Engine mounts

[Zerko]

2007 SX6. I've got a slight knock and I've sussed it out to be engine mounts. Putting the car in Drive and giving it a slight rev whilst foot is on brake can replicate the noise. Last service, I noticed the top stay (dogbone) was split, so I just replaced that, but I'm sure the other mounts are also shot now.

Has anyone done mounts before? Left and right look easy enough.

Is the front one ACM (Active Control Mount) with the fluid dampening? Do these actually fail like rubber mounts or more likely the hoses or electronics failing? 

[Tony Prodigy]

20 hours ago, Zerko said:

Is the front one ACM (Active Control Mount) with the fluid dampening?

I haven't done engine mounts as yet for my 50 series and I'm unsure if they differ on the 40.

I believe they are all fluid damped mounts.(hydraulic),including the ACM. The dog bone isn't obviously.

There are plenty on ebay.

 

 

[campbeam]

I have not yet had to replace the engine mounts on my 2006 Aurion now with about 219K on the odometer. I bought it used with about 165K on the odometer.

No problems with the top engine mount although I have been intending to reinforce it with Sikaflex.

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sikaflex-sikaflex-auto-adhesive---227-150ml/284175.html#q=sikaflex&lang=en_AU&start=4

[Zerko]

So I just had a look to see if the lower front mount is ACM and it is. It has the vacuum and electrical coming off it. I don't believe this one fails in terms of rubber perishing, but may fail by split vacuum lines or electrical fault or possibly the diaphragm in it.

The two other mounts do not have vacuum lines going to them so I don't think they are ACM nor have fluid in them. We'll see when I pull them out in the next few days.

[nzzr6]

Front mount is vacuum controlled, if you follow the lines they go back to the air intake. I wouldn't think that would be much of a problem

[Tony Prodigy]

11 hours ago, Zerko said:

The two other mounts do not have vacuum lines going to them so I don't think they are ACM nor have fluid in them. We'll see when I pull them out in the next few days.

I'd be interested to see this too. I'll stand corrected on the front ACM mount, but I believe the others are fluid filled ( sealed units). Perhaps this is why the Aurion is so smooth ? The engine vibrations are dampened via the engine mounts.

I had a quick look at replacement ones on ebay. Take a look at these and have a read in the description, primarily the TruPro mounts. I'd really be interested to see the real world result of fluid vs rigid mounts, especially for the Aurion. Would it alter its smooth characteristic I wonder..

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Front-Engine-Mount-For-TOYOTA-Aurion-GSV40R-GSV50R-2GRFE-Auto/142732246962?fits=Model%3AAurion|Make%3AToyota&hash=item213b813fb2:g:Ka8AAOSwyLpdXU8l:sc:AU_Regular!2148!AU!-1

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RH-Engine-Mount-For-TOYOTA-Aurion-GSV40R-GSV50R-2GRFE-Auto-High-quality/152956415324?fits=Model%3AAurion|Make%3AToyota&hash=item239ce9ad5c:g:L9QAAOSw0fJdXU8p:sc:AU_Regular!2148!AU!-1

Complete Listings
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/m.html?_odkw=&fits=Model%3AAurion|Make%3AToyota&_ssn=superspares&hash=item211639bdc1%3Ag%3Ae0IAAOSwQypdXSJH%3Asc%3AAU_Regular!2148!AU!-1&item=142106803649&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.XAurion+engine+mount.TRS0&_nkw=Aurion+engine+mount&_sacat=0

Edited July 27, 2020 by Tony Prodigy

[Zerko]

So... I went to pull out the lower engine mounts, but when I went to undo the top dogbone, one of the bolts wasn't done up real tight. I thought, that wouldn't have helped. Anyway, I was already half way through. Up on jack stands, wheels were off, underbody tray was off, so I decided to pull out the lower right mount anyway to inspect it. The clunk was coming from the RHS and you could bring it on with throttle on and off. I hadn't bought mounts yet, so I thought I'd better make sure it was that. 

The mount was fine. Not split. Maybe not quite as stiff as new, but couldn't see anything wrong with it. It has rubber that the top, not sure if the bottom is fluid filled. Couldn't tell by shaking it. Wasn't leaking at all.

Didn't pull out the centre or left, but undid the bolts to get the right one out.

Put it all back together (with everything tight - didn't bother getting the torque wrench out), went for a test drive and all is good. No clunk. Wasted a couple of hours that would have been spent on watching TV series anyway.

[campbeam]

1 hour ago, Zerko said:

Put it all back together (with everything tight - didn't bother getting the torque wrench out), went for a test drive and all is good. No clunk. Wasted a couple of hours that would have been spent on watching TV series anyway.

Interesting viewpoint but it all depends upon the TV series etc.

I would much rather be tracking down and resolving that clunking noise. In fact, I would be rather pleased that it was fixed or annoyed if it was caused by my stuff up. Better to tighten a few bolts now rather than have to be replacing parts at a later date. Anyway,these days, I spend more time looking at YouTube videos than watching TV.

