TRANSMISSION FLUID LV 4L $36

[Tony Prodigy]

21 hours ago, Thirteen said:

This clip basically showed exactly what to do, obviously compeltely different model of car, but in essense is EXACTLY the same. However we got luxury of drain plug! But you see the same stuff, drain fluid out, change filter, insert new oring, new gasket, bolt up in star pattern, fill with whatever came out. Ez lyf

Change Auto Trans fluid

 

Thanks

I like those Chris Fix videos. He is very competent and seems like a cool bloke too.

[Thirteen]

Ya, he explains everything quite clearly. Even if your competent, somethings just get explained with that bit extra! 

Just a small update, the u660e is still running like a champ. I did read on the Pensite ATF LV bottle its backwards compatible. I watched a good clip on oil manufactering and they mentioned back in the old days, you couldnt mix any synthetic oils with mineral oils. However now days with any oils, engine, gear etc as long as they are the same grade and fall into the same specs then they are compatible. Be it mineral or synth

[AurionX2]

Gentlemen,

First and foremost, many thanks to everyone who contributed to the U660E related topics here, your contribution was priceless.

Secondly, don't hold me liable for anything below, it just "worked for me"(c). Stay safe at all time!

So, decided it was about time to bite the bullet and service the transmission on the 2008 Aurion, with dropping the pan, replacing the filter and doing a full flush using the method through the cooler return line  from the toyotanation DIY topic with Toyota genuine filter, gasket and o-ring (165aud, ripoff, a Ryco kit is ~50 on eBay or 55 @SCA!) and 3x4l drums of Penrite ATV LV from Repco, about 93aud in total on sale.

Basically went like this:

1. Wait for the engine/trans to cool down a bit, chock the rear wheels and jack up the car. Make sure it's level using a 3aud leveller from Bunnings. I've eventually ended up using 3 axle stands, better safe than sorry!

2. Left front wheel off. Remove the 2 shields, lower left and side. Remove the overflow and drain plugs with the 6mm hex socket then drain the trans oil, about 2.8l came out. Then remove the bolts and dropped the pan, adding some more 3-400ml from the pan and filter in the disposal jug. @krigeroz, your home engineered special key to undo *that* bolt saved my day :)

3. Clean and degrease everything carefully, it's not an operation done weekly or monthly so having started around 10am I just took my time.

4. Install new filter with the o-ring and put the pan back up with the new gasket. *That* bolt kept me busy for about 15-20minutes but with a bit of cursing, swearing and a lot of luck I defeated it eventually. Replaced the drained and overflow plugs, but unfortunately at this stage I made the first and thankfully last beginner mistake: I snapped a pan bolt, the very last one tightened :(

5. Refill with 3.2l and start the engine, let it to idle for about 10-15 minutes and check for leaks, then turn the engine on. Take a break, stretch and get everything ready for the flush.

6. Disconnect the cooler return hose that goes into the transmission from the cooler end and connect a transparent vinyl tube that goes into a measuring jug.

7. Pump out / funnel in. Get DW to start the engine and pump 1litre of fluid out, then stop the engine. Note: after stopping the there's some extra 100-150ml coming out, need to account for that when doing it. Remove the filler 24mm plug labelled WS and pour 1 litre in (the first time I went with about 1.25l, better to be a bit over). Replace the refill plug hand tight. Repeat until new fluid comes out. All up, including the pan refill I've used 12 litres of Penrite ATF. Note: before pouring the 1 litre make sure the vinyl tube is firmly inserted into the refill hole.

8. Replace the refill plug hand tight and go through the fluid level check procedure. At this point the fluid should be well below the 40-45 Celsius degrees range. Here I used a jumper wire and shorted OBD2 pins 4 and 13 and verified the temperature with an infrared thermometer. Now, the part I was most afraid I wouldn't get right: With the car in P start the engine, the dash lights will start blinking like a Xmas tree indicating the car is in some diagnostic mode. Then:

- Move the gear shift slowly into R, N, D. Then move to S and cycle slowly through all 1 to 6 gears. All necessary to circulate the fluid. Return to P and take few breaths, the next 6 seconds are important.

