Who got what size cat back

[CME-LFT]

Hey guys, just curious on what size piping the majority of you guys got cat back on you sportivos.

Im thinkin 2 1/4 after hearing from exhaust place that with 2.5 itll have 3kw xtra gain top end but be a little bit laggy lower end. And seeing as the sportivos arnt really torque monsters id rather not have any more lag down low.

Thanks guys

[Northy]

Hey guys, just curious on what size piping the majority of you guys got cat back on you sportivos.

Im thinkin 2 1/4 after hearing from exhaust place that with 2.5 itll have 3kw xtra gain top end but be a little bit laggy lower end. And seeing as the sportivos arnt really torque monsters id rather not have any more lag down low.

Thanks guys

to put it in simple terms, the place your talking to dosent know *****.

[CME-LFT]

Fair enough, u can delete this if im not allowed to mention who, but it was liverpool exhaust and the guys owns 2 stivos. So i thought me might have known what he was talking about, he reckoned he's tried everything on his stivo. But seeing as your cars a beast.... and after speaking xoom and him saying 2.1/4 not really worth spending on and HIS BEAST.lol i guess i might go 2.5

Thanks northy

p.s if anyone clicks other, please mention what size you got done.

Edited August 14, 2008 by CME-LFT

[SILVABULLIT]

Obviously the bloke is a goose. the stock system is in metirc measurements very close to 2.25". So why replace the stock system with something that is almost exactly the same???

As for trying everything he couldn't have tried too much cause we haven't seen any custom headers or anything like that have we??

CES' 2.5" catback make a vast improvement in increasing bottom end and filling in the torque hole between 4-6000rpm. add headers and CAI and it is totally non existent.

ask Natedog6 I'm sure he'll happily tell you how his car now performs......

[nate11six]

Yo yo yo I heard my name.

Lag in bottom end? Pfft... SB and Northy are right. There is no lag with the CES 2.5" Cat-back Exhaust.

I've also got headers and cold air intake.

The improvement in performance is out of sight.

So just for the poll, I have 2.5" Cat-back Exhaust by CES.

Edited August 14, 2008 by natedog11six

[sinan]

im not sure on wat size pipe the guys at livo exhaust use but they do have a ready off the shelf system for the sportivo. i had a chat with the owner chef a while ago and he said he could copy the CES system for me.

[CME-LFT]

Thanks guys, so really there shouldnt be any difference in performance where i get the 2.5 inch from (as its pretty much just a pipe), but seeing as sinan reckons livos got pre made kit i might as well go there and get it(its close to home)

In regards to sb post "add headers and CAI and it is totally non existent" are you referring to the torque hole is non existent or with just cai and headers it doesnt make much improvement without cat back.

Also can you use the stock stivo muffler or its not really worth doing cat back without changing the muffler, from reading around this forum i was thinking twin loop seeing as supposebly there pretty quiet until u push it. I just want something with a little noise at low revs instead of the tingy motor sound before i push it and hit lift.

Once again thanks guys

[SILVABULLIT]

Thanks guys, so really there shouldnt be any difference in performance where i get the 2.5 inch from (as its pretty much just a pipe), but seeing as sinan reckons livos got pre made kit i might as well go there and get it(its close to home)

In regards to sb post "add headers and CAI and it is totally non existent" are you referring to the torque hole is non existent or with just cai and headers it doesnt make much improvement without cat back.

Also can you use the stock stivo muffler or its not really worth doing cat back without changing the muffler, from reading around this forum i was thinking twin loop seeing as supposebly there pretty quiet until u push it. I just want something with a little noise at low revs instead of the tingy motor sound before i push it and hit lift.

Once again thanks guys

CES is more than just the diameter of the pipe. Many have tried to copy but cannot reproduce the gains made or keep the noise levels legal and sounding very nice.

