oil catch can

[campbeam]

59 minutes ago, KAA said:

it now takes a degree in engineering and computer science to just do a basic job job on these modern day engines

Definitely need those skills if you want to hack the ECU and re-tune the engine to your specific requirements.

In the good old days, I would be loosening a bolt on the distributor to advance the timing or tuning the engine by ear. Still remember being driven crazy by a slight engine miss at idle. Ended up looking at a tuning guide and re-gapping the spark plugs was the fix. Now it is all done electronically.  

The oil catch can is a good, legal, environmentally friendly workaround for PCV. So much easier when these oil vapours etc were vented externally but maybe there is less oil on the roads. 

[Tony Prodigy]

8 hours ago, KAA said:

my mechanic is the man to do the swearing and fixing saves my blood pressure.

🤣🤣🤣 100 % in agreement, although it's me doing the swearing and having the high blood pressure sometimes. I have to whisper the choice words to myself so my young fella doesn't hear me lol..

8 hours ago, KAA said:

I now days just keep it clean shiny and smelling nice inside

That's the ticket mate. I don't mind having to do the mechanical repairs and maintenance,  but this is by far my favourite part. It's like the cherry on the cake.

[Tony Prodigy]

9 hours ago, campbeam said:

I did speculate that the catch can could be a heat collector and potentially cool the airflow so the air finally going to the intake could be slightly cooler. It makes sense that oil droplets are going to form when the airflow becomes cooler. Something that I had overlooked.

But in essence, the cooler air coming back is advantageous no ? Also, the air coming back shouldn't have any oil vapour ?

I also wonder if the catch can wasn't emptied in time would the liquid come back into the engine and cause it to smoke ?

[campbeam]

1 hour ago, Tony Prodigy said:

But in essence, the cooler air coming back is advantageous no ? Also, the air coming back shouldn't have any oil vapour ?

I also wonder if the catch can wasn't emptied in time would the liquid come back into the engine and cause it to smoke ?

Cooler air should be a plus. Air coming back should ideally not have any oil vapour. In a few YouTube videos, some people have added stainless steel wool presumably as an aid to condense the oil vapour into droplets which then collect at the bottom of the can. 

I also had the same thought. With a smaller size catch can i.e.300ml there was more potential for the caught oil to be sucked up into the engine. Main reason why I selected a bigger capacity. Common recommendation is to drain the catch can at an oil change. Different matter if the PCV valve is stuck open or baffles in the valve cover are sludged up. Guess is that with a turbocharged engine you would need a larger catch can or to be checking/emptying it more often.   

[ZZT86]

Ashley, please keep us posted as to how much oil your catch-can is trapping as I'm curious, generally NA port injected cars don't need them. Direct Injection & Forced Induction cars are a must imo. I seriously considered a CC for my Hachi a few years ago, did the research, talking to Saikou Michi & Radium then I realised there was no oil staining on the intake from the PCV line & called it a day.

Really depends on how much blow by is coming from those rings. Yet another preventative maintenance tip is what I commonly do on Hachis boxer engine is UEC or Upper Engine Cleaner which I do from time to time. I plan on doing this on the Aurion also as it gets in there & disolves any build up crud & burns it up. Did it on my 1MZ & it worked.

[Tony Prodigy]

9 minutes ago, ZZT86 said:

generally NA port injected cars don't need them. Direct Injection & Forced Induction cars are a must imo.

I was under the impression that the 2GR-FE was direct and port injected.

[ZZT86]

The 2GR-FE doesn't have D4S like the 2GR-FSE & so it's just ported which is not a bad thing 😉 Some of the Lexus motors like on the GS are Direct Injection only which needs good attention to prevent that going south. The D4S is an ingenious system & a royal pita to tune so I'm told due to the complexities of the 2 systems working side by side & overlapping. The 86/BRZ have D4S.

Edited August 12, 2020 by ZZT86

[campbeam]

2 hours ago, ZZT86 said:

keep us posted as to how much oil your catch-can is trapping as I'm curious, generally NA port injected cars don't need them.

I do know that a few drops of oil were previously caught in the in-line filter and the oil separator. The oil can had some moisture which I wiped out with a tissue.

Visually checked the in-line filter and oil separator today and there was nothing obvious.

