged with crap.

No need to make things so complicated and snob off new sellers. It is buy/sell afterall, you gotta consider the buyers too. They may not see it as "using" our forum, but the oppourtunity to score a good deal. In fact giving TOC members a good deal is a contriubtion itself ;) no one is making you buy it so i cant see how they are using us, I see diet coke ads very day and I never bought any.

I do agree we need basic details (if they dont the mods just remove it or the idea of a mod to autherise will work well too), although some might be uncomfortable about broadcasting their phone numbers to everyone.

Edited May 10, 2006 by DHC09

[neK]

No need to make things so complicated and snob off new sellers. It is buy/sell afterall, you gotta consider the buyers too. They may not see it as "using" our forum, but the oppourtunity to score a good deal. In fact giving TOC members a good deal is a contriubtion itself ;) no one is making you buy it so i cant see how they are using us, I see diet coke ads very day and I never bought any.

Exactly!

Both sides can benefit from this, a seller gets to sell their item, a buyer gets to get something they want for cheaper than expected.

Just need to take the necessary precautions, and as i said above, if you dont trust the seller, dont buy it.

[Azza]

Maybe broadcasting a phone number may be a bit rich, but certainly it should, rather MUST, be made available to the interested purchaser via PM or otherwise.

As for the 'Ghost Bidders', I can't see an issue with this, as if the situation was that I was to sell something and just want a set price for it, and just want to get rid of it, then there is no harm in saying "$40.00 to the first serious purchaser", then a quick PM from someone saying that they want it ensures the item is not sitting there waiting for the thread to be responded to.

I know myself, if someone PM's me, then there is more chance to get back to them quicker rather than reading thre thread, cause I can only do that when I have spare time, as opposed to recieving an email telling me I have the PM, I can then check it straight away.

Somehow I don't think that there is going to be any clear cut solution here. Most of us have kinda come up woth one or two really good ways to make it better, but then there are also a few ways that none of us agree with.

How's this for an option:

** FOR SALE posts get posted as normal.

** The FOR SALE posts are then regularly scanned by mods and suspect ones removed or moderated if they look dodgy ie, missing crucial information or look like it is just someone trying to take advantage....

Like I said, I dunno, all we can do is keep coming up with ideas.....

[Brad!]

Yer i agree

Im not trying to cause problems or anything, and people seem to be disagreeing, but all im trying to do is give my view on it

I think the best idea is just to get people to monitor it continuously...

I suspose at the end of the day, we both want something

We want to sell something

We want to buy something

But either way i think a few regulations need to be set up, just so there is consistence, and everyone is happy

[DHC09]

How's this for an option:

** FOR SALE posts get posted as normal.

** The FOR SALE posts are then regularly scanned by mods and suspect ones removed or moderated if they look dodgy ie, missing crucial information or look like it is just someone trying to take advantage....

Sounds good.

The seller should decide on whether he/she wants to auction it or just sell it to the 1st buyer, i think someone already suggested having two parts 1.Auction and 2.Set price . In any case the buyer and seller will need to communicate privately in the end to sort out the purchase details, so the "drive-by" sellers wont get too far anyway ;)

One more thing i like to add is when the item is sold, the seller should have the courtesy to let ppl know by posting or get mod to close the sale thred. Nothing more annoying than to wait a few days later to find out its long gone.

Other than that, as long as we all keep an eye out for dodgy ads and report it, all should be dandy :)

[Brad!]

Item:

16" Sportivo Alloy Wheels

including original Turanza tyres, lots of tread left

Location:

Brisbane North.... can be picked up/delivered anywhere sunshine coast -> gold coast

or delivered/posted aus wide at buyers expense

Item Condition:

Very Good

Travelled 27,000km, no gutter rash at all. Rotated at 20,000km service

Reason for Selling:

Getting new wheels

Price:

Reasonable offers only please

Contact Details:

PM me for more info

Picture:

This is how all for sales threads should be set out...

By doing this all those tyre questions can be bipassed, ie.. Why are you selling, will you post, how old, picture, where are you located

makes it so much cleaner

this is a prime example, and i think needs to be placed in terms /conditions in the for sale thread

Edited May 13, 2006 by 2bnvd

[Buddha]

This is a good debate, but I'll just add in where the original query comes from.

I've been a member of OzMazdaClub for a little while since a workmate bought his Mazda and subsequent drag challenges have ensued.

Obviously, not being a Mazda owner, my contributions there have been minimal. But when my father recently had his Mazda6 on the market, I immediately thought of putting an ad on OzMazda.

All for sale ads on those forums are moderated before they appear on the site. My ad of course went to the mods who returned to say that they wouldn't put the ad up as I hadn't demonstrated a reasonable contribution to the forums and therefore they can't determine if I'm a serious member or if I just want to use the forums to sell stuff.

I kinda felt that was a bit tough, but rules is rules so you take it on the chin. They said they get a lot of people just getting on to sell stuff and they came to the conclusion that they didn't want that on their forums. That's why I was asking Steve whether we had any similar concerns, because I know we can just post ads straight up, only being moderated if they are in some way unacceptable.

Personally, I don't see an issue with it, and while we all here love our Toyotas to bits, the fact is that most Toyotas are owned by non-enthusiasts who may have spare bits lying around and are looking for a place to sell to interested parties, but aren't wanting to be involved in forums, meets, etc.