Formula 1 Chat

[SuperDave]

Since the old F1 news thread ws broken I've decided to create a new one (plus I was too lazy to find it).

So the latest and greatest news is that Schui is making his comeback to Ferrari to replace Massa for a couple of races. And, that BMW are pulling out of F1 at the end of the year.

And everyone thought it was going to be Toyota leaving. Wonder if Peter Sauber has an option to buy the team back from his original sale in 2006.

[DHC09]

Can't wait to see how the Stig matches up with the current F1 line up esp Raikkonen (in the same car, 07 Champ), Vettel (dubbed the next Schui), and Hamilton (defending Champion). And he couldn't have found a better time to return too... just when the car is competitive again.

We all know BMW and Honda are soft :P

Honda should buy the exBMW team for cheap, and leave again before releasing a championship winning car

Edited July 30, 2009 by DHC09

[SuperDave]

Seems Schui is causing more drama again.

Regarding Ferrari wanting to allow Schui to do 1 day of familiarisation in the F60. All the current teams except two have agreed to Ferrari's request; Williams and Red Bull denying the request. Regardless if the teams allowed it the FIA would still need to approve it.

"In a similar situation, Williams would unhesitatingly use its current test driver," the team principal told the the Williams website.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/08/03/...r-ferrari-test/

And from Redbull.

"We requested (permission from) the other Formula One teams to put Jaime Alguersuari in our car for a day to get himself prepared for the Hungarian Grand Prix, but it got rejected so why should we make an exception for the seven-time world Champion?" Mateschitz pondered

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/08/04/...rari-sentiments

And the (childish) reply from Ferrari

Guess who opposed the test with the F60? A team that hasn't won anything for years and yet didn't pass over the opportunity to demonstrate once more a lack of spirit of fair play.

Just for the record, the Scuderia Ferrari had given its approval to let Alguersuari test, but it seems even in this instance someone decided to stick to the precise wording of the regulations.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/08/04/...slams-williams/

I'm of the opinion that he can test in the Friday free practice like everyone else. Ferrari have enough data of Schumacher from all his years of driving to get a rough setup. And even then there was enough over lap with Massa to be able to baseline data to the current car anyway.

[DHC09]

Williams is just bitter cause they are not in the FOTA anymore :P

And Redbull doesn't want Schumi taking points away from them, since they are champion contenders now. But its a b!tch move IMO since Ferrari OK'd for Alguersuari to test.

[thegourou20]

I believe at the end of the day F1 is still a competition...feelings are put aside. :-D You would not want to race Schumi because he got balls unlike kimi :) lol

[SuperDave]

Even if Schumacher doesn't live up to expectations, the data he will give Ferrari will be worth a lot ;)

[¥uri]

i believe its great the F1 meister slash one time stig is coming back to race, albeit under different circumstances.......hope Felipe a speedy recovery but

IMO the sport has gone downhill ever since Schumi left ..... yeah it was boring when he was winning all the time, but who really was exited when Alonso or Kimi were winning, huh?

just nice to finally have a good story come out of Formula1 other than talks of in-fighting and threats of breakaway comps etc

oh and i hope Alonso doesn't join Scuderia too.....rather they attempt to prize Hamilton instead (some coup that would be)

could you imagine Nicole Scherzinger dressed in Ferrari goodies

[SuperDave]

oh and i hope Alonso doesn't join Scuderia too.....rather they attempt to prize Hamilton instead (some coup that would be)

could you imagine Nicole Scherzinger dressed in Ferrari goodies

McLaren would have to do something pretty major to ***** Lewis off. He is very loyal as they did pay for all his development in lower series, which in motorsports is worth more than anyone ever imagines. I rank Alonso as a better driver than Hamilton, but thats all meaningless as I'd rather see Webber as world champ (I don't care what car) :D

[DHC09]

You would not want to race Schumi because he got balls unlike kimi :) lol

Kimi doesn't have balls?! The guy is racing in WRC.... having balls is a prerequisite. In fact, i think i could probably recall more ballsy overtaking moves from Kimi than Schumi.

i believe its great the F1 meister slash one time stig is coming back to race, albeit under different circumstances.......hope Felipe a speedy recovery but

IMO the sport has gone downhill ever since Schumi left ..... yeah it was boring when he was winning all the time, but who really was exited when Alonso or Kimi were winning, huh?

just nice to finally have a good story come out of Formula1 other than talks of in-fighting and threats of breakaway comps etc

oh and i hope Alonso doesn't join Scuderia too.....rather they attempt to prize Hamilton instead (some coup that would be)

could you imagine Nicole Scherzinger dressed in Ferrari goodies

How can you say the sport has gone downhill after Schumi left? The past two championships has been won by a margin of a single point, and determined at the very last race (as apposed to Schumi winning the title at mid-season). In fact, having unpredictable winners for each race has been very exciting, be it Alonso, Kimi, Lewis, Vettel, Button, Massa and now Webber! Whats not to be excited about :P

There are many new talents in the grid whom are dubbed the "next big thing". The exciting part now is that the "original big thing" is back, and will be fascinating to see how they measure up. But, I do agree with some of the rumors on the paddock: if Schumi is competitive and spanks them all, he will be back full time next season (most likely to replace the WRC-bound Kimi :(), cause the only reason he left was because he believed he has passed his prime, and lost to Alonso.

