Hydraulic Engine Mount for v6 Camry Touring sedan

[virginia63]

1 minute ago, trentmeyer23 said:

If the engine was lifted with the hoses still connected to the radiator and he ran out of slack in the hose, it could definitely weaken the clamping seal from the core to the top tank. The hoses are far stronger than you would think.

no he took the radiator and fan out completely. i saw it on the ground so it wasn't connected. 

[trentmeyer23]

13 minutes ago, virginia63 said:

no he took the radiator and fan out completely. i saw it on the ground so it wasn't connected. 

Did you see the whole job in progress?

He may have removed it after something occurred. If it was fine before it went to him and not afterwards, it is very unlikely(not impossible) that it let go on its own.

I doubt this guy has done anything intentially, rather a case of incompetence. 

[virginia63]

no i didn't see the whole job because he had my car over 4 days. i had to walk up several times over that period as once i got the mount delivered to my house due to him going out and then I took it to him at the shop when he got back. before that i went up to see the original broken bolt after he damaged the mount so i could see what he was talking about (at that point i didn't even know what an engine mount was). on the 3rd day while I was there [after we decided to use the solid mount after all, and I took it back to him as I had been going to return it to the supplier until we found out we could modify it]; that's when he incidentally showed me the radiator and told me he had removed it so he could get to the timing belt easier. there was no discussion or question about issues or problems with it. I've had the car 4 years and never had an issue with water leaks. I admit it's probably due to refurbish but can't see how moving it out would compromise it unless (as you say) he was incompetent whilst handling it (I think he forgot the water or something like that). Anyhow, nothing I can do now but get it fixed at a radiator specialist on Monday. Currently it's hailing pretty heavy here so I aint going nowhere lol !

[virginia63]

who wants to stand there and watch their mechanic work anyway. the *mechanic should've been reliable enough for me to leave the car and come back when ready. that's what i pay him for. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by trentmeyer23
*Edited language.

[trentmeyer23]

1 hour ago, virginia63 said:

who wants to stand there and watch their mechanic work anyway.

No one, that's my point.

You don't know what has happened when you were not present. Unfortunately there are some incompetent and untrustworthy people in the business.

Also, whilst I understand your frustration, please keep your language PG.

[CM641]

Our Hilux burst the top tank of the Hilux due to the mechanic pressure testing it and then fitting the wrong pressure cap. Toyota had only one OEM radiator left in stock in Australia and it cost us near to $1000. Perhaps the leaking issue was from a pressure test or mishandling/rough treatment on the mechanic's part, or maybe a combination of both and then again it could be an age thing too.

I am never quite 100% confident with the work carried out on my 20 year old Camry unless it is done by myself or the dealership. It is expensive but at least I know the job was done correctly.

Best of luck with the engine mount, it is a bit difficult owning an uncommon car (manual V6 Camry.)

Cheers,

Charlie

[virginia63]

1 hour ago, trentmeyer23 said:

No one, that's my point.

You don't know what has happened when you were not present. Unfortunately there are some incompetent and untrustworthy people in the business.

Also, whilst I understand your frustration, please keep your language PG.

totally. sorry i forgot i was on a public forum for a sec. also i was just venting, not aiming at anyone here. as you say one can't see what goes on when they're not there and there is so much trust involved. that was the hardest part here, having that trust so violated. 

[virginia63]

@CM641 i feel for you mate, $1000 is an expensive outlay that you weren't ready for. i hope mine can be repaired and doesn't cost that much. i'd just like to hear for once that a mechanic blows a customer's part and owns up to it. really they should be covering the cost don't you think? i thought my rogue mechanic ought to have owned up for threading the bolt and bursting the insides of my engine mount. and if he did know about damaging my radiator, he said nothing to me and let me drive away knowing i'd probably overheat at the side of the road. i thought about going to Toyota from now on but i've had another local guy (recommended this time), been to see him and he's nothing like the first guy. he's polite and straightforward, easy to understand. i'm new in my area and still finding my way around in terms of services. went to the first guy, the rogue, via a leaflet drop in my letterbox. he's new to the area too so i thought i'd give him a hand up with my business. that's the gratitude i get. 