- Move to D and cycle N-D-N-D once every 1.5seconds, should finish in ~6 seconds in D. The D light will remain on for 2 seconds, then go off. Move the gearshift back into P. Now the car in is in temperature detection mode and the trans fluid is below 40 degrees. Remove the jumper wire. Note: you don't have to be extremely accurate with the 1.5/6 seconds counting, you'll eventually get it right. Suggest practising the detection mode before doing the flush to become comfortable with the procedure.

- Let the car idle, when the temperature reaches 40 degrees you can start checking the level. As soon as D light came on I went underneath to check the oil pan temperature with the infrared gun in several points and got 38-39 degrees readings, so off by few degrees which was acceptable for me. With the engine running removed the overflow plug and the fluid started to trickle, meaning I was bang on with the refill. Replaced the overflow plug and tightened it, followed by tightening the refill plug. Done! Note: if the D light starts blinking it means the oil is above 45 degrees, you must stop the engine, let it cool down and start again.

- Stop the engine, re-check all the pan bolts, check for leaks, then reinstall the shields. Replace the front wheel.

- Remove the funnel & vinyl tube, then the tools / pan / rags / dropsheets / other objects from underneath the car, make sure no curious kids are stuffing around, then lower the car. Tighten the wheel nuts at 76lbs and remove the wheel. Look around the car, hopefully no parts / bolts / clips left around. Job done, time to praise yourself you've only ended up with one snapped bolt.

- Go on a drive to test your work, if possible including suburban, coasting and freeway. When returning back home check for leaks again.

Essential points and lessons learned:

- Take your time, don't rush.

- Read and reread the toyotanation.com topic and this one until everything is clear and follows a logical workflow.

- Practise the temperature detection mode beforehand.

- Don't over-tighten the pan bolts. The manual says 8nm torque which is extremely light.

- Use dropsheets & rags in abundance, it does get messy.

- Have extra shield clips handy, I broke 2 out of 3 from the lower left shield.

See here the U250 and U660 repair manual, pages 55-57 for the U660 filling procedure.

Thank you all again, you're a great bunch of selfless people :)

Edited March 18, 2018 by AurionX2

[campbeam]

7 hours ago, AurionX2 said:

With the engine running removed the overflow plug and the fluid started to trickle, meaning I was bang on with the refill.

After the fluid is just a series of drops then tighten the drain plug. Extra step is to add another 200ml of ATF. Without this extra 200ml of fluid, I was experiencing some lag and harshness in gear shifts, more noticeable when ATF was cold.

[AurionX2]

40 minutes ago, campbeam said:

After the fluid is just a series of drops then tighten the drain plug. Extra step is to add another 200ml of ATF. Without this extra 200ml of fluid, I was experiencing some lag and harshness in gear shifts, more noticeable when ATF was cold.

Thanks Ashley, good point. Didn't think I'd have to top up with additional 200ml, but I'll definitely consider it. I think I should first wait for the car to jolt forward when coasting on a steep hill at low speed in 2nd gear, what do you think? It used to do it quite often before.

[campbeam]

I had to read the Toyota procedures a number of times before I noticed the additional 200ml.

This is on the last page of the attached document: (d) Add an additional 200 ml of ATF WS through the refill hole.

U660E AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID ADJUSTMENT.doc 

With the correct ATF level, gear changes are now ultra smooth in my 2006 Aurion ATX. I am more likely to notice the speed and rpm changes [if any] than the gear changes. Something I do is to keep a steady 2000 rpm from a standing start, watch the speed progressively climb up to 60 or 80 kph and not really feel the gear changes which would be happening.