Cat back almost removes the torque hole itself but add the headers and CAI and the progression onto lift isn't as severe as the engine is making more power off lift.

you could use the stock muffler by why?? it's restrictive!! As far as a twin loop muffler is concered why make the exhaust system longer and more restictive?? you basically run through the rear muffler twice adding length to the system. Why not just use a muffler that you only have to pass through once to achieve the same result???

CES mufflers on the catback are custom made and sound nice and quiet when just commuting around but open it up and it has a nice note that doesn't drone, cackle or bark. What more could you want?? Plus it is legal as far as noise levels are concerned.

CES do have a copyright on their catback systems so if someone does try and copy it and then sell them off they could end up with nice lawsuit for breach of copyright regulations.

[xoom]

catco metal cat and 3" all the way through FTW !!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

[Blind Kid Seeks]

Thanks guys, so really there shouldnt be any difference in performance where i get the 2.5 inch from (as its pretty much just a pipe), but seeing as sinan reckons livos got pre made kit i might as well go there and get it(its close to home)

In regards to sb post "add headers and CAI and it is totally non existent" are you referring to the torque hole is non existent or with just cai and headers it doesnt make much improvement without cat back.

Also can you use the stock stivo muffler or its not really worth doing cat back without changing the muffler, from reading around this forum i was thinking twin loop seeing as supposebly there pretty quiet until u push it. I just want something with a little noise at low revs instead of the tingy motor sound before i push it and hit lift.

Once again thanks guys

CES is more than just the diameter of the pipe. Many have tried to copy but cannot reproduce the gains made or keep the noise levels legal and sounding very nice.

Cat back almost removes the torque hole itself but add the headers and CAI and the progression onto lift isn't as severe as the engine is making more power off lift.

you could use the stock muffler by why?? it's restrictive!! As far as a twin loop muffler is concered why make the exhaust system longer and more restictive?? you basically run through the rear muffler twice adding length to the system. Why not just use a muffler that you only have to pass through once to achieve the same result???

CES mufflers on the catback are custom made and sound nice and quiet when just commuting around but open it up and it has a nice note that doesn't drone, cackle or bark. What more could you want?? Plus it is legal as far as noise levels are concerned.

CES do have a copyright on their catback systems so if someone does try and copy it and then sell them off they could end up with nice lawsuit for breach of copyright regulations.

I'd like to see the copyright. how can you possible copyright the assembly of parts that they didnt manufacture themselves.

anyone getting a stainless 2.5" system on there car is in danger of breaching copyright... theres no signature peice of development on their systems at all.

I doubt that they Build the Muffler and it looks awful like A LOT of stainless steel Mufflers on the market.. Infact i have been told by a few exhaust mechanics that they are just a redback mufflers.

[AndrewLy]

you could use the stock muffler by why?? it's restrictive!! As far as a twin loop muffler is concered why make the exhaust system longer and more restictive?? you basically run through the rear muffler twice adding length to the system. Why not just use a muffler that you only have to pass through once to achieve the same result???

so does this ultimately mean that using the stock muffler with 2.5inch catback is pointless? meaning very minimal gains?

[jaderd]

Ive heard the same thing as Blind Kid Seeks......... Also heard from afew exhaust places....with both having done stuff with afew different sportivos.....both had the same statement that our stock exhausts are already in between 2.25 and 2.5......they are not a specific size more in between both (factory) and also as everyone knows i guess is already stainless and a decent size/flow cat. They also stated that if you arent going to go extreme as far as turbo or supercharge etc upgrading to a 2.5" would be overkill on money for gain etc....by all means ill do you a system they said but they believe the majority of our problem with exhaust is rear muffler, both mentioned that first they would reccomend going with a Magnaflow rear muffler.....see how you like it etc.....and if you want further then use that muffler in conjunction with a new 2.5 cat back....they were going more in line of ang for buck i guess and the extra cash for a full stainless 2.5 with muffler mandrel bent (remembering we already have somewhere between 2.25 & 2.5) would not give alot more gain than jsut the rear muffler. Once again just more opinions floating around.......but as they say every bit counts (IHE) money wise and stages to go with maybe try the rear muffler and move from there

oooh and magna flow mufflers as they say ..flow.....can actually install then backwards if want.....thats how good they flow (their catchcry) flow tested 160% above stocks etc...still create enough back pressure rah rah rha

Cheers guys

Edited August 15, 2008 by jaderd

[Northy]

I'd like to invite all those with a 2.5" CES catback and who are not 1,000,000% happy with the gains to make a post now, im thinking we are going to hear the crickets.

