CES EXHAUST SYSTEM FOR STIVO'S

[-JC-]

URGENT ATTENTION - PLEASE READ

Hey Guys,

I just had a call from Brennden. He has just got a call from Trevor, who is a little frustrated as he has received 4 calls today about this system. The questions range from diameter of pipe to the construction of the system.

PLEASE NOTE: Trevor is EXTREMELY busy. If you have any queries please call Brennden on 0412 559 592.

Trevor is getting a little annoyed at having to drop everything to answer questions that could very easily be answered by Brennden, he has also mentioned that the more time he spends answering questions, the less time he spends making systems (and thats not good for any of us).

This is by no means a "*****", simply passing on the message, as Im sure Brennden can answer any queries you may have, if not, leave it with him, and he can approach Trevor with 20 questions, rather than have each person call CES individually.

Your assistance is appreciated, cheers in advance

JC

PS. Shooting of the messenger will not be tolerated ;)

[MR22ZZ]

nah its when you decrease the pressure you increase the velocity, like when you put your finger at the end of a hose, u create a restriction, but he same amount of water that enters the restriction must leave it, thus increasing its velocity.

for example and ill make it easy for u to understand.

The gas or water in this case has a given amount of energy (kinetic energy and static pressure). so we will just say 50 kinetic energey and 50 static energy entering the hose or exhuast pipe, when the water comes to the constriction (your finger) or when it comes to the bend in the pipe which is not as wide as the rest of the pipe, some of the water or gas pressure is sacrificed into kinetic energy. thus the total energy content remains unchanged. The water/gas velocity increases and its pressure decreases.

Thats why the water sprays out when u create a constriction.. moreover thats why the gas at the bend that is smaller in diameter increaes it veloicty.

←

Have any of you actually done fluid or gas dynamics... Yes adding a restriction increases the velocity, but only after the gas passes by. The restriction actually creates a back pressure in the system and eddies form in the air flow that lowers the averaged linear velocity (ALV) of the gas. The same occurs for press and mandrel bends, press mends are 'rougher' so the inperfections create small eddies and when combinded with the randon Brownian motion of the gasses lowers the total air flow and the ALV. the smoother mandrel bends allow a cleaner air flow.

On the subject of ID (internal diameter) like was said previous, there is a peak diameter that this can be (in our case seems to be 2.25-2.5 inch) too narrow and the gas will not escape fast enough after it has been produced, and as mentioned increase the pressure and slow the piston rate and increase the work of the engine. Too large and the heat flow through the gasses is out of control and again you get eddy formation in the the center of the pipe where it is cooler, again lowering the ALV and the pipes also take longer to warm up due to the more dispursed and random air flow.

Combining these 2 theories you produce a pipe that has the least restriction and more constant thermal gradient providing the best air flow possible and the best condition for the engine to work at it's peak performance.

[peekay]

Come on Guys this is about a performance exhaust please lighten up....

[-JC-]

Ok guys, enough.

Rant "on"

To be brutally honest, I have never seen so much bull**** carry on in all my life.

Trevor isnt going to support his living by making pipes for corollas guys, he would make double or even triple the money on making a system for a Gen 3 commodore (of which there are plenty more wanting pipes than there is stivos).

Dyno sheets have been posted in the gallery here

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/gallery/au?page=63

Now, just to make sure everyone is clear.

1. If you think the exhaust is overpriced, DONT BUY IT. All the whinging and bitching in the world isnt going to make Trevor change the price.

2. The system has proven a gain of 9kw at the wheels (see dyno sheet in gallery), if you dont trust dynos, or you dont beleive this claim, DONT BUY IT.

3. If you dont like the method with which the exhaust has been constructed (ie. Mandrel Vs Pressed) DONT BUY IT.

It seems to me that we have a few people in here who consitently stir the pot for their own enjoyment. It wouldnt surprise me if these were also the members who are good at TALKING about modifying their cars, whilst the real enthusiasts are actually out there modifying. Guys, its simple, dont like it? DONT BUY IT.