[AurionX2]

Interesting, so this is a 2015 document that specifically mentions adding extra 200ml after the check fluid level procedure is complete. I've got a handful of documents, all pre-2015, none of them giving the slightest hint about having to top up with 200ml. Why would this be even necessary? I'm not arguing the necessity, but does this mean Toyota have miscalculated the height of the overflow plastic tube from day dot and corrected their calculations later? It just doesn't make sense to top up after the level check procedure is followed to the letter. If the 200ml amount was necessary in the first place it should have been documented earlier, shouldn't it?

Edited March 18, 2018 by AurionX2

[mg85]

The level should be checked with transmission temp between 40-45c after putting in drive then reverse a few times to get the oil distributed.

[AurionX2]

Quick update: after servicing it I could reproduce the flare up when coasting at low speed once and, as a result, last Saturday I've added the extra 200ml of juice to the transmission. So far it looks like Ashley was right: since then the car's gear shifts feel more like my wife's 2013 Aurion, there's noticeably less lag for both downshifting and upshifting and during the last few chilli Melbourne mornings it "felt" smoother when cold. Seems to be more predictable now. Still early days, though.

How can 200ml, or ~3% extra fluid, make such difference?

L.E. Oh and on the snapped bolt: haven't found any leak at all around the area, however on Satuday I went and got rid of the bit left in the hole and fitted a M6x12mm bolt from Bunnings with 3 washers in there, now that's my fingerprint :)

Edited March 28, 2018 by AurionX2

[campbeam]

12 hours ago, AurionX2 said:

How can 200ml, or ~3% extra fluid, make such difference?

Transmission design with sensors for fluid pressure, temperature etc to then activate gear change.

ATF also expands in volume with temperature. Total volume of ATF in the U660E transmission is 6570ml which expands by about 500ml when at operating temperature.

[AurionX2]

Thought it might be useful to follow up on the gearbox fluid change 7 weeks and ~3800kms later. Overall the car has settled in really well, no slamming into gear when cold, nor flaring when coast anymore. Smooth and responsive, no hesitation when downshifting for overtaking. It literally drives like new, there's no difference afaict when comparing it with my wife's 2013 ATX with 48000kms. Based on *my experience* I sincerely recommend the filter change and full flush *if done right*.

P.S. Repco has 30% off all Penrite oils this weekend if interested.

[campbeam]

Last weekend, the local Repco store did not have any stock of the Penrite LV ATF.

Just received an email from SuperCheap offering 25% discount for over $100 online orders ending Wednesday 16th May @ 7PM. Discount code is MAYHEM. Immediately placed an order which included qty 2 of Penrite LV ATF 4 litre with a discount price of $67.48 and local store pick up.

[krigeroz]

On 15/05/2018 at 4:36 PM, campbeam said:

Last weekend, the local Repco store did not have any stock of the Penrite LV ATF.

Just received an email from SuperCheap offering 25% discount for over $100 online orders ending Wednesday 16th May @ 7PM. Discount code is MAYHEM. Immediately placed an order which included qty 2 of Penrite LV ATF 4 litre with a discount price of $67.48 and local store pick up.

Well now it is even better deal, just for $29 it is the lowest price I've ever seen. Usually this kind special sales happen once every year, you just need to be patient and know the maximum lowest price it can go. If you miss out in the sale at Super cheap the similar sale will happen at Autobarn sometime later. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by krigeroz

[campbeam]

Just got email from SuperCheap Auto for Club Members 35% discount off Penrite Oils 18-20 May.

Penrite LV ATF 4 litre $29.24 discount price too attractive to let go. If you are not a member, you can join in store and get the discount prices applied immediately.

I did another online order for 4 with local store pick-up to ensure I did not miss out. Also applied a $9 credit from my previous purchase.

[krigeroz]

Another good video on changing ATF 

 

https://www.project200.com.au/atf-flush/

I also got to know that Toyota ATF is made by Idemitsu, Japan.