All these places that claim that 2.5" is too big are talking out their *****....id say its because they dont have the skill & knowledge to design a system that works and dosent drone like a milo tin. Time and time again these places claim to know what they are talking about and CES is still the only system with proven gains accross the board.

[kevman77]

Well it seems that since the stock exhaust is less than or equal to a quarter inch smaller than 2.5'' that the gains are not that great or even noticeable without a good after market muffler. Since the stock exhaust size provides adequate flow and back pressure it would be feasible to just keep your stock piping and get a good muffler to improve your top end especially. The next step would be CAI(if you don't already have one as it is a basic mod) and headers if have the cash for the PPE ones.

That's my 2 cents.

[$ANGELO$]

4-2-1 headers, metal cat, 2.5 inch all the way though in stainless steel on my 1zz :D

just incase any one asks will it fit on my ascent!

[SILVABULLIT]

Thanks guys, so really there shouldnt be any difference in performance where i get the 2.5 inch from (as its pretty much just a pipe), but seeing as sinan reckons livos got pre made kit i might as well go there and get it(its close to home)

In regards to sb post "add headers and CAI and it is totally non existent" are you referring to the torque hole is non existent or with just cai and headers it doesnt make much improvement without cat back.

Also can you use the stock stivo muffler or its not really worth doing cat back without changing the muffler, from reading around this forum i was thinking twin loop seeing as supposebly there pretty quiet until u push it. I just want something with a little noise at low revs instead of the tingy motor sound before i push it and hit lift.

Once again thanks guys

CES is more than just the diameter of the pipe. Many have tried to copy but cannot reproduce the gains made or keep the noise levels legal and sounding very nice.

Cat back almost removes the torque hole itself but add the headers and CAI and the progression onto lift isn't as severe as the engine is making more power off lift.

you could use the stock muffler by why?? it's restrictive!! As far as a twin loop muffler is concered why make the exhaust system longer and more restictive?? you basically run through the rear muffler twice adding length to the system. Why not just use a muffler that you only have to pass through once to achieve the same result???

CES mufflers on the catback are custom made and sound nice and quiet when just commuting around but open it up and it has a nice note that doesn't drone, cackle or bark. What more could you want?? Plus it is legal as far as noise levels are concerned.

CES do have a copyright on their catback systems so if someone does try and copy it and then sell them off they could end up with nice lawsuit for breach of copyright regulations.

I'd like to see the copyright. how can you possible copyright the assembly of parts that they didnt manufacture themselves.

anyone getting a stainless 2.5" system on there car is in danger of breaching copyright... theres no signature peice of development on their systems at all.

I doubt that they Build the Muffler and it looks awful like A LOT of stainless steel Mufflers on the market.. Infact i have been told by a few exhaust mechanics that they are just a redback mufflers.

Mufflers are custom made especially for Sportivo. CES now use them on a few other applications as well. Their design to suit the application they wanted to use them for. And no they aren't a redback muffler. As far as copyright is concerned you can copy the pipe diameter all you want but the resonator and the muffler are what makes the system effiicient and where the Copyright comes into play. You will always get people trying to copy someone else's design simply becuase they aren't good enough to design it themselves.

you could use the stock muffler by why?? it's restrictive!! As far as a twin loop muffler is concered why make the exhaust system longer and more restictive?? you basically run through the rear muffler twice adding length to the system. Why not just use a muffler that you only have to pass through once to achieve the same result???

so does this ultimately mean that using the stock muffler with 2.5inch catback is pointless? meaning very minimal gains?

