Fuel question

[Snesi_SU]

Hi guys,

A fuel question here..

I'm about to do some performance mods; just the basic.

Intake, Headers and Exhaust.

Now it's a fact that back here in Suriname, our fuel contains only 86 octane.

Been told by some people back here that the mods i want to do, are not gonna have much affect, cause the fuel is not very good.

The advice that they give, is that i need to somehow manage the fuel in order to let the engine get more fuel.

more fuel will compensate the 'gap' of missing octane.

If i don't get to manage the fuel, then it will be a waist of money for all these mods..!

is that true??

and also if i don't manage the fuel, the car will run poor.

Is that true??

Please advice..

Will i have less power gains with the I/H/E mods, looking at the fuel type whe have here?

[and1]

Can't you get higher octane fuels at all?

[1stKill]

Get yourself a 5lt 104 Octane booster or similar and add the required dose on every fill...this should help boost your low RON fuel by 3-4 points.

86 octane is fairly low,you sure you can't buy better?...i would at the very least want 91 RON or 95,but here in OZ 98 is readily available at most servos in populated areas.

good luck mate,crappy fuel can cost performance.

[Snesi_SU]

Can't you get higher octane fuels at all?

Nope..

really really sad about that.

I didn't know our fuel sucked that much, until i began looking at the upgrades i want to do.

[Kojak-123R]

yeah some octane booster would help, wow i hope i don't run out of fuel in Suriname

[SuperDave]

The octane rating is basically the fuels ability to prevent pre-ignition or knock. The lower the number the more likely it is to occur. The stock ECU will see high knock values and retard timing to protect the engine. If you get any aftermarket ECU the tuner can tune the car while keeping an eye on the knock; and depending on how much risk you want to take they can leave you with a low knock or high knock map. High knock can damage pistons. However if you just add more fuel you can run way too rich and risk washing the bores, thinning the oil, killing catalytic converters very quickly, spark plugs fouling, and so on.

If you do buy an after market ECU it might be worth buying a smart one that has some form of protection for the engine if knock becomes too high; saves having to visually monitor something like the PowerFC for high knock.

[Snesi_SU]

ok..

but the main question is still unanswered.

How much of a disadvantage or influence will the fuel have, looking at the performance.

Lets say that you make this comparison:

• the power gains after I/H/E mods with a good fuel (octane 91) and
• the power gains after I/H/E mods with a poor fuel (octane 86) and
• both of these fuels compared against stock (no performance mods)

If give a rating from 1 to 10, how will you rate this?

[kahle81]

Is 86 the Research Octane Number or the Motor Octane Number (American) because they are different. A MON of 86 correcsponds roughly to a RON of 95. I doubt anyone produces a petrol with a RON of 86. The octane numbers are a rough guide to the quality of the fuel, differing in the method of testing.

[Snesi_SU]

Is 86 the Research Octane Number or the Motor Octane Number (American) because they are different. A MON of 86 correcsponds roughly to a RON of 95. I doubt anyone produces a petrol with a RON of 86. The octane numbers are a rough guide to the quality of the fuel, differing in the method of testing.

hmm.. that's intresting.

I will do a little 'research' back here and ask if it is te Research Octane Number or the Motor Octane Number

[xoom]

The octane rating is basically the fuels ability to prevent pre-ignition or knock. The lower the number the more likely it is to occur. The stock ECU will see high knock values and retard timing to protect the engine. If you get any aftermarket ECU the tuner can tune the car while keeping an eye on the knock; and depending on how much risk you want to take they can leave you with a low knock or high knock map. High knock can damage pistons. However if you just add more fuel you can run way too rich and risk washing the bores, thinning the oil, killing catalytic converters very quickly, spark plugs fouling, and so on.

If you do buy an after market ECU it might be worth buying a smart one that has some form of protection for the engine if knock becomes too high; saves having to visually monitor something like the PowerFC for high knock.

he could just add a safe guard setup to the PFC

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/

[SuperDave]

he could just add a safe guard setup to the PFC

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/

Or use Copilot with the Datalogit instead of the FC-Edit software.