The only thing which I'm not very clear, is that if it is synthetic or mineral ATF.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by krigeroz

[AurionX2]

Finished earlier today my wife's 2013 Aurion, 59987kms with no transmission service to date. Pan drop + fluid exchange using the return cooler line. On the pita bolt an interesting fact, managed to get it out just with a 10mm ratchet ring spanner, nothing else needed. Bit finicky but irrelevant in the big picture anyway, I swapped the bolt for an allen head one. Other things to note:

-the Ryco RTK201 kit comes without the o-ring. Reused the original.

- the shaving on the bottom of the pan and especially on the two magnets looked just as bad as what I found on my 2008 Aurion, which did around 142.000 kms when I pulled the pan first time. Following the math induction principle, looks like most crap like metal shavings etc makes its way to the bottom of the pan in the first 60k 🙂 So to all the folks involved in the "sealed for life" tranny design & manufacturing: up yours you f^*&wits may you all r()t in h3ll.

- I can confirm (is it really necessary?) that the fluid exchange led to much smoother shifts. Literally, no 2-3 and 3-4 changes are barely noticed. Initially I thought my wife's car shifts were a bit harsher - more noticeable than my 2008 Aurion, already serviced last year - due to age, materials, TCM programming etc. Plain wrong, reckon it was the fluid, changing the WS & flushing with Penrite made a hell of a lot of difference. It literally feels like another car now when warm you need to keep your eyes on the tacho to notice the shifts. I'm really curious to see the difference in shifting between Penrite ATF LV and Valvoline Maxlife. Still got about 6litres of Penrite left in the shed, will use those for the next 2 drain/refills, then will test the Valvoline.

Long story short, U660E must be serviced. Whoever says otherwise is either lying, or they've no idea.

Edited February 17, 2019 by AurionX2

[campbeam]

31 minutes ago, AurionX2 said:

bottom of the pan and especially on the two magnets looked just as bad what I found on my 2008 Aurion, which did around 142.000 kms when I pulled the pan first time

Thank you for that bit of information. Looks like I will have to put a filter and ATF change on the "Should Do"list for my 2008 Aurion Prodigy which has 110K on the odometer when I finally decide to register her and give my 2006 ATX a rest.

I was previously using Chief synthetic ATF but changed to Penrite ATF LV. Replaced the transmission pan ATF before an interstate road trip and again after 5K. Gear changes are now so much smoother when cold and not noticable when ATF has warmed up. Still got about 20 litres of Penrite ATF LV [purchased when on special] so will be a few years before I will need more full synthetic ATF.

[AurionX2]

2 years and 42.000kms later, time for drain and refill on my 2008. Only 2.4l came out this time without dropping the pan, 2.45l went back in. Same Penrite LV used. So far so good.

[Tony Prodigy]

Hello all. Sorry for my absence.Been quite busy and after just having done my oil service at 115K, it is now necessary to undertake this transmission service.

Not that it is shifting any different but I think I've prolonged it long enough. She still drives beautifully.

I've gone through and re read all the posts here to get my head around all the info, making some notes along the way too.

I'm just wondering about something though, and forgive me if I missed something, but say hypothetically, I remove 3lt of old fluid (new filter saturated and installed) then put 3lt of new fluid back in, would checking fluid level be necessary ?

Is it also possible for excess fluid to drain if performing the fluid check (at the correct temp of course) even  though 3 came out and 3 went back in ?

Krigeroz also touched on something about raising the car then lowering it a few times to stimulate more fluid to come out. So instead of one drain of around 2.8lt, you can actually pull more "old" fluid out and hence improve the overall fluid integrity. I've noticed nobody else has attempted this or at least spoken about it.

If it helps to pull more old fluid out then i'm all for it.

Let me know your thoughts guys.

Cheers

Tony

[campbeam]

On 3/17/2020 at 3:53 AM, Tony Prodigy said:

hypothetically, I remove 3lt of old fluid (new filter saturated and installed) then put 3lt of new fluid back in, would checking fluid level be necessary ?

