Poor little P platers

[Blade Hunter]

Well it looks like the new rules coming in for P platers with render our cars on the "not allowed" list. something like 95KW per tonne is the max.

What this DOES do for us is keep our insurance down because P platers throw insurance through the roof (im not saying they are bad drivers, im saying the insurance companies capatalise on youth drivers) :).

Note, I heard that the rule only applies if you get your license after a certain date so if you are on your P's now you will be exempt allowing you to keep your Sportivo :).

Basically all turbo's and hot hatches are going to be on the list of not allowed cars, most V8's will be on, pretty much all the exotics will be on and mods to your car will be limited (ie you can't go over that limit).

[E-Gene]

Where did you read this news from?

[Blade Hunter]

Where did you read this news from?

←

A different forum, its not confirmed yet but I usually get my news from these guys and its usually spot on :).

[MR22ZZ]

NSW have passed a ammendment not allowing P platers to drive any car with forced induction, or a V8 for the first 12 months of driving (not sure if this includes 'L' time as if it does it's a bid dodgey... As far as I know this is the only thing that is concerete and not speculation. In Vic they have a 120 kW/tonne limit I think.

[Blade Hunter]

NSW have passed a ammendment not allowing P platers to drive any car with forced induction, or a V8 for the first 12 months of driving (not sure if this includes 'L' time as if it does it's a bid dodgey... As far as I know this is the only thing that is concerete and not speculation. In Vic they have a 120 kW/tonne limit I think.

←

Vic is 95KW / Tonne I think.

[Blade Hunter]

Looks like its 125 (Taken from the vicroads.vic.gov.au site.)

Probationary driver licence holders must not drive high powered vehicles. A high powered vehicle is any vehicle with a power to weight ratio over 125 kw per tonne, or with an engine capacity to weight ratio over 3.5 litres per tonne.

Capacity to weight ratio is the capacity in litres divided by the weight in tonnes. Power to weight ratio is the power in kw divided by the weight in tonnes. In doing calculations, weight is specified in tonnes (1000kg = 1 tonne); capacity is specified in litres (1000ml = 1 litre); power is specified in kilowatts (kw) and is as measured at the engine flywheel.

The weight of a vehicle is the unladen mass specified by the manufacturer for the stock-standard vehicle (without options). Since 1988, this weight is specified on vehicle data sheets, as published by the Commonwealth Department of Transport and Regional Services. Vehicle manufacturers provide the information used to prepare the data sheets.

The file attached below contains a guide to vehicles that are classed as high powered motor vehicles. The Guide only covers standard vehicles that have been made in Australia, or imported in bulk, since 1970. It does not include all high powered motor vehicles. If you are concerned that a model not included may be a high powered motor vehicle, then you may be able to get engine power and vehicle weight information from the manufacturer.

If your car is modified, you may also need to obtain an engineer's certificate and do your own calculations. You are also required to notify VicRoads of any significant modification. Penalties for not doing so are severe.

If you are a probationary licence holder, it is your responsibility to make sure any vehicle that you drive is not a high powered motor vehicle. The penalties for driving a high powered motor vehicle include a heavy fine, and may result in licence suspension

[SILVABULLIT]

About time that this happened. Too many Kids with rich parents right themselves off in a car that they can't handle or couldn't afford if it wasn't for Daddy's fat cheque book. I have a brother in law who's a copper and he's always telling me about an accident he's attended where some 17/18 year old kid has wrapped a V8 Commodore around a pole and killed themselves or one of their mates. It's about time the Gov't put their foot down and got serious with this issue. The amount of cheap high performance imports flooding the market these days make it so easy to obtain a weapon from Japan that's already bombed to the hilt.

I agree with an article that was in the paper some time ago stating that new license holders cannot own a high performance car for the 1st 12 months of their license and then can only do so after they do an advanced driver safety course and learn not how to drive but learn car craft and control and what to do in any situation. It makes common sense to me but the Gov't doesn't want the Motor companies off side as it would hurt their sales and consequently the all important trade dollar. But what price do you put on a human life? MMM...

PS. I learnt to drive at the age of 6 in a big open paddock and have been taught car control not just on the dirt but on a race track as well(Sprints etc) but I would still go and do an advanced driver safety course just to brush up on my driving skills. You never know when you are going to need them!