Speaking of Alonso, F1 needs him to be in a good car. Alonso in a Ferrari VS Lewis in the McLaren would be a better "show".

Edited August 6, 2009 by DHC09

[thegourou20]

Kimi doesn't have balls?! The guy is racing in WRC.... having balls is a prerequisite. In fact, i think i could probably recall more ballsy overtaking moves from Kimi than Schumi.

Like? Kimmy has never ever overtaken someone unless his car is super quick! :) That's a fact. Also, that's the reason why I prefer Massa to Kimmy. Massa definitely does not have the consistency of Kimmy but man he tries harder that guy! He has evolved a lot from his erratic performances he used to have with his previous team. Whereas Kimmy if you think about it has not brought much if any to Ferrari.

I think there is a very competitive group of drivers at the moment and very hard to pick who has better skills than the other. However, from what I have seen so far I would say Hamilton definitely has an edge in terms to exploiting the car to the max. I cannot remember which GP it was where he did not have the best car and started at the back of the grid. Man he made so many places and it was so good to watch. :)

[¥uri]

a little background to my post: i grew up watching F1 during high school, meaning that i got to watch most races live....nowadays the excitement factor has waned somewhat for me as i don't want watch many races anymore, just video highlights really, or the odd replays here and there.... But i do agree with you, recent and current championships have been unpredictable, which can be both bad and good.... I'm a Ferrari fan tho, so my thoughts may offend some people :D

...also, just a quick question regarding the wheels that they currently use.... why are they designed like that? to reduce brake heat or cost cutting purposes simple design ?

I'll try to find and upload a photo of what i mean.... usually find them on the front wheels

edit: photo uploaded

other:

http://www.f1-site.com/wallpapers/2009/pre...-car-2009-2.jpg

http://www.drivearabia.com/news/wp-content...4/brawn-gp1.jpg

[DHC09]

Kimi doesn't have balls?! The guy is racing in WRC.... having balls is a prerequisite. In fact, i think i could probably recall more ballsy overtaking moves from Kimi than Schumi.

Like? Kimmy has never ever overtaken someone unless his car is super quick! :) That's a fact. Also, that's the reason why I prefer Massa to Kimmy. Massa definitely does not have the consistency of Kimmy but man he tries harder that guy! He has evolved a lot from his erratic performances he used to have with his previous team. Whereas Kimmy if you think about it has not brought much if any to Ferrari.

But isnt that the case with motorsports? Your only as good as your machine. And he did win the championship on this first season with Ferrari. I dont think there were too many Ferrari drivers in the past that has archieved that. For me, theres nothing special about Massa. Anyway, just like cars, everyone has their picks.

For a lot of people, this is one of the best F1 races. Even the old timers who only think the "old"races were the best, loved this one

Please wait a few seconds for Video to Load!

[DHC09]

...also, just a quick question regarding the wheels that they currently use.... why are they designed like that? to reduce brake heat or cost cutting purposes simple design ?

I'll try to find and upload a photo of what i mean.... usually find them on the front wheels

They are aero components for brake cooling. But I have also read that some also play a role to help warm the tyres (via heating the rim), as well as cooling the brakes at the same time. Thats F1 tech for ya

[thegourou20]

I am not saying Massa is great or is very good but what I am trying to say is that he is improving as a driver and he got merits for that. If you have a look at this season reason, i think you might be able to see where I am coming from:

Australia: Kimi: 15th Massa: Retired (Suspension)

Malaysia: Kimi: 14th Massa:9th

China: Kimi:10th Massa: Retired (Electrical)

Bahrain: Kimi:6th Massa: 14th

Spain: Kimi: Retired (Hydraulics) Massa:6th

Monaco: Kimi:3rd Massa: 4th

Turkey: Kimi:9th Massa:6th

Great Britain: Kimi:8th Massa: 4th

Germany: Kimi: Retired (Radiator Damage) Massa: 3rd

Hungary: Kimi: 2nd Massa: -

Also, 2008 Drivers Championship: Massa:2nd(95pts) Kimi:3rd (75pts)...geezzz quite a big gap there for someone who is supposed to be that good. ;-)

But I guess you are a Kimi supporter so it is hard to change your opinion about him. :-P

Anyways, it is good to see your point of view... :)

[Hiro]

I am not saying Massa is great or is very good but what I am trying to say is that he is improving as a driver and he got merits for that. If you have a look at this season reason, i think you might be able to see where I am coming from:

Australia: Kimi: 15th Massa: Retired (Suspension)

Malaysia: Kimi: 14th Massa:9th

China: Kimi:10th Massa: Retired (Electrical)

Bahrain: Kimi:6th Massa: 14th

Spain: Kimi: Retired (Hydraulics) Massa:6th

Monaco: Kimi:3rd Massa: 4th

Turkey: Kimi:9th Massa:6th

Great Britain: Kimi:8th Massa: 4th

Germany: Kimi: Retired (Radiator Damage) Massa: 3rd

Hungary: Kimi: 2nd Massa: -

Also, 2008 Drivers Championship: Massa:2nd(95pts) Kimi:3rd (75pts)...geezzz quite a big gap there for someone who is supposed to be that good. ;-)