Hypothetically, checking fluid level would not be necessary. Realistically, your fluid measurements would need to be very accurate plus allow for the volume of sludge build up on the transmission pan which you will be cleaning off and any evaporation. Best to add another 200ml or at least fill the new filter with ATF.

 

[campbeam]

On 3/17/2020 at 3:53 AM, Tony Prodigy said:

pull more "old" fluid out and hence improve the overall fluid integrity.

The transmission has an overall capacity of 6.3 to 6.5 litres. So there is plenty of öld" fluid after changing the ATF. Best way that I know of is to flush the transmission by disconnecting the return line to the transmission. In this scenario, you should definitely need to fully know and comprehend the fluid level check procedure. I have done this on my other vehicles [transmissions with dipsticks] but not on the Aurion. Another option is to drive the vehicle then do another ATF change.

Toyota Camry ATF Transmission Fluid Flush.docx

[Tony Prodigy]

1 hour ago, campbeam said:

Hypothetically, checking fluid level would not be necessary. Realistically, your fluid measurements would need to be very accurate plus allow for the volume of sludge build up on the transmission pan which you will be cleaning off and any evaporation. Best to add another 200ml or at least fill the new filter with ATF.

 

Yes, I thought as much. I purchased a 2lt, 4lt and 5lt plastic jug and plan to use either the 4 or 5 to collect the drained fluid. These will enable a pretty accurate measurement. Whatever this will be , I'll add 200mL extra. I will also fill and drain off the new filter to saturate it to enhance the refill accuracy.

So, after the initial drain, I might try and jack the car up and lower it and see if this offers up more fluid. 

Krigeroz did this and he got plenty more out. 

[Tony Prodigy]

I came across this channel on you tube and found it really interesting. If anyone has the time take a look.

This man is a fountain of knowledge, a veteran of the automotive repair industry and he sure knows his Toyota's. There are some other videos in there relating to the U660E as well.

 

[Tony Prodigy]

I had a thought and was just wondering.

Say I pan drain the transmission and get the usual 2+ LT of fluid out. Would it be ok to then refit the pan, start the engine to induce more fluid from within ?

My reckoning is that as the innards rotate, they will excrete fluid and ultimately find there way into the pan. Is this a possibility ?

Will starting the engine and running the transmission 2+ LT short do any damage I wonder ?

 

[campbeam]

4 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Will starting the engine and running the transmission 2+ LT short do any damag

I have had the same thoughts but not actioned them. Risk is potential wear or damage to the oil pump and the torque convertor. My previous and current approach has been to do multiple pan fluid changes. However, if I had been more knowledgeable and experienced at the time of the fluid level check procedure, I would have done a transmission flush by disconnecting the return line from the oil cooler at the bottom of the radiator. 

Last ATF change, I drained the pan when the fluid was at operational temperature and the car was up on ramps with the engine turned off. Reasoning was that the fluid would have expanded and there would be more fluid in the pan. I then let the drained ATF cool down then poured it into 2 x 1.5litre plastic bottles. I then used a 3rd 1.5litre plastic bottle to match the level in each bottle for re-filling purposes. Acceptable accuracy of measurement and no issue if you add a few more mls.

Following are my calculations for the capacities within the various components of the transmission based upon servicing data at an ambient temperature of 20C and an operating temperature of 100C.

 

	Litres	Expansion	Mls
Torque Converter Capacity [calculated]	1.9	1.076	2044.4
Valve Body Capacity [calculated]	0.4	1.076	430.4
Oil cooler and cooler hose  Capacity [calculated]	0.5	1.076	538
Oil pan  Capacity [calculated]	2.8	1.076	3012.8
Remainder/Balancing  Capacity [calculated]	0.97	1.076	1043.72
		Temp.20C
	Litres	Temp.100C	Mls
Total Capacity = 6570ml = 6.57 litres	6.57	1.076	7069.32
Fluid Expansion @ 80x0.00095=0.076=7.6%			499.32
			6570