Planning upon opening the oil catch can when back in about 10 days. It will be interesting to see how much oil vapour gets past the in-line filter and oil separator then into the oil catch can. 

[KAA]

Ash just keep safe out there, enjoy the break and look forward to hearing all the news when your back..breath in that fresh for all of us mate and love to you and your family

KAA

[Tony Prodigy]

4 hours ago, KAA said:

Ash just keep safe out there, enjoy the break and look forward to hearing all the news when your back..breath in that fresh for all of us mate and love to you and your family

KAA

Yep. Stay safe Ashley AND she who must be obeyed too. 

When are you heading off ?

[campbeam]

Car was packed last night. Just as well we are not taking the Yaris.

All ready to rock and roll very soon. Got a foggy morning so has worked out that we will be leaving later than planned.

I will soon know in a few hours how well this catch can is working.

[Tony Prodigy]

7 hours ago, campbeam said:

Car was packed last night. Just as well we are not taking the Yaris

No comment lol, except to say you're better off taking the luxury saloon. After all you want full comfort and power on tap mate 

[campbeam]

3 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

No comment lol, except to say you're better off taking the luxury saloon. After all you want full comfort and power on tap mate 

Suspension is getting a workout at times and no need to slow down like smaller sized vehicles. Power mojo is back. Accelerated quickly at end of roadworks from 60kph to 100kph and engine was only doing 2000rpm. Bit of a failed test this morning. I did a hard acceleration from a rest area and left a minor smoke screen behind. I was expecting that the oil catch can would have prevented that from happening. I did check and the oil separator appears to have caught some oil. Fortunately when I was doing some hard acceleration in the overtaking lanes there was no more smoking. Next test is when I start the car this evening to see whether there is any smoke.

[campbeam]

On 8/13/2020 at 6:42 PM, campbeam said:

Fortunately when I was doing some hard acceleration in the overtaking lanes there was no more smoking. Next test is when I start the car this evening to see whether there is any smoke.

Started the car last night and no smoke. Sure that there was no smoke this morning upon initial startup. Because it was a foggy morning, there was some exhaust vapor. No more exhaust smoke during today's acceleration tests. Getting daily pictures of the oil on the dipstick and will post some after the trip.

[Tony Prodigy]

The highway run will give it a good shake up Ash. It will thank you later.

[campbeam]

10 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

The highway run will give it a good shake up Ash. It will thank you later.

Getting more of a shake up than expected, reckon that the engine has used about 2 litres.

Oil level was down to just above low this morning. Surprising to me, there was some oil caught in the catch can which appeared to be the Nulon oil additive. Drained those few drops bank into the engine and added about 750ml of engine oil. Ended up visiting SuperCheap Innisfail and bought 4 litres of oil.

Will look at the oil catch can when back home by next weekend.

[ZZT86]

Sounds like time to remove the cam covers for a proper inspection & cleanout 😉

[Tony Prodigy]

14 hours ago, ZZT86 said:

Sounds like time to remove the cam covers for a proper inspection & cleanout 😉

Good idea mate, but it is a PITA job just to remove one cover let alone two and the back one will be difficult.

[campbeam]

Finally worked out that the oil catch can that I bought is not performing as expected.

There is no 50 micron bronze filter or baffles in that oil catch can. I added a plastic tube inside to direct the air inflow to the bottom of the can. Looks like any oil vapor is still going into the air outflow. I will have to look at inserting a divider between the airflows and also add stainless steel wool.

Perhaps fortunate that I have a different oil catch can coming {on a slow boat] from China.

Oh well, another problem to solve that will keep me amused on the weekends. 

[Tony Prodigy]

3 minutes ago, campbeam said:

There is no 50 micron bronze filter or baffles in that oil catch can

I think that's the secret to the success of the catch can. The quality ones all seem to come with one.

Now it makes sense. The oil vapour is virtually just going on a scenic route and winding up back into the inlet chamber. The tube won't work I think because of the pressure involved. The stainless steel wool would counteract this and allow the oil to seep through and remain at the bottom for collection.

[campbeam]

36 minutes ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Now it makes sense. The oil vapour is virtually just going on a scenic route and winding up back into the inlet chamber. The tube won't work I think because of the pressure involved. The stainless steel wool would counteract this and allow the oil to seep through and remain at the bottom for collection.