[trentmeyer23]

2 minutes ago, virginia63 said:

really they should be covering the cost don't you think?

If it is a new part, then yes. If it was damaged due to negligence/laziness; to some degree, yes. 

If it is a part with quite a few years or kilometres and had to be replaced due to disturbance required to access a component(s) that would otherwise be non-accessible, then no.

The struggle is proving that the damage has been caused intentionally or by incompetence. This is where an honest mechanic comes into their own.

[virginia63]

14 minutes ago, trentmeyer23 said:

 ... This is where an honest mechanic comes into their own.

this.

edit- you know, when the part is [as you say] disturbed to access something else and that causes it to give, you don't mind paying for it.

Edited April 8, 2017 by virginia63

[trentmeyer23]

I use http://www.rockauto.com/ quite regularly as well, it is a US market site. It has images to help, but you just need to double check they aren't a generic image.

There is the risk of parts not being compatible, but the prices are far cheaper for aftermarket parts. That being said I have only had 3 parts that were not correct, due to local manufacturing here in Australia being slightly different. 3 parts different out of hundreds isn't too bad.

The OEM part number you listed also matched with the US OEM parts manuals as well.

 

[trentmeyer23]

To be honest, I think it may even have the incorrect mount fitted previously. This may have been due to availability or incorrect parts supply. They are clearly interchangeable.

I just re-read that you said that the Touring was supposed to be the "comfy" model. This is actually not correct. The Touring was supposed to be the stiffer, more sporty version of the models, Toyota did their best to minimise the harshness. It was designed to catch the market from the Australian touring car series of the time. So the solid mount results you have been getting were probably correct.

As can be seen here:

http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring-services/reviews/car-reviews/toyota/camry-touring.htm

The correct bolt should be the same part through all V6 and 4 Cyl Camry models from 1993-2002. Should be easy enough to get from a wreckers.

This should be the part number:

https://www.amayama.com/en/search?q=90105-12274

[ZZT86]

Correct - Touring model was firmer setup similar to sportivo.

Edited April 8, 2017 by ZZT86

[virginia63]

21 hours ago, trentmeyer23 said:

I use http://www.rockauto.com/ quite regularly as well, it is a US market site. It has images to help, but you just need to double check they aren't a generic image.

There is the risk of parts not being compatible, but the prices are far cheaper for aftermarket parts. That being said I have only had 3 parts that were not correct, due to local manufacturing here in Australia being slightly different. 3 parts different out of hundreds isn't too bad.

The OEM part number you listed also matched with the US OEM parts manuals as well.

 

ok so i can safely assume the OEM is correct. when you got the wrong parts, how does it work with returns in terms of what portion of all shipping do they cover for sending the wrong part?

 

20 hours ago, trentmeyer23 said:

To be honest, I think it may even have the incorrect mount fitted previously. This may have been due to availability or incorrect parts supply. They are clearly interchangeable.

I just re-read that you said that the Touring was supposed to be the "comfy" model. This is actually not correct. The Touring was supposed to be the stiffer, more sporty version of the models, Toyota did their best to minimise the harshness. It was designed to catch the market from the Australian touring car series of the time. So the solid mount results you have been getting were probably correct.

As can be seen here:

http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring-services/reviews/car-reviews/toyota/camry-touring.htm

The correct bolt should be the same part through all V6 and 4 Cyl Camry models from 1993-2002. Should be easy enough to get from a wreckers.