[Tony Prodigy]

32 minutes ago, campbeam said:

Anyway,these days, I spend more time looking at YouTube videos than watching TV.

Haha, I'm the same unless I am watching an excellent TV series, usually a HBO or Netflix original..

Jack, good to hear you didn't find anything significant. Your time wasn't wasted mate. It's better to get in there and poke around, familiarise yourself with the inner workings of your car and making sure it's safe. Best way to learn. I'm sure that as my car ages, it will require more wrenching by me, which will inevitably give me more learning experiences. Thank God for you tube.

Looks like the loose dog bone mount may have been the culprit. I'll have to check mine too. Things can get loose over time and the occasional once over with a socket set is advisable. 

I am yet to know if they are in fact fluid filled. Part of me thinks they are, but I'll try and find out.

[nzzr6]

1 hour ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Haha, I'm the same unless I am watching an excellent TV series, usually a HBO or Netflix original..

Jack, good to hear you didn't find anything significant. Your time wasn't wasted mate. It's better to get in there and poke around, familiarise yourself with the inner workings of your car and making sure it's safe. Best way to learn. I'm sure that as my car ages, it will require more wrenching by me, which will inevitably give me more learning experiences. Thank God for you tube.

Looks like the loose dog bone mount may have been the culprit. I'll have to check mine too. Things can get loose over time and the occasional once over with a socket set is advisable. 

I am yet to know if they are in fact fluid filled. Part of me thinks they are, but I'll try and find out.

House of Cards is excellent. Chernobyl, The Pacific, Band of Brothers.... among the best TV series out there 

[Tony Prodigy]

58 minutes ago, nzzr6 said:

House of Cards is excellent. Chernobyl, The Pacific, Band of Brothers.... among the best TV series out there 

Better Call Saul, Snowfall, Animal Kingdom, Foyle's War, Boardwalk Empire, Ozark, Chuck..to name a few..

[Zerko]

Thanks guys. I'm glad it was minor. I really should have checked the dog bone first. Nothing wasted really. Now I know how to do something else.

Yeah I find I watch a lot more YouTube, too. Funnily enough, people fixing stuff. I like the car guys that rebuild wrecks like Goonzquad and Vtuned. 

As for TV eps - West World, Ozark, Billions, Altered Carbon.

[Tony Prodigy]

Good outcome Jack. Fancy the bolt being loose on the dog bone. They are usually tightened to spec from factory and that's quite tight. For it to come loose is strange.

I agree with the you-tube thing too mate. It's always a great learning tool for us and in general watching those you mentioned rebuild cars that otherwise should've been binned.

One in particular was by a you tuber called DIY Gang. He fully rebuilt a Dodge Hellcat that was burned to a crisp. The car was toast, with the roof caved in etc. We all though he was mad, but he pulled it off ! Talk about hard work, OMG !

Watch this:

 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Tony Prodigy

[nzzr6]

2 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Good outcome Jack. Fancy the bolt being loose on the dog bone. They are usually tightened to spec from factory and that's quite tight. For it to come loose is strange.

I agree with the you-tube thing too mate. It's always a great learning tool for us and in general watching those you mentioned rebuild cars that otherwise should've been binned.

One in particular was by a you tuber called DIY Gang. He fully rebuilt a Dodge Hellcat that was burned to a crisp. The car was toast, with the roof caved in etc. We all though he was mad, but he pulled it off ! Talk about hard work, OMG !

Watch this:

 

 

Have gotten into the habit of using a paint marker to mark bolts when i torque them, i find that makes it easy to see at a glance whether a bolt has backed itself out

[campbeam]

3 hours ago, nzzr6 said:

Have gotten into the habit of using a paint marker to mark bolts when i torque them, i find that makes it easy to see at a glance whether a bolt has backed itself out

Good habit which I should adopt. It will also make it easy for me to see which bolts have been properly torqued instead of my usual "gut en titen" german spec.

[Zerko]

On 8/4/2020 at 5:02 AM, Tony Prodigy said:

Good outcome Jack. Fancy the bolt being loose on the dog bone. They are usually tightened to spec from factory and that's quite tight. For it to come loose is strange.

It was totally my fault. I replaced that part a month or so ago. Should have gotten out the torque wrench.

On 8/4/2020 at 8:03 AM, nzzr6 said:

Have gotten into the habit of using a paint marker to mark bolts when i torque them, i find that makes it easy to see at a glance whether a bolt has backed itself out

Good idea.

[campbeam]

On 7/27/2020 at 1:27 PM, campbeam said:

I have not yet had to replace the engine mounts on my 2006 Aurion now with about 219K on the odometer. I bought it used with about 165K on the odometer.

No problems with the top engine mount although I have been intending to reinforce it with Sikaflex.

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sikaflex-sikaflex-auto-adhesive---227-150ml/284175.html#q=sikaflex&lang=en_AU&start=4

Finally made the effort last weekend and reinforced the top right engine mount with Sikaflex 227. Removed this part so that it would be easier to apply the Sikaflex to both sides of the rubber bushing. I did notice some fine hairline cracks on one side of the bushing so very worthwhile doing this Sikaflex application. Sikaflex was left to cure for most of the day before driving that evening.