Certainly have to agree. Travelling at a constant speed say 2000rpm at 100kph, suction pressure is constant. Different matter when doing urban driving with more stop start and varying engine rpm. It makes sense that varying and lower suction pressures will provide more opportunity for the oil vapor to condense into droplets. Also need the baffles and filtering for any collected oil to remain at the bottom of the can when suction pressure increases.

Plenty to think about in the design for optimum results.

The other learning is that it is best to be having reduced oil vapor being sucked up via the PCV valve.

[campbeam]

On 8/16/2020 at 11:18 AM, Tony Prodigy said:

I think that's the secret to the success of the catch can. The quality ones all seem to come with one.

Now it makes sense. The oil vapour is virtually just going on a scenic route and winding up back into the inlet chamber. The tube won't work I think because of the pressure involved. The stainless steel wool would counteract this and allow the oil to seep through and remain at the bottom for collection.

This is the picture of the oil still in the catch can after 1800+kms without the PCV valve screwed into the valve cover. 

 Now given the oil catch can a thorough clean plus the PCV valve, the inline filter and oil separator  [again]. You may be able to see the plastic tube directing the airflow to the bottom of the can. Looks like I will be just adding lots of stainless steel wool before refitting the oil catch can.

Oil looks quite dirty after 3800+kms but the Nulon additive presumably gives it a darker appearance. I do know that the synthetic oil has given the engine a good internal clean. Oil filter cartridge has been swapped out and oil will be changed later. I also used a plastic tie to probe the PCV valve opening and did not find any sludge. Leaving the valve cover untouched at this stage. More likely to happen at the next oil change. 

After the oil change then I will refit the oil can and see what the next results look like.

[Tony Prodigy]

2 hours ago, campbeam said:

Oil looks quite dirty after 3800+kms but the Nulon additive presumably gives it a darker appearance. I do know that the synthetic oil has given the engine a good internal clean. Oil filter cartridge has been swapped out and oil will be changed later. I also used a plastic tie to probe the PCV valve opening and did not find any sludge. Leaving the valve cover untouched at this stage. More likely to happen at the next oil change. 

Probably what you expected hey Ash ? De sludging an engine is a tedious and time consuming endeavour. I'm sure it will get there with time.

The catch can definitely needs a filter of sorts. I'd be interested to see the next phase of this experiment.

Just a little off topic if I may. I was on you tube and came across this from a past member who doesn't feature much here anymore. I recalled the name instantly lol..

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Tony Prodigy

[campbeam]

6 minutes ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Probably what you expected hey Ash ? De sludging an engine is a tedious and time consuming endeavour. I'm sure it will get there with time.

Part of the interest of a challenge is getting different results to what you were expecting. After doing that overkill oil change, I was expecting the oil to stay cleaner for longer. Previously use full synthetic oil had only done 1400?kms and was quite dirty already. I thought that it had done an excellent job of removing oil sludge in the engine but yet more to do in the baffles area of the valve cover. I was expecting that this new oil and road trip would remove any remaining sludge in the valve cover. Plan was to post a comparison picture of new oil vs oil replaced at 1400km vs oil after the road trip. Adding the Nulon additive which is black and grey in colour impacted that plan. I did visually compare the 1400km oil with the current road trip oil. Both are very similar with the road trip oil being slightly darker.  

As for the catch can, I was expecting nil oil. I did drain the catch can at Townsville. Most likely more oil got accumulated until later in Cairns. I was then expecting any oil in the catch can would have been sucked up into the intake on the trip back to Brisbane. At least it demonstrated that once the vapour did condense into oil, it stayed in the catch can. 

[ZZT86]

I was poking around to see what auto specials were about today & look what I found ?  https://www.rycofilters.com.au/Crankcase_CatchCan

Big problem appears the filter is damn expensive, I have emailed SparesBox to ask if they're going to stock it & how much, currently best temporary price is @ Autobarn for $70 on special. Looks like a good system & Aussie engineered. Only other alternatives are a Universal Radium CC or a Saikou Michi which may also have a suitable unit for the 2GR-FE.

Edited August 21, 2020 by ZZT86