Straight to the top of the class there mate!! Ever stood behind a sportivo on full noise?? sounds like a vacuum cleaner!! Hisses quite badly which means restriction.

Ive heard the same thing as Blind Kid Seeks......... Also heard from afew exhaust places....with both having done stuff with afew different sportivos.....both had the same statement that our stock exhausts are already in between 2.25 and 2.5......they are not a specific size more in between both (factory) and also as everyone knows i guess is already stainless and a decent size/flow cat. They also stated that if you arent going to go extreme as far as turbo or supercharge etc upgrading to a 2.5" would be overkill on money for gain etc....by all means ill do you a system they said but they believe the majority of our problem with exhaust is rear muffler, both mentioned that first they would reccomend going with a Magnaflow rear muffler.....see how you like it etc.....and if you want further then use that muffler in conjunction with a new 2.5 cat back....they were going more in line of ang for buck i guess and the extra cash for a full stainless 2.5 with muffler mandrel bent (remembering we already have somewhere between 2.25 & 2.5) would not give alot more gain than jsut the rear muffler. Once again just more opinions floating around.......but as they say every bit counts (IHE) money wise and stages to go with maybe try the rear muffler and move from there

oooh and magna flow mufflers as they say ..flow.....can actually install then backwards if want.....thats how good they flow (their catchcry) flow tested 160% above stocks etc...still create enough back pressure rah rah rha

Cheers guys

Stock system is 59.7mm or there abouts. 2.25" in metric equals 57.15mm. 2.5" in metric equals 63.5mm. It's hard to explain to some people here as you aren't familiar mechanically with how exhaust systems work. the size of the ports on a 2zz are huge for a 1.8 N/A engine. the head flows exceptionallly well from factory thus needs a free flowing system to pull the gases from the ports. That's why you add a set of stock ported headers and the difference is noticable straight away. no shrouding of the port on the head from the mismatch from the header flange. continue down the system. sportivo cat is big and again flows very well for a 1.8 N/A car. the only reason to change this cat is if you are going forced induction. the money you spend on a cat for a 1-2kw gain is riciculous. the stock system after the cat has a small decrease in diameter for some reason creating a restriction. all the stock systems decrease in diameter near the resonator then at the rear muffler. why not increase the diameter by a whopping 3.5-4 mm and let it flow better and more evenly??? This is what CES has done combined with a free flowing resonator and rear muffler.

4-2-1 headers, metal cat, 2.5 inch all the way though in stainless steel on my 1zz :D

just incase any one asks will it fit on my ascent!

Putting that on a 1zz is over kill. 2.25" tops unless you are doing a hell of a lot of internal work.

[xoom]

continue down the system. sportivo cat is big and again flows very well for a 1.8 N/A car. the only reason to change this cat is if you are going forced induction. the money you spend on a cat for a 1-2kw gain is riciculous.

Metal cat FTW !!!!!!!!! :P :P :P :P :P

4-2-1 headers, metal cat, 2.5 inch all the way though in stainless steel on my 1zz :D

just incase any one asks will it fit on my ascent!

Putting that on a 1zz is over kill. 2.25" tops unless you are doing a hell of a lot of internal work.

Come on SB ..... wen u charge ur 1zz ur gonna wanna get those gases out the back end as quickly as possible hence upping to 2.5" ...... u knw just like wen u consume things @ hooters u gotta clear the rear due to the amount of gases extruding from u :lol: :lol: :lol:

[wil_rolla]

4-2-1 headers, metal cat, 2.5 inch all the way though in stainless steel on my 1zz :D

just incase any one asks will it fit on my ascent!