[Blade Hunter]

I must say, people nowadays complain that this law is going to be introduced and that its not fair because us "older" drivers never had that restriction but we did, cars with this much power did not exist in our price bracket at that age, that was in itself a restriction, now that power is cheap, they have to do something for the protection of our youth. I know that makes me sound grumpy and old but its honestly how I see it, power is simply too cheap these days making it very accesible to people with less experience than what that vehicle requires.

[E-Gene]

I guess I would be complaining if I was a P-Plater which I'm not so I guess I'm not complaining about it. Unfortunately some irresponsible drivers spoiled it for others and now the govt has to react by putting a "rule" in.

Seriously, that s**ks in my opinion. Think about it, if this is the trend, soon we'll all be driving at 20km/h on the freeways. It's all too reactive if you ask me. Not that I do not treasure life or that I love to speed, but it's the whole thing about reacting and setting a new rule everytime something happens.

Just some early morning opinions. :P

[eggbert_99]

Hello,

I am a new corolla owner .. and have just found your club which is great by the way .. but i though i might add my 2 cents ..

I dont know if i agree that power limiting solves the problem .. but something needs to be done.

What is it i dont know .. driver education?? at schools ?? maybe ??(If i did know , I'd be a politician HA)

I dont really care if a minority of P platers want to speed and kill themselves .. BUT !!! unfortunately they also affect and can kill the other people on the road.

Unfortunately I've experienced this in the first hand .. with a speeding P plater..

I think the rules and laws that are decided on are there more so to protect the general public rather than the P platers themselves.

And no matter what decision is made there is always going to be a part of the community that wont like it. And frankly I dont care coz if its going to protect my family and kids from foolish p platers then its a good decision. !

[Blade Hunter]

I honestly think its a good idea. I mean hey..... It works for motorbikes :).

I just heard on the news they are thinking of scaling fines so a student / low income earner will pay next to nothing for speeding but a high income earner will pay $350 for a fine that used to be $125.

Now im outraged at this. Why I hear you ask???

Simple. The government keeps going on and on about how P platers and your drivers are dangerous and everything well how about his:

The majority of younger drivers are (shock horrer) low income earners or students. The government is basically saying to them. Its ok Buddy, be as stupid as you like and it will cost you next to nothing, we will slug some older person later to finance your bad behaviour. Now in this im not condoning bad behaviour in any age bracket or income level BUT if the younger / lower income earners pay only 20% of what we do and they go out there and run a kid over through dangerous driving, here is the question. Is the kid only 20% dead because of the drivers earning capacity?? Driving is a priveladge not a right. If you can't afford the fines its really quite simple..... Don't incur any.

They are talking of all fines being on a scale INCLUDING parking fines. Now for a low income earner, breaching a parking rule in the city is going to work out cheaper than parking in a parking station.

What a badley thought out plan. Apparently it works well in other countries. How so?? how can you measure this?? I mean seriously are low income earners and students going to say "Hmmmm, best slow down cos the fines have been reduced for me"

I think not.

/end rant :D

[E-Gene]

Man, I could so see this scaling fine thing being abused.

[Blade Hunter]

Thats the point im making man it sucks. I mean seriously a parking fine could end up costing me like $300 yet a student would pay like $30 you can't park in a parking station in Sydney for that (unless you get early bird)

[MR22ZZ]

My feeling on the scaling is, if you can afford to speed you can afford the penalty... I know from my own experience and being almost $600 lighter in the hip pocket I have learnt my lesson and being much more cautious in the future, not that I spead much in the past anyway, I just missed seeing a speed sign because of the truck I was looking out for...

But anyway back on the topic of better 'P' platers, I agree that it really comes down to education and attitude. I think a proper log booking system (where you have to clock hours with a trained instructor not just your parents, a system that is in South Aus) gives you a chance to train bad habits out of your driving technique. Advanced driver training and Defensive driving should also be rewarded by savings on rego, CTP, or insurance (or even all 3) and should be recorded by the RTA and noted on your license.

[Blade Hunter]

Advanced driver training and Defensive driving should also be rewarded by savings on rego, CTP, or insurance (or even all 3) and should be recorded by the RTA and noted on your license.

