PCV valve Varnish 30k oil change

[SA22C-RX]

Hi all. 

This is my 3rd Aurion. 2 GSV40 and now a GSV50. I do most mechanical work myself. 2 back operations have slowed that down recently but anyway on with my story. 

I recently purchased a 2014 prodigy. 61000kms.

Started life as a fleet car and then sold privately at 8000kms to the owner before me who was an elderly gentleman. 

The cars in fairly good condition. His service history is not so much. Looks as if the oil was was changed at 8000, 30000 and 60000. There are 2 other services 11k and 20k but no information. 

So I'm thinking at worst which I knew before buying, that it's possibly gone 30k without an oil change. Now this is not 100% but is definitely possible. 

The old fellah had failing health and I bought the car off the dealership thst acquired it for him when he wanted one back in 2015 at 8000kms. He's apparently become ill so his family sold it back to the dealership he bought it from. Good country town ethics. Anyway so they didn't really want to call the old fellah to ask about the missing 45000 service. The dealership rang the other mechanic in the area and he had also not done it. 

So let's just assume it was done at 8000, 30000 and 60000. 

I have not pulled the valve cover off bank 2 yet but I took off the PCV valve and it looks as followed.

{SEE PICTURES) 

I put my pinky in the plug hole too and felt around, it definitely has a sticky varbish under the valve cover, just like you can see on the head of the PCV valve. Actual valve is clear and opening and closing freely. 

I've never used an engine flush before, that's why I'm here asking questions. 

1) Should I pull the valve cover off too properly inspect before deciding to use an engine oil flush like Nulon for example?

2) From the pic of the PCV, would you consider this amount of varnish to be worth doing an engine oil flush? 

3) Anyone had any bad experiences with oil flushes afterwards, like noisy lifters or oil leaks? 

The car blows no smoke and runs great but within 500km of the oil change from the dealership I can see the oil starting to become dirty. Light brownish. Not black. But it shouldn't be this dirty already IMO. 

4) So is varnish worth clearing or not? What do you think 😃

I love my 2gr-fe's that's why I buy these vehicles. Not for the looks of course 😲😉. 

So any help on a new found topic for me would be greatly appreciated. 

I of course will be doing regular oil changes that I now own it and I just want to give it its best life from here on in, a clean slate if that makes sense. I won't deny I do enjoy putting my foot down quite often, so I try to give my engines the best life I can with regular servicing and qaulity fuel. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by SA22C-RX

[campbeam]

The good news is that the engine is not blowing smoke. The bad news is that2GR-FE engine is more prone to oil sludge build up compared to other modern engines. Regular oil and filter cartridge changes using quality brand oils are absolutely essential. If you want a longer oil change interval [7-10K kms] then definitely use a full synthetic oil. Your choice whether you use 5W-30 or 5W-40.

In your case, I would be assuming the oil sludge is happening/has happened but not yet serious.

1.       If the engine was blowing smoke, then definitely remove the valve cover and clean the baffles in the cover leading to the PCV. Otherwise, I would be inclined to leave it alone.

2.       Definitely clean the PCV valve. Every time that I do an oil change, I do an engine flush using diesel. Essentially, drop the engine, replace with about 5 litres of diesel then idle engine for 5-10minutes.

3.       No bad experiences with oil flushes using the diesel or commercial products [a few times]. Been doing this on my Aurion for the past 5 years. Been doing the diesel as an engine flush for 40+years on my various vehicles. In recent years, I have also added to the engine oil 500ml of diesel and later changed to adding 500ml of ATF to help desludge my engine.

4.       Definitely clean the PCV valve.

 

I recently did an engine oil change using 5W-40 full synthetic oil. After about 700 kms, it has already changed to light golden colour;.so not exactly happy. Added some ATF to the oil, cleaned the PCV valve and also installed an oil catch can together with the existing inline filter and oil separator.  If you search, you will find the recent post with photos of this installation. Highly recommend adding either an oil catch can and/or an oil separator for your consideration.

[SA22C-RX]

Thanks alot for the in depth reply. Greatly appreciated. I guess I'll run a flush soon at 63,000 and then 65,000, then a normal oil change at 70. Its sitting on 61.9 now. That's my plan of attack if I decide to flush. 

Tbh I'm still in 2 minds about it. You hear every now and again after being flushed some issues arise. It's usually with engines that have severe sludge, mine does not, but it's still something I want to avoid. 