[Snesi_SU]

The octane rating is basically the fuels ability to prevent pre-ignition or knock. The lower the number the more likely it is to occur. The stock ECU will see high knock values and retard timing to protect the engine. If you get any aftermarket ECU the tuner can tune the car while keeping an eye on the knock; and depending on how much risk you want to take they can leave you with a low knock or high knock map. High knock can damage pistons. However if you just add more fuel you can run way too rich and risk washing the bores, thinning the oil, killing catalytic converters very quickly, spark plugs fouling, and so on.

If you do buy an after market ECU it might be worth buying a smart one that has some form of protection for the engine if knock becomes too high; saves having to visually monitor something like the PowerFC for high knock.

he could just add a safe guard setup to the PFC

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/

he could just add a safe guard setup to the PFC

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/

Or use Copilot with the Datalogit instead of the FC-Edit software.

don't even know nor do i understand what these things are..

but okay, most important thing for me to know is,

is the 86 RON gonna be harmful to the engine after these I/H/E mods? (if i just leave the stock ECU and add no other device)

[DreadAngel]

I don't think anything <90RON existed...

[SuperDave]

don't even know nor do i understand what these things are..

but okay, most important thing for me to know is,

is the 86 RON gonna be harmful to the engine after these I/H/E mods? (if i just leave the stock ECU and add no other device)

Copilot is a software program for the PowerFC which allows auto tuning, and thus the ability to back off the timing if it detects too much knock. The other unit Xoom posted looks to be a piggyback, I haven't looked into it so won't be able to explain it.

The mods will be no more harmful for your engine then it currently is. Depends on what your AFR is after bolting them on.

[Hiro]

Is 86 the Research Octane Number or the Motor Octane Number (American) because they are different. A MON of 86 correcsponds roughly to a RON of 95. I doubt anyone produces a petrol with a RON of 86. The octane numbers are a rough guide to the quality of the fuel, differing in the method of testing.

^ This.

The US actually use AKI (Anti Knock Index), which is the average of MON and RON (sometimes displayed as (R+M)/2). Their "regular" is 87 AKI which is equivalent to our 91 RON, their "premium" is 93 AKI which is equivalent to our 98 RON.

[dyslexik]

In South Africa, RON is the measurement used for engine knocking resistance in the fuel. USA on the other hand, uses MON and AKI, which is normally 4-5 units lower than RON.

[Snesi_SU]

I asked Sol Suriname here for some information about our fuel.

They say (and i saw the documentation) that the fuel is 95 RON.

So if you know read the post i started this thread with, than i don't have any problems at all right?

I will install headers, intake an exhaust; not in the planning to do anymore mods after this.

one thing is still a bit unclear for me.

If i do the mods (I/H/E) will the ECU automatically adjust to the right air/fuel mixture?

After these upgrades, what kind of improvement can i expect??

[xoom]

I asked Sol Suriname here for some information about our fuel.

They say (and i saw the documentation) that the fuel is 95 RON.

So if you know read the post i started this thread with, than i don't have any problems at all right?

Given that ur running ur car and using the fuel already i'd say that the tune of ur factory ecu is already setup to deal with what is locally available as fuel for ur country.

I will install headers, intake an exhaust; not in the planning to do anymore mods after this.

one thing is still a bit unclear for me.

If i do the mods (I/H/E) will the ECU automatically adjust to the right air/fuel mixture?

if u do an ecu reset generally speaking it will adjust itself to what its seeing off the various sensors on ur car .... this adjustment however will be marginal as the ecu is generally limited in how much adjustment it can make as the expecation from car manufactorers is to allow a little variation but not too much .... dont forget the stock ecu is not expecting to be running anything above and beyond being stock ...... will it be the right fuel mixture .... i probably assume it wont be as u generally find car makers stick to the safe side and run stock setups a little richer than required ..... only way to get the "right" fuel mixture as u put it is to get an aftermarket ecu and get a tuner to tune it to match ur mods.