Rant "off"

JC

Edited October 29, 2004 by -JC-

[Skitzo]

URGENT ATTENTION - PLEASE READ

Hey Guys,

I just had a call from Brennden. He has just got a call from Trevor, who is a little frustrated as he has received 4 calls today about this system. The questions range from diameter of pipe to the construction of the system.

PLEASE NOTE: Trevor is EXTREMELY busy. If you have any queries please call Brennden on 0412 559 592.

Trevor is getting a little annoyed at having to drop everything to answer questions that could very easily be answered by Brennden, he has also mentioned that the more time he spends answering questions, the less time he spends making systems (and thats not good for any of us).

This is by no means a "*****", simply passing on the message, as Im sure Brennden can answer any queries you may have, if not, leave it with him, and he can approach Trevor with 20 questions, rather than have each person call CES individually.

Your assistance is appreciated, cheers in advance

JC

PS. Shooting of the messenger will not be tolerated  ;)

←

Not shooting the messenger here..

But am I not right in thinking that businesses dont dictate terms to the customer? Who is he to complain about people calling to make enquirys?

If he is too busy to answer questions about an exhaust made for corollas perhaps he should have thought twice about making the exhaust in the first place.

[MR22ZZ]

Guys,

I was defending the process Trevor used, and think the exhaust is awesome, if I had the cash lying around I'd buy one myself unfortunately I'm just a poor uni student and don't have cash lying around for every single mod (PhD in Materials Engineering, specialising in polymer liquid coatings, so yeah I know fluids!!!!!).

But yes this price for a proven custom exhaust is actually pretty reasonable, sure you buy off the shelf for cheaper but proven gains, well, you'll be rolling a dice and hoping for it to come up with a 7!!!!!! :P :P :P

Plus it is within EPA noise regs which is something many places don't care about so no chance of getting defected which I'm sure we all agree is a GOOD THING!!!!

[hicam]

Ok guys, enough.

Rant "on"

To be brutally honest, I have never seen so much bull**** carry on in all my life.

Trevor isnt going to support his living by making pipes for corollas guys, he would make double or even triple the money on making a system for a Gen 3 commodore (of which there are plenty more wanting pipes than there is stivos).

Dyno sheets have been posted in the gallery here

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/gallery/au?page=63

Now, just to make sure everyone is clear.

1. If you think the exhaust is overpriced, DONT BUY IT. All the whinging and bitching in the world isnt going to make Trevor change the price.

2. The system has proven a gain of 9kw at the wheels (see dyno sheet in gallery), if you dont trust dynos, or you dont beleive this claim, DONT BUY IT.

3. If you dont like the method with which the exhaust has been constructed (ie. Mandrel Vs Pressed) DONT BUY IT.

It seems to me that we have a few people in here who consitently stir the pot for their own enjoyment. It wouldnt surprise me if these were also the members who are good at TALKING about modifying their cars, whilst the real enthusiasts are actually out there modifying. Guys, its simple, dont like it? DONT BUY IT.

Rant "off"

JC

JC Amen to that. Simple really.

[trd_141]

i only asked him 1 question and he did not want to answer it

was not very helpful

Bad form

[stoopid head]

YEAH...WELL IM DRINKING A BEER... SO THERE!!!!AND THE DIAMETER OF MY THROAT MATCHES THE LIQUID BEING POURED IN AS SUCH IM ON A WINNING THING HERE NO BLOCKAGE ANYWHERE JUST COOL REFRESHING BEER!!!

[-JC-]

i only asked him 1 question and he did not want to answer it

was not very helpful

Bad form

←

Perfectly understandable if you feel that way mate, we all like to be heard.

BUT, consider this, if everyone who expressed interest called Trevor with "one question" then he would spend all day on the phone, hence him being a tad frustrated. This is why we have been given a contact in the form of Brennden. Brennden was involved in the develepment of the system, and what he doesnt know about it, he can find out from CES and post here.