This should be the part number:

https://www.amayama.com/en/search?q=90105-12274

Hey, wow you can imagine my surprise when i first read you said the correct mount should be solid. oh the irony of it all. i read those links you put up, i get that the interpretation of the 'touring' series was for an actual sturdier ride. i never gave it much thought in terms of it being a sporty car even though it does have a spoiler and heavy rims. the interior is indeed so bland, boring even. i assumed touring meant comfort over long distances. in either event none of those links actually specify the type of mount (unless i missed reading that). i looked back over all the mechanic receipts i got with the car from the previous owner who bought it new and nothing was ever done to or with the mounts, so the one that came out last week is the original. it turns out i've had the car for 5 full years, not 4. i bought it with 99k km on the clock, and it now has 171k. obviously it was originally sold off the showroom with a hydraulic mount. this second mechanic i went to the other day to check the noise coming from the bushes told me they sometimes put any old part they have lying around in them during assembly (as you say, maybe there was an availability shortage).

the question i have is; if it indeed meant to have a solid mount, then:
1) could the (hydro or solid) mounts for this model be different between auto & manual?
2) could the (hydro or solid) mounts for this series be different to the non touring-car mounts?

The reason I ask is because the cradle in the base is recessed and the solid mount I bought [as for MCV20 auto/manual] fits way closer to the edge than the hydro mount it had in there before. if the touring-specific 'solid' mounts are smaller then they would fit better inside that recess. when i searched for mounts i got the same results if I searched for MCV20R or MCV20R T/series (or Touring model). All the Camry sedans made between 98-02 have the MCV20R identifier whether touring or not. Most of the listings did not specify Touring in their description even when i had that in my search criteria, only MCV20. The only place that gave me a Touring model option was Mackay Consolidated, and the mount that came up for that was described as for auto and was a solid variety. No one except for ebay had any manual-specific mount results, and I have no confidence in listing accuracy from ebay sites.

as i said earlier it's actually handling quite well with this new mount, i don't mind the firmer feel. but this second mechanic i went to pointed out that the motor leans a little to the left so we're not sure if the mount height is correct. the mount specialist from sydney that said we could modify the mount and put it in also told me to take off the rubber glove that came with the solid mount and use the smaller rubber cap off the hydraulic mount because it has a larger top plate around the bolt hole. he also said it probably needs the extra height (several mm) that we get by using the cap with the top metal plate on it. it's hard to know because the hydro mount had collapsed after it was damaged and was quite lower than the new solid so we're not sure how high it was meant to be originally. i actually have pics of the two side by side so i'll upload them in a separate post.
 

[virginia63]

i don't know how to upload them, do i need to use an image host site? i didn't do that before. thanks.

edit: thanks for the link to the bolt too, i'm gonna need that if i get another mount. tomorrow i'll take a pic of the engine and how it leans. i'm not sure if that matters. i mean if this mount goes ok i can just keep it but i'm just not sure how close it is to the metal in the cradle and that's the only thing that worries me. if i can find out that the solid mounts for this series are actually smaller at the bottom then i may have something to think about, if instead they're all the same then the cradle recess is just meant to be that way and i should try to not worry about it. i know the hydro one is smaller at the bottom and it fits better. this can be seen in the pics of them side by side.

Edited April 9, 2017 by virginia63

[virginia63]

i went to that rock auto page and all the pics for the front mounts for 'auto transmission' look exactly like the hydro mount we just took out of my car. lol. smaller at the bottom and with the exact same top plate and locator pin on the external edge.

then the only listing with a pic for a 'standard transmission' (manual?) front mount looks like the solid mount i have in there now and with the locator pin by the bolt hole that doesn't fit anywhere in my manual car. complete contradiction, i'm confused.

Edited April 9, 2017 by virginia63

[trentmeyer23]

That was incredibly hard to read. Please keep posts shorter and more concise, it will make assisting you much easier.

I would use the mount you have, it should be fine. Once again don't just assume the mount wasn't replaced, just because you don't have anything saying that it was.

The transmission mount may be sagging, causing the lean to the left. There is a good chance that all of the mounts are somewhat worn if they are indeed the originals.

Buying parts from outside of Australia is at your own risk. It's a risk that has paid off for me, more times than not.

I have not seen the underside of the plate on the top of the specific mount that you have; however, it should have a recess for the locating pin(roll pin) or that pin can be removed.