Seeing that it was not raining this afternoon, I checked the mount and revved the engine a few times. Previously there was some engine movement.

Now there is none so quite impressed with the difference. Nice bit of preventative maintenance so no need to replace that part. 

[Tony Prodigy]

Nice DIY preventative maintenance Ashley. Sikaflex is an excellent product, especially their polyurethane. It should last a very long time.

You just need to make sure all surfaces are super clean for best possible adhesion.

[campbeam]

As per the Product Sheets, Sikaflex 227 has a hardness rating of 45. In comparison, Sikaflex 252 has a hardness rating of 50 but is more expensive [$20.35 vs $34.35 current prices at Bunnings. After using Sikaflex 227, there is no vibration in the steering wheel or vibration in the chassis.

Very different matter when I fitted solid polyurethane bushings into an engine mount in another vehicle about 7 years ago. Ended up having to drill holes into that bushing to reduce the vibration in the chassis and the cabin. 

[Tony Prodigy]

10 hours ago, campbeam said:

As per the Product Sheets, Sikaflex 227 has a hardness rating of 45. In comparison, Sikaflex 252 has a hardness rating of 50 but is more expensive [$20.35 vs $34.35 current prices at Bunnings. After using Sikaflex 227, there is no vibration in the steering wheel or vibration in the chassis.

Very different matter when I fitted solid polyurethane bushings into an engine mount in another vehicle about 7 years ago. Ended up having to drill holes into that bushing to reduce the vibration in the chassis and the cabin. 

Looks like a good trade off then using the Sikaflex to bolster the bushing rather than have solid poly bushes. As you said, Poly bushed tend to transmit vibration more readily as opposed to the softer rubber. Sikaflex, still having that damping and solidifying effect seems to be best of both worlds. Good idea. I'm going to have a look into this because my bushings have tiny hairline crack developing in them too. Can't hurt to try I guess. If I have to replace the bushings then so be it. But I will definitely try the Sika trick. 

[campbeam]

Even if you end up replacing engine mounts or bushings, still pays to reinforce the new ones with Sikaflex.

A 150ml squeeze tube of Sikaflex is sufficient to do both the engine mount and the 2 lower control arm bushings.

It is possible to do the engine mount insitu. I just found it easier to remove the engine mount and then use the rubber covers to force/sqeeze the Sikaflex into the open spaces of the bushing.

As for the lower control arm bushings, it is easier to Sikaflex them insitu even though it is harder to access the rear opening of the bushing. Removing the lower control arms will make it easier to completely Sikaflex the bushing but it may affect the wheel alignment.

[Tony Prodigy]

12 hours ago, campbeam said:

Even if you end up replacing engine mounts or bushings, still pays to reinforce the new ones with Sikaflex.

I agree. It would have to be done anyway at some point so may as well do it right off the bat.

12 hours ago, campbeam said:

A 150ml squeeze tube of Sikaflex is sufficient to do both the engine mount and the 2 lower control arm bushings.

Thanks

12 hours ago, campbeam said:

It is possible to do the engine mount insitu. I just found it easier to remove the engine mount and then use the rubber covers to force/sqeeze the Sikaflex into the open spaces of the bushing.

As for the lower control arm bushings, it is easier to Sikaflex them insitu even though it is harder to access the rear opening of the bushing. Removing the lower control arms will make it easier to completely Sikaflex the bushing but it may affect the wheel alignment.

I'd definitely leave the lower control arms in place. Too much work just to sikaflex them. If you were going to all that trouble you may as well replace them and sika them at the same time.

[nzzr6]

I used to have this wheel vibration at 110 km/h, had the wheels balanced twice and new CV axles. Couple days ago I changed my transmission filter which meant dropping the pan, and undoing the trans mount so I could jack it up. Did the job, put everything back together and retightened the engine mounts I took off. Now theres no vibration?? Would a loose or not tight enough engine mount cause wheel vibration? 

[Tony Prodigy]

55 minutes ago, nzzr6 said:

Would a loose or not tight enough engine mount cause wheel vibration?

That's very possible because the engine mount can be seen as an integral piece in the chassis and if there was some degree of "looseness" then I would believe it would amplify its way around and induce some vibration into the drivetrain. 

Was it easy to undo the engine mount nuts ? Did you torque them to spec or just a good old fashioned put yer back into it ?

[campbeam]

43 minutes ago, nzzr6 said:

Couple days ago I changed my transmission filter which meant dropping the pan, and undoing the trans mount so I could jack it up.

I spent a Saturday afternoon and a frustrating hour to get that pesky bolt undone back in 2015

I have put the following post on October 2017 [refer page 4] to the test and it works. Now just a simple task to put the vehicle up on ramps then access that bolt without having to undo the transmission mount and jack it up for access to that bolt. 

 

 Loose engine mounts can be one cause for feeling vibrations in the steering wheel.