If I don't flush, I'm just gunna do oil n filter changes at 63, 65 and 70 and see how the oil fairs after each. Thanks again 👍

[SA22C-RX]

Can't believe you've put a catch can on the old 2GR 🤣👍💪

[SA22C-RX]

How do you go about cleaning your PCV valve? Hot steam or kerosene? Do you soak it? Not better to just replace? =] 

[SA22C-RX]

And to clarify you run 5L of diesel only whilst your car idles as for 15 mins to clean the engine? No oil mixed at all? 

[campbeam]

I use a spray can of degreaser to clean the PCV valve. Spray into the PCV valve, give it a few shakes then repeat. 

I idle the engine for 5 minutes to 10 minutes using the diesel to flush/clean the engine. I also drain the oil out of the filter housing cartridge as well. Main reason is that I can then tell how dirty the diesel gets from cleaning the internals of the engine. Anyway the oil capacity of the 2GR-FE engine is 6.5 litres but only uses 6.1 litres for an oil change. The other 0.4litres is presumably in the various oil lines.

My thinking is that diesel is a light oil so there is enough lubrication for idling purposes for a short time.

Like myself, you may have seen a YouTube video where the person has added oil with the diesel when flushing the engine. Just a different line of thinking, perhaps a more cautious approach.

[SA22C-RX]

Awesome. Thanks again for the insight 🤙

[Tony Prodigy]

If you have time, remove the valve cover to get a better look. It may just have more varnish than sludge. Just wondering what oil they were using beforehand too. If it's not sludged up, that may indicate they used a decent synthetic oil but the service interval was longer, hence the varnish.

I might remove and inspect my PCV and compare with the colour of yours there Nathan. My 2012 has just under 119K now and it has a full service history to date. I continued with the servicing when I purchased it at 40K and before this it was dealer serviced. 

Let us know how you go 

[campbeam]

Tony, just as a benchmark, how long after an oil change is it before the oil changes colour to a light golden colour.

I usually look at the both the dipstick and inside the valve cover where there is a guard near the oil filler cap opening. 

 

[Tony Prodigy]

3 minutes ago, campbeam said:

just as a benchmark, how long after an oil change is it before the oil changes colour to a light golden colour

To be honest Ashley, I've never look at the dipstick until it's oil service time. I know I should be checking more regularly because I know my engine is clean, but I will do this after the next one. It's due at 124K. That's roughly 10k or less between services. The service book calls for service intervals of 15k if I remember correctly. That's too long for my liking. I may even do it at 120K to even up the ledger and then follow the 10k rule again.

 

[SA22C-RX]

6 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

If you have time, remove the valve cover to get a better look. It may just have more varnish than sludge. Just wondering what oil they were using beforehand too. If it's not sludged up, that may indicate they used a decent synthetic oil but the service interval was longer, hence the varnish.

I might remove and inspect my PCV and compare with the colour of yours there Nathan. My 2012 has just under 119K now and it has a full service history to date. I continued with the servicing when I purchased it at 40K and before this it was dealer serviced. 

Let us know how you go 

Thanks Tony that would be great for a comparison, if you have time over the weekend 👍. Yeah I'll be doing 10k intervals and hpr 5 like all the Toyotas I've owned. Still in 2 minds about a flush, or 2, so I'll just see what happens. Keen to see your PCV valve and if there is any varnish on the head of it like mine. Guaranteed the head of the engine is the same. 

[SA22C-RX]

4 hours ago, campbeam said:

Tony, just as a benchmark, how long after an oil change is it before the oil changes colour to a light golden colour.

I usually look at the both the dipstick and inside the valve cover where there is a guard near the oil filler cap opening. 

 

I may have jumped the gun a little in the colour of mine, after about 700kms. Its still golden. I'm going to monitor for a bit and see how it goes. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by SA22C-RX

[SA22C-RX]

Calls me crazy buy smells like Penrite in there now 🤣😜. Who knows what oil it's had in its life so far. 

[Tony Prodigy]

3 minutes ago, SA22C-RX said:

smells like Penrite in there now 🤣😜

Does Penrite have a certain aroma ??

I've been using Nulon and will be switching over to Penrite after I conclude the last batch of Nulon 5w-30 I have in stock and  I'll have to give it the sniff test to see for myself. 

 

[SA22C-RX]

I personally think it does. Maybe just from mineral days with rotaries. But yeah Penrite for me with my cars. Keen to see your PCV valve if you get a chance on the weekend 👍

[campbeam]

On 7/23/2020 at 7:39 PM, campbeam said:

You may have seen a YouTube video where the person has added oil with the diesel when flushing the engine.