[campbeam]

Your experience with that "letterbox flyer" mechanic sounds dreadful. I really questioned how that bolt got damaged. Guessing that maybe he tightened it instead of loosening it but when I work on my cars there always seems to be one bolt that can give you grief.

A few years ago, one Saturday afternoon, I noticed coolant around the top seal of the original [plastic top] radiator in my 1998 Camry. Closer inspection eventually revealed a crack in the plastic that only seeped/leaked when the engine was warmed up. Put that one down to end of useful life after 15 years for the plastic. Ended up buying a new replacement radiator on eBay and fitting it next weekend. As advertised, it was a perfect fit requiring no modifications. My other experience with a plastic top radiator was the hose inlet completely breaking loose after a few kms drive to the in-laws. I can't remember whether this happened before or after replacing the top hose. Anyway, you have to be careful about removing radiator hoses to avoid damage to the hoses, radiator or engine connections.

[trentmeyer23]

3 hours ago, campbeam said:

I really questioned how that bolt got damaged. Guessing that maybe he tightened it instead of loosening it but when I work on my cars there always seems to be one bolt that can give you grief.

They quite often seize in, especally if anti-seize is not used.

It is also made of a fairly low grade steel. I think less than grade 8.8.

[virginia63]

12 hours ago, trentmeyer23 said:

I have not seen the underside of the plate on the top of the specific mount that you have; however, it should have a recess for the locating pin(roll pin) or that pin can be removed.

so sorry about the long post. it's difficult to explain but i have gotten a few answers nonetheless. i'll get all the mounts checked at my next service.

the plate for my original mount that we have again used has a locating pin in the right spot so it went into the recess on the underside of the top mounting bracket properly. however we had to take the pin out of the new solid mount because that one got in the way. i think i said that in an earlier post that you may have missed because it has been a complicated topic. thanks.

[virginia63]

3 hours ago, campbeam said:

I really questioned how that bolt got damaged.

Thinking about it he said he didn't remove the bolt entirely but only unscrewed it half an inch to lever the engine up. he may not have had the motor entirely lined up straight when he went to do it up again after the job was finished, thereby threading the bolt and it seizing. he would have had to cut the top of the bolt away to get the mount out after that.

or, he unscrewed the top bolt the way he said, forgot to undo the bottom bracket nuts on the mount, levered the motor up and snapped the top off the centre bolt off as the motor pulled back out of place due to being loosened from the mount.

the fact that it's an old bolt as trentmeyer23 says may just have caused it to give way easier.

[campbeam]

3 hours ago, virginia63 said:

he said he didn't remove the bolt entirely but only unscrewed it half an inch to lever the engine up.

That explains the underlying cause for all this saga.

Not a seized bolt but the monkey at the end of the wrench causing lots of problems. .

[trentmeyer23]

3 hours ago, campbeam said:

Not a seized bolt but the monkey at the end of the wrench causing lots of problems. .

Bingo.

[virginia63]

lol yeah and i had to pay. 

as for my radiator $198 cause the top plastic plate had a crack in it where one of the screws go in. even though it's old and probably due to crack i wonder had it been another mechanic if i may hove gotten a few more months out of it before it went. fixed now.

got a call today from a bloke at mackay consolidated in melbourne who i'd contacted last week. he echoes what's said here in terms of the touring probably originating with a solid mount. however he thinks the auto and manual mounts may have size differences in the base, accounting for the recess in my cradle that doesn't rightly fit the mount i put in there now. he also tells me that of all the 50k registered v6 touring camrys in australia, 5% of them (that's 1000 only) are manual. he's going to try and source original part numbers for all my engine mounts in case i run into trouble in the future. very helpful man, i didn't even ask him to do that :)

[trentmeyer23]

You learn lessons in life. Unfortunately, this was an expensive one for you. 

I believe the OEM part number you have is correct. The searches I have done, show that part number for all MCV20 V6 manual models regardless of build country. It is not Touring specific.