Putting that on a 1zz is over kill. 2.25" tops unless you are doing a hell of a lot of internal work.

i think was preping him self for the S/C that is strapped to the side of the 1zz now.... :D

back to the topic, i'v spoken to a few exhaust places aswell, and afew of them actully said that alot of the cheap stuff will actully make your car go backwards in power...

so i think, regardless of what you get, spend your money on proven gains... dosen't matter whther its a CES or a redback...

[nate11six]

Gains...

I have the new 2.5" cat-back exhaust from CES.

The gains are unbelievable.

Especially with headers and intake. ;)

The design from CES is perfect.

And when you see what other jobs they do, you certainly know that THEY KNOW what they are doing!

2.5" is perfect size. Anything larger would be too big, unless I went Turbo or S/C as mentioned earlier.

[SILVABULLIT]

continue down the system. sportivo cat is big and again flows very well for a 1.8 N/A car. the only reason to change this cat is if you are going forced induction. the money you spend on a cat for a 1-2kw gain is riciculous.

Metal cat FTW !!!!!!!!! :P :P :P :P :P

4-2-1 headers, metal cat, 2.5 inch all the way though in stainless steel on my 1zz :D

just incase any one asks will it fit on my ascent!

Putting that on a 1zz is over kill. 2.25" tops unless you are doing a hell of a lot of internal work.

Come on SB ..... wen u charge ur 1zz ur gonna wanna get those gases out the back end as quickly as possible hence upping to 2.5" ...... u knw just like wen u consume things @ hooters u gotta clear the rear due to the amount of gases extruding from u :lol: :lol: :lol:

you only need a metal cat cause the homus sauce you put in the tank is extremely flammable!! :P

Mate hooters didn't kill me but that kebab you got us at the show and shine last year had me with pin point accuracy. crapping through the eye of a needle!! It was a race at the F1 as to who would get to ues the toilet first lol I pulled rank as the oldest hehehehe

[xoom]

2.5" is perfect size. Anything larger would be too big, unless I went Turbo or S/C as mentioned earlier.

I repeat again 3" FTW !!!!!!!!!!!! :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

[Kenneth]

4-2-1 headers, metal cat, 2.5 inch all the way though in stainless steel on my 1zz :D

just incase any one asks will it fit on my ascent!

Putting that on a 1zz is over kill. 2.25" tops unless you are doing a hell of a lot of internal work.

I think a S/C can justify that :) its in and its running! :D

[CME-LFT]

This has turned into a very informative topic.

So what have i learnt so far,

1. Definently go 2.5' cat back on a system that has proven gains such as CES. if moneys a problem, go 2.5' anyway although it wont be as good as CES.(Only applies to N/A stivos, otherwise 1zz max should be 2.25"

2. Change the muffler as well, something not twin loop (but from what ive read on this forum, any aftermarket exhaust sounds too loud on these cars?)

3. No need to worry about changing the cat seeing as price wise it has minimal gains and its pretty good from the start.

4. Change/port the headers

Anything else Im missing??? Just to sum it up for any new readers as well?

Edited August 16, 2008 by CME-LFT

[nate11six]

That sounds pretty right to me.

But Im sure someone else will have something to add.

[jaderd]

thanx for all the posts guys very informative, most of what was said is what i thought and was hoping would be said.....SB like your spiel above about size of exhaust and headers etc. Today i purchased a 2nd hand Magnaflow muffler off a guy for 90$ cant go wrong great nick twin 4"tip, im pretty sure im just going to spend a little to get it made so that it bolts up to rear flange just like stock muffler....see how it goes and feels etc.......all up maybe $150.....price im selling old quad tip twin one for so no cash outlay.....love it when works like that. If after some investigation with mates i can find a place that does a SS mandrel bent 2.5 cat back similar to CES i may go ahead cost dependent and use the magnalfow muffler i already got as rear muffler and lower cost.....will see........then i guess in time maybe headers, have already got the TRD CAI which has been good for 8-10 kw so see if feel anything from just changing the rear muffler on stock exhaust........i just love the look of the muffler lol.

Cheers