←

Dude, thats a fantastic idea. I reckon that would have a brilliant impact.

[MR22ZZ]

Advanced driver training and Defensive driving should also be rewarded by savings on rego, CTP, or insurance (or even all 3) and should be recorded by the RTA and noted on your license.

←

Dude, thats a fantastic idea. I reckon that would have a brilliant impact.

←

a bit, well a hell of a lot off topic...

That was your 400th post Blade!!!!!! Nice work!!!!!! :P :P

[Blade Hunter]

Advanced driver training and Defensive driving should also be rewarded by savings on rego, CTP, or insurance (or even all 3) and should be recorded by the RTA and noted on your license.

←

Dude, thats a fantastic idea. I reckon that would have a brilliant impact.

←

a bit, well a hell of a lot off topic...

That was your 400th post Blade!!!!!! Nice work!!!!!! :P :P

←

Hahaha I didnt even notice :). Fitting that a milestone number is me having yet another rant :P.

[Donza]

I honestly think its a good idea. I mean hey..... It works for motorbikes :).

←

Exactly. Being an ex victorian (now nsw) I was surprised in the differences in laws for what you can and cannot drive, earlier commencement date 17 instead of 18 in vic, and little things like that. Also think the limits are stupid on your p's, if someone is doing say 90 on the freeway, that's more dangerous almost than someone doing over 120... oh and even more annoying being stuck behind them... ;)

[03MikeSportivo]

Well it looks like the new rules coming in for P platers with render our cars on the "not allowed" list. something like 95KW per tonne is the max.

What this DOES do for us is keep our insurance down because P platers throw insurance through the roof (im not saying they are bad drivers, im saying the insurance companies capatalise on youth drivers) :).

Note, I heard that the rule only applies if you get your license after a certain date so if you are on your P's now you will be exempt allowing you to keep your Sportivo :).

Basically all turbo's and hot hatches are going to be on the list of not allowed cars, most V8's will be on, pretty much all the exotics will be on and mods to your car will be limited (ie you can't go over that limit).

←

so it does appear ill be trading up my sportivo soon...

thats gay.

[Blade Hunter]

Well it looks like the new rules coming in for P platers with render our cars on the "not allowed" list. something like 95KW per tonne is the max.

What this DOES do for us is keep our insurance down because P platers throw insurance through the roof (im not saying they are bad drivers, im saying the insurance companies capatalise on youth drivers) :).

Note, I heard that the rule only applies if you get your license after a certain date so if you are on your P's now you will be exempt allowing you to keep your Sportivo :).

Basically all turbo's and hot hatches are going to be on the list of not allowed cars, most V8's will be on, pretty much all the exotics will be on and mods to your car will be limited (ie you can't go over that limit).

←

so it does appear ill be trading up my sportivo soon...

thats gay.

←

If you are already on your P's it will not apply to you. It will be for people who get their P's AFTER the new rules :).

Your safe :).

Blade

[Popeye]

I honestly think its a good idea. I mean hey..... It works for motorbikes :).

I just heard on the news they are thinking of scaling fines so a student / low income earner will pay next to nothing for speeding but a high income earner will pay $350 for a fine that used to be $125.

←

I've heard of this happening in other countries, great in theory, but it is open for rorting if the correct background work is not done.

For example, you are a wealthy person with a family. Your kid goes to uni. You park longer or get caught speeding (via camera, not pulled over) instead of paying the new "high income earner" fine, you claim your kid (Poor uni student) had borrowed the car for the weekend. Now you are only subject to a fine that's half the price or whatever.

So I'm not sure how they are going to police this new rule. I think it can only work if you actually get pulled over while you are In the car at the time of the offense?

Back on topic, I have to agree with SILVABULLIT. I used to home deliver chinese food as a previous job to get pass uni and so many times when it has been raining, I have seen plenty of P Platers smashing into Telegraph posts or roundabouts. In 3 hours on a Friday nite once, I remember driving past 4 accidents, all involving P Platers and usually in some Commodore/Falcon or fairly well powered car (all standing outside their car thinking, "dad's gonna kill me").