After these upgrades, what kind of improvement can i expect??

i would say in terms of peak power u will see a gain of 5%-10% ..... which isnt huge but should hopefully be marginally noticeable ..... where u should notice the difference though is lower in the rev range where the car should be more driveable and not as sluggish building the revs ...... as long as ofcourse u dont go too big on the intake and not too big on the exhaust because if u do u will simply kill any performance gains.

[Snesi_SU]

I asked Sol Suriname here for some information about our fuel.

They say (and i saw the documentation) that the fuel is 95 RON.

So if you know read the post i started this thread with, than i don't have any problems at all right?

Given that ur running ur car and using the fuel already i'd say that the tune of ur factory ecu is already setup to deal with what is locally available as fuel for ur country.

I will install headers, intake an exhaust; not in the planning to do anymore mods after this.

one thing is still a bit unclear for me.

If i do the mods (I/H/E) will the ECU automatically adjust to the right air/fuel mixture?

if u do an ecu reset generally speaking it will adjust itself to what its seeing off the various sensors on ur car .... this adjustment however will be marginal as the ecu is generally limited in how much adjustment it can make as the expecation from car manufactorers is to allow a little variation but not too much .... dont forget the stock ecu is not expecting to be running anything above and beyond being stock ...... will it be the right fuel mixture .... i probably assume it wont be as u generally find car makers stick to the safe side and run stock setups a little richer than required ..... only way to get the "right" fuel mixture as u put it is to get an aftermarket ecu and get a tuner to tune it to match ur mods.

After these upgrades, what kind of improvement can i expect??

i would say in terms of peak power u will see a gain of 5%-10% ..... which isnt huge but should hopefully be marginally noticeable ..... where u should notice the difference though is lower in the rev range where the car should be more driveable and not as sluggish building the revs ...... as long as ofcourse u dont go too big on the intake and not too big on the exhaust because if u do u will simply kill any performance gains.

Thanks Xoom.

This answer helped a lot and made most of my questions clear

Can you clarify your last sentence for me? how big is too big?

I have a K&N typhoon SRI underway (should arrive today! ) and will have PPE headers and 2,5" all the way (no cat, Magnaflow catback and Magnaflow mufler (mufler already on the car))

[xoom]

Thanks Xoom.

This answer helped a lot and made most of my questions clear

Can you clarify your last sentence for me? how big is too big?

I have a K&N typhoon SRI underway (should arrive today! ) and will have PPE headers and 2,5" all the way (no cat, Magnaflow catback and Magnaflow mufler (mufler already on the car))

i think with what u bought u should be fine

[Snesi_SU]

Thanks Xoom.

This answer helped a lot and made most of my questions clear

Can you clarify your last sentence for me? how big is too big?

I have a K&N typhoon SRI underway (should arrive today! ) and will have PPE headers and 2,5" all the way (no cat, Magnaflow catback and Magnaflow mufler (mufler already on the car))

i think with what u bought u should be fine

Thanks..

Can't wait till everything arrives..

I'm curious for the results of the mods

Hopefully i won't be disappointed, cause it's a whole lot of money going in for these mods lol

[SuperDave]

I'm curious for the results of the mods

Hopefully i won't be disappointed, cause it's a whole lot of money going in for these mods lol

That's how NA mods are

[xoom]

I'm curious for the results of the mods

Hopefully i won't be disappointed, cause it's a whole lot of money going in for these mods lol

for a small capacity n/a engine these mods completement the car really well .... they help with down low grunt and allow it to get moving a bit more pacey than when it was stock ...... that being said dont expect it to go from a little hot hatch to a super car overnight because of these mods ..... dont forget u need to put things into perspective so dont set the bar too high or you will be disappointed.

[Snesi_SU]

I will not expect too much of improvement :P lol

I don't think i'll be disappointed.

What is the average time for our sportivo on a quarter mile run? full stock?

And how much difference (in time) after certain mods?

[DJKOR]

What is the average time for our sportivo on a quarter mile run? full stock?

And how much difference (in time) after certain mods?

The answer to that question is at the top of this forum if you missed it:

TOC 1/4 Mile Records - UPDATED 14/07/2008 - NOW WITH ADDED VIDS & PICS