I have seen this YouTube video before and had another viewing. Interesting because he is so NOT aware of how badly sludged up the engine was. Notice the amount of accumulated sludge on the oil filter cartridge. Also in his commentary towards the end, he mentioned about driving on the highway and getting a puff of smoke upon acceleration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZOZvFlSj2M

He also mentioned about 7000 kms since the previous oil change. There is no mention about what oil he ends up using but the amount of accumulated oil sludge indicates that he really should be going for a shorter oil change interval. It would have been interesting to see the state of the PCV valve which probably could have done with a clean.

[campbeam]

Still trying to work out how long the engine oil has not been changed in this YouTube video. Worst estimate is 65K but also possibly in the 45K-50K range. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjwNoLyr3SM

 

[Tony Prodigy]

33 minutes ago, campbeam said:

Still trying to work out how long the engine oil has not been changed in this YouTube video. Worst estimate is 65K but also possibly in the 45K-50K range. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjwNoLyr3SM

 

OMG !! I have never seen anything that bad. The car has 170K on it and I too wonder when it was last serviced. Can people really be that stupid ? 

Update: at 3:33 he mentions that the owner hasn't serviced it for 40K but that was when it read 135k on the service indicator so in fact it's more closer to last being serviced at 125k so that makes it ~45k. You were close Ash. 

Did you see the state of the oil filter ?? WOW !!!

Edited July 28, 2020 by Tony Prodigy

[Tony Prodigy]

They should put that oil filter in the Auto Museum of stupidity. 

[SA22C-RX]

Hey Tony. How was your weekend? I guess you haven't been bothered to unscrew your PCV valve out yet? Still keen to see the head of yours, if it's similar to mine with the sticky varnish or not, with your perfect oil change record and all 😉. 

Seeing as you and Campbeam are talking about sludge, check out this pic, I took a screenshot from a video. I know 2GR's are renowned for sludge with neglect but holy moly.

That's a 2GR... 

 

Edit: I just clicked your video link. I seen that video just before my first post on here a week ago. Its insane aye 😂

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by SA22C-RX

[campbeam]

1 hour ago, SA22C-RX said:

check out this pic, I took a screenshot from a video. I know 2GR's are renowned for sludge with neglect but holy moly.

Excellent pickup. You have got some good eagle eyes.  Your snapshot is at the 3:59 mark of the YouTube video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0cf102I0Cg  

I was wondering about what oil he had been using in the past and the oil change interval. At the 2:12 mark of the video, looks like he is going to refill with Nulon full synthetic 5W-30. I reckon that within 100kms that new oil will be badly contaminated with dissolved oil sludge. 

I bought my 2006 Aurion on eBay from a vehicle wholesaler advertised as blowing smoke on startup with 165K on the odometer. My engine was never that badly sludged in comparison with that video snapshot. For the past 4 years, I have been avoiding having to remove the valve cover and been doing lots of oil changes to desludge the engine. Interesting because my Aurion now has over 216K on the odometer and I reckon that the valve train has no sludge.

Knowing what I know now, on that badly sludged up engine in the YouTube video, I would be removing the front valve cover and the engine sump to desludge the engine. Oil pickup assembly would need to be thoroughly cleaned. Probably then fill up with diesel and idle for 10 minutes. Repeat with new diesel. Eventually new engine oil and oil filter cartridge. Drive for about a week then remove and clean the oil filter cartridge. Consider whether engine oil should also be changed. 

 

[SA22C-RX]

Yeah badly. The sludge is insane. I'd be rinsing the engine with kerosene or diesel as you do. Can't imagine how the head looked. 

[Tony Prodigy]

10 hours ago, SA22C-RX said:

Hey Tony. How was your weekend? I guess you haven't been bothered to unscrew your PCV valve out yet? Still keen to see the head of yours, if it's similar to mine with the sticky varnish or not, with your perfect oil change record and all 😉. 

Hello mate. My weekend was ok. We had too much rain so not much activity could be done outside. 

Don't worry, I'll try and get to the PCV as soon as I can. By the time wifey gets home ( It's her daily) through the week it's getting dark and it makes it hard to work outside. 

I'll make a mental note to do it this Saturday morning and post some pics up.

Cheers mate 

[SA22C-RX]

Legend mate, cheers!