Just take it easy on the man guys, hes busy, and hes doing his best to make sure everyone can have some more power for their stivo.

Could I ask one of the mods to maybe do something with the old Zorst threads so that all the info is in one place, and that way might be easier to rat through.

Cheers

JC

[qkslvr]

nah its when you decrease the pressure you increase the velocity, like when you put your finger at the end of a hose, u create a restriction, but he same amount of water that enters the restriction must leave it, thus increasing its velocity.

for example and ill make it easy for u to understand.

The gas or water in this case has a given amount of energy (kinetic energy and static pressure). so we will just say 50 kinetic energey and 50 static energy entering the hose or exhuast pipe, when the water comes to the constriction (your finger) or when it comes to the bend in the pipe which is not as wide as the rest of the pipe, some of the water or gas pressure is sacrificed into kinetic energy. thus the total energy content remains unchanged. The water/gas velocity increases and its pressure decreases.

Thats why the water sprays out when u create a constriction.. moreover thats why the gas at the bend that is smaller in diameter increaes it veloicty.

←

but if you create a restriction, aren't you increasing the pressure within the hose? I agree with everything you are saying up until that part. I agree that the velocity will increase when there is a constriction. e.g spiting water out of a small straw as apposed to a larger straw. I'm thinking and now i'm confused. Hmm...actually, i think you may be right. Airfoils such as wings have the effect you describe where the extra curved upper surface causes the are flowing over the wing to flow faster than the air flowing under. this causes lift because of a decreased air pressure above the wing where the air is flowing faster. Hmm

The prolem is in the example above, the air is not constricted. hmm ;) I'll think about it and get back to you...hehehe expect a PM shortly. we'll continue this debate off forum. :P

[trd_141]

its not about being heard JC

just wanted to clarify some things before i fork out over $1000

but trevor was in poor form and refused to answer the question

[CHA54]

go to Gonzo's racing pipes, they'll copy it for half the price just like they did with CES's WRX system with twin dumps...

$1600 for ful 3" mandrel bent stainless with HPC coated twin dump including cat and all fittings.

[SILVABULLIT]

go to Gonzo's racing pipes, they'll copy it for half the price just like they did with CES's WRX system with twin dumps...

$1600 for ful 3" mandrel bent stainless with HPC coated twin dump including cat and all fittings.

←

hey rollamods

It's a shame that places like gonzo's don't have ethics. CES' WRX system with twin dump pipes is patented etc so copying it is I think ILLEGAL! As for gonzo's work hmmm I know of too many very unhappy customers of his who were promised the earth but got a sparkly shiny exhaust that didn't perform to the level of performance promised. You only have to compare workshops to see who really is the professional and who the "wanna be' really is. As for proven results why is it that CES export to USA constantly to supply WRX pipes? Don't see Gonzo doing that. Yeah he may be cheaper and it may kinda look the same but DOES it actually work!!! I know for a fact in seeing both parties workmanship that I would prefer CES over Gonzo's as CES have proven dyno results for systems(sportivo)

and if that's not worth paying a little more for than you may as well go and roll your hard earned $$$ and smoke it. At least that way you'll get some satisfaction out of it.(if wasting money is your thing then don't let me stop you :D )

[CHA54]

....hook, line and sinker ;)

hahahaha

Well my BPM exhaust (I'm sure Trevor has a lot of choice things to say about both BPM and Gonzo) has been great for the last 3 years, still good as day 1, and Gonzo's a great guy from my dealings with him, as quite a lot of other guys in Brisbane will also vouch for.

There's a ****load of "Gonzo" BPM exhausts being sold in the US constantly too, but I guess you already knew that. Some of the improved production guys might have something to say about the fanstastic quality of his work, which I rate it as top notch. You can check out the quality of my exhaust anytime, even though it's done 80,000km.

At the end of the day you dont have to pay top dollar to get the same item, just like the TRD (exedy HD) clutch.