But I guess you are a Kimi supporter so it is hard to change your opinion about him. :-P

Anyways, it is good to see your point of view... :)

This season's results are basically useless due to the Ferrari car being crap for the first half of the season - note 3 retirements not due to driver error, which is very uncharacteristic for Ferrari. If you look at the results where both cars have had decent finishes, both drivers have been fairly equal. And saying that someone who comes third in the championship behind the uber-kid and your own team-mate in a team as competitive as Ferrari (we're not talking the old 1-2 days of M. Schumacher and whoever was in the other seat, who would be told to get out of the way if necessary) is hardly a insult - look at the points breakdown: 1st - 10, 2nd - 8, 3rd - 6, 4th - 5, 5th - 4, 6th - 3, 7th - 2, 8th - 1. So there is automatically a 20% difference in points if you always come second, which is no mean feat in itself, and then a 25% difference on top of that if you come third, so you can be a consistant podium performer but all it takes is a win or two and your points increase a lot.

[SuperDave]

I think the dumbest thing the FIA did this year occurred last year by not closing the double diffuser loop hole. From what Ferrari and McLaren were saying (if it is to be believed) was that the double diffuser reduces the overtaking opportunities. Which as many know was what the FIA was trying to achieve this year. By not closing the loop hole that Brawn bought up last season they shot themselves in the foot. Who knows, without double diffusers the KERSystem might have actually looked useful and might have been retained. I think it should be stuck with myself, but have more limitations on the engines and less limitations on the KERS. But the KERS rules were rushed and the biggest oversight was the weight issue.

[thegourou20]

I think the dumbest thing the FIA did this year occurred last year by not closing the double diffuser loop hole. From what Ferrari and McLaren were saying (if it is to be believed) was that the double diffuser reduces the overtaking opportunities. Which as many know was what the FIA was trying to achieve this year. By not closing the loop hole that Brawn bought up last season they shot themselves in the foot. Who knows, without double diffusers the KERSystem might have actually looked useful and might have been retained. I think it should be stuck with myself, but have more limitations on the engines and less limitations on the KERS. But the KERS rules were rushed and the biggest oversight was the weight issue.

I agree with you 100%. All this kinda created a big confusion among different teams and kinda messed up the R&D of all of them not running them because they thought it was against the rules. I believe the team who got shafted the most is BMW out of the whole situation :-/

[¥uri]

that's the thing that puzzles me this year.... my understanding of that is;

Brawn GP found a loop hole to that diffuser ruling earlier in the season, disadvantaging the other teams who supposedly followed the rules

atleast in recent rounds, most teams have caught up and the races have been much closer

just a shame all teams didn't start the season on an even playing field <_<

[Hiro]

that's the thing that puzzles me this year.... my understanding of that is;

Brawn GP found a loop hole to that diffuser ruling earlier in the season, disadvantaging the other teams who supposedly followed the rules

atleast in recent rounds, most teams have caught up and the races have been much closer

just a shame all teams didn't start the season on an even playing field <_<

Did Brawn design the diffuser or was it Honda (since the BGP-001 is essentially Honda's stillborn '09 car). Plus Williams and Toyota also had double diffusers from the very beginning of the season, so it's not clear who really had it first anyway

[SuperDave]

Rumour doing the rounds was that Super Aguri thought of it. So when they were closed down their employees went off to Toyota, Honda (Brawn), Force India and maybe one or two more. Pretty much any team that started the season with the double diffuser hired ex Super Aguri employees. Brawn did better as most (and better I assume) SA employees went there.

[DHC09]

Also, 2008 Drivers Championship: Massa:2nd(95pts) Kimi:3rd (75pts)...geezzz quite a big gap there for someone who is supposed to be that good. ;-)

Thats because Ferrari plays favourites ;)

--

With the diffuser issue, Ross Brawn wanted to clear up the diffuser rules approx a year before the start of the 2009 season. The other teams just fobbed him off for what ever reason, and only got worried when the Brawn finally did some winter testing. So in that regard, I have no sympathy of those teams that didnt use the "loophole" or at least tested it out. Obivously the cars with the double diffuser had much better downforce = performance, but whether it was better for the "show" is another matter.

The only reason why it was a "loophole" was because only 3 teams had them. If 7 teams used them (esp Ferrari and McLaren), the other 3 would be seen as people that can't read the rules properly

[DHC09]

Schumacher cancels return :( :( :(

[thegourou20]

:( well at least he tried his best but still i am so sad because i was so looking forward to nxt GP. :(

[SuperDave]

Good publicity and a distraction from the FOTA-FIA battle while it lasted. Plus the Valencia organisers will be leased with the ticket sales going up.

[SuperDave]

Regarding Nelshino Piquets sacking from Renault: Its got me stuffed how Briatore can be Piquet's manager, but as a team boss stand there and say he is *****. When his job as a manager is to find him another job...