Please do not get me wrong, not all P Platers are idiots, the majority are not. But it's those idiots that give all P Platers a bad name. I just think that until P Platers learn how to drive and drive well, especially in the wet, they shouldn't be allowed behind the wheels of such powerful cars.

[qkslvr]

I disagree dudes. I do realise speeding is a problem but having just arriving back from Thailand (no. I wasn't caught in the tsunami) I realise that having too many restrictions, regulations and stuff of the sort make everyone uptight and doesn't really solve anything.

I guarantee you that after this rule is enforced you will see a decrease in road accidents from P platers and an increase in road accidents by slightly older, full licence holders...it's just shifting the problem to another demographic.

if you drive in Vic, QLD, WA, SA, NT, TAS, Laos and Even Thailand...you will realise that Sydney drivers are amogst the most uptight, rude and arrogant road users in the world (i've been in sydney all my life btw :) )

This new rule is really a question of civil liberties vs political correctness. what we need to do is educate young drivers and teach some self control. Imposing such strict rules does not teach any of this. Contrary to what some may think, driving IS a right, not a privilidge. We have the right to drive whatever car we want. We don't have the right to drive dangerously but the right to drive whatever car is available should be a free choice. I've been driving for 6years so i've seen all sorts of horrific accidents but there has to be a balance. If the driver feels confident he can handle a twin turbo Supra with Dual stage boost controller, front mount intercooler and a turbo upgrade, then he should have the right to purchase one. allbeit a stupid choice for a P plater, but a free choise nonetheless.

Education is the way to change society. Brute force by the judicial system does nothing for society. Look at the recent "drink driving" ad campaign, that is the right way to go. look at the "click-clack front and back" compaing for seat belts almost 10years ago. that worked. we need a balance between education and law enforcement to solve this problem...not just strict regulations.

If you ever go to a country with cr@ppy roads and no speed limits you will understand where i am coming from.

that's my rant for today. oh...i know it's abit late but Happy New Year to everyone!

[Blade Hunter]

While we are on it, lets teach the little buggers some courtasy too :P.

Indicate BEFORE a lane change ie dont start merging then either flick the switch quickly or not at all.

Wave a thankyou when someone lets you in front of them

don't use your horn if someone does something stupid, your only going to stress them and increase the chance of them making a bigger mistake

Dont stick your finger up at other drivers

Dont get pooey and rev your car if someone is not going fast enough for you

The best thing to learn as a driver is just chill out, calm down, take it easy.

:)

[MR22ZZ]

hehehehe

soooo many troubles in the would could be solved if people just learned how to courtesy wave!!!! It always give me a warm feeling when I either give or see one in return, and you always finish the drive with a smile on your face!!!! :D

oh and while you point out idicators to change lanes, you forgot indicating before you go around a corner and not 'at the corner or round about' (or once the light goes green and you finally decide to let the 20 cars behind you know that you are actually turning!!!!). Indicator etiquite is my single worst pet hate, as I cyclist I like to know what the cars around me are doing and the number of people who sho no consideration to those around them by letting them know their intentions is rediculous!!!!

Oh well, got that off my chest... back to sleep now :P

Edited January 19, 2005 by Blue_Stivo

[oz_viking]

Advanced driver training and Defensive driving should also be rewarded by savings on rego, CTP, or insurance (or even all 3) and should be recorded by the RTA and noted on your license.

←

Sort of the reverse operates in some countries, like the US.

I lived in New York for 3 years, and the motor registration dept. has a computerised system linked to an insurance database that ALL insurance companies can access.

What this means is that any "moving violation" (e.g. speeding, running a red light, drink driving etc.) results in an entry in the insurance database. Then what happens is, in addition to any fines or demerit points on your license, you IMMEDIATELY begin paying more for your insurance.

The logic is that people who commit traffic offences are at greater risk of having more accidents etc and should pay more for insurance. It is a true "user pays" system.

What I would like to see in Australia is not just limits and curfews for P Platers as an incentive not to break the road traffic rules, but also a reward of sorts in terms of lower rego or insurance costs for those who do obey the rules or who seek out advanced training.

Then you have not just a carrot, or a stick, but both. And surely then most who are tempted to consistently speed or otherwise break the rules will learn that it is a costly behaviour?