Edited October 29, 2004 by rollamods

[-JC-]

its not about being heard JC

just wanted to clarify some things before i fork out over $1000

but trevor was in poor form and refused to answer the question

←

And what was the question?

[SILVABULLIT]

At the end of the day I'm not going to argue over who is better,cheaper does more whatever! But i will say this - I've put a lot of hard work and money into getting this exhaust system done and making it work. if you don't like the price then don't bloody buy it. SIMPLE. But by the same account if I find out that people are going to take my system to someone else to produce then I'm sorry to say that I will never ever offer my services to any person on this forum again.

As it is obvious that the biggest whingers are those who are so pro active (severe sarcasim) about helping Sportivo owners as a whole obtain products or equipment to make their cars performance better or cosmetically or whatever the thing may be. Imagine the performance gains to be made if some of you put your money where your mouth is... 300kw stivos!!! So if you are one of the people reading this and are offended then I'm talking to you. If you ain't got something better to offer then shut the hell up. I'm sick to death of the bitching, whinging and whining over prices, quality etc. If you think you can do a better job then get off your ***** and prove us all wrong. Till then stop having a go at those of us who are trying to offer something to benefit all concerned. After all I could have just kept this system to myself and let the rest of you spend a lot more than the asking price of this system on getting something to work. Sometimes I wonder why I go to the trouble to help people I don't even know...

SILVABULLIT

PS to those of you who have been supportive(you know who you are!) a big thanks and hope you enjoy the benefits gained with this exhaust system.

[Northy]

holy **** guys this is pathetic, im so glad at times like these that I have a 1zze. Its an exhaust, a bit of pipe and look at the **** storm its cause. Its been said time and time again if you have any questions CALL BRENDON and if you dont get the answer that you want then dont go and have a cry Trevor has put ALOT of work into this and you are surprised when he dont want to give you every little detail so that you can go and copy his hard work. Take a step back and then think about what you are doing, cause atm you are making people wonder why they even bothered to help the rest of the forum with an exhaust system that bolts and will give you gains.......

[E-Gene]

Alright guys, this is the bit where the moderator steps in to shut everyone up :P

No more post discussing whether the exhaust is too expensive, or whether Trevor is a nice guy or not, or on who is better than who. No name calling and no more "teach you a lesson" type messages.

Only post about the exhaust itself and questions about it will be allowed.

Thanks guys. :D

[imek]

Hello,

Can somebody please record a sound clip from outside and inside thru the rev band?

I'd also like to see another dyno. It's not that I don't believe the one which is posted, but this dyno really doesn't say anything. It just says "You got power gains", and what about torqe? Is it also higer, lower??? What was the exact setup of the car before and after the measurement?

The price is excellent, but if the product is to be treated professionally, it needs professional data that backs it up. Not just "DON'T BELIEVE --> DON'T BUY".

[ADR_rolla]

Can we please a dyno chart, with power and torque curves? and also no hand written values but actual compuater print outs.

cheers

Adrian

[Danthuyer]

be patient ;)

all will come in good time.

Dont forget guys about the CES Dyno day on the 20th November!!!!

[ADR_rolla]

anyone installed the exhaust system? and if so how does it feel?

[SILVABULLIT]

As I've said the system is great and if you want to know how it feels... then buy one! Or you could go and buy a length of stainless, a stainless muffler etc and rub your hands all over it! Feels so smooth,so glossy! :P :P :P

[SILVABULLIT]

By the way guys and gals production has begun on the system so if you want one then get your order in early or might have to wait till next year!!! Don't forget dyno day on the 20th. $25 for dyno run and show and shine is free. Trophies will be awarded for best interior,exterior,engine bay,underbody and car of the day. Guidelines have been set to allow a level playing field between a modified car and a standard car.PM me of your intent to come etc and remember you need enclosed footwear to enter the workshop.(go and buy some northy!).

Cheers SILVABULLIT