MWR now selling stage 2&3 Piper cams for 2ZZ

[Orbit]

I'm just back from my tuner, and the cams are mounted !

I do have photo's but for some reason I can not upload them.

I only had the chanse to drive like 50 km's in heavy traffic and light rain so this is way to soon too conclude anything on the cams.

The engine runs a bit nervous stationary but it doesn't stall and at the end of the drive it already seamed a lot more stable. The kick in the ***** at 6k is almost completely gone thus making it feel a lot slower to drive. I do am 100% shure it puls harder in high cam then before and there is no torque hole before it so logicaly it puls a lot harder betwean 4k and 6k than before . It just feels slower.

I hope it dries up later this evening so i can do some preleminary runs with the G-Tech. It will take some time to get used to because the car feels totaly different.

Someone can help to post the pictures? This is the error i get:

The requested file upload failed because suitable permissions have not been enabled on the 'uploads' directory. Please contact the board administrator and inform them of this error.

[Orbit]

will you be kind enough to share how much did the cams and installation set you back??

The cams will cost me 960€ and installing them another 120€.

It shure isn't the cheapest shop but it has a killer reputation and they simply gave me confidence that it will go smooth.

I actualy payed some more, installing them took some more time then estimated and there were importtaxes to be payed. It totaled at 1233€ installed.

[BigBum]

[Orbit]

Thx BigBum, they only took 5 pictures but then again, there is not to much to see also :)

Anyway, it is clearly my car and that is what I needed, so noone can say i'm lying when i say the cams are in.

[Orbit]

Thx BigBum, they only took 5 pictures but then again, there is not to much to see also :)

Anyway, it is clearly my car and that is what I needed, so noone can say i'm lying when i say the cams are in.

Just back with some numbers.

0-60 : 7.3 (from 7.6)

1/4 : 15.3 (from 16.1)

I'm a bit dissapointed in the 0-60 but the 1/4 is greatly aproved. It just shows I suck at launching :D SPeed @ 1/4 was about 92 mph where before it was 100+

What does it mean to have lower finish speed?

And a last question, how much km's would I need for the ECU to fully relearn itself? Stationary now is pretty fine, small woble now and then but noone would even notice. Does that mean the ECU alread has relearnd?

[SuperDave]

I guess this thread is worth a bump with MWR now selling their stage 3 cams (different grind to Piper, but they won't give specs).

They are a lot cheaper than the Piper cams too; 895usd for Piper vs 650usd for mwr. If anyone is interested it costs about 93-99usd for shipping to Australia.

http://store.monkeywrenchracing.com/produc...roducts_id=1146

[whitestivo]

you telling me they run those came on stock ecu?

i thought i read even with the piper stage 2 you would need a PFC

whitestivo

[Suprathai]

interesting...

[and1]

Hell yes this is so on the wish list!!

Now to get those valves and springs too

[SuperDave]

you telling me they run those came on stock ecu?

i thought i read even with the piper stage 2 you would need a PFC

whitestivo

The stock ECU can run the cams, but the PowerFC allows you to xtract the full amount from them.

MWR claim that these cams have low enough lift to not require an upgraded valvetrain if redline is put at 8200rpm.

[whitestivo]

If i'm reading the graph correctly, then the torque missing between 4000-6000rpm is filled by these cams, which is one of the advantages of the power fc. I'm not sure how this works when the stock ECU retards it at this point.

So for $1000 I can see the graph, you think this will put me into the 1.04's? Someone like Chas4 can give me an idea of install time, they suggest 2 hours, I'd want to check that

Then there is the other intake manifold mod from the US, wonder what happened to that? it was a little more expensive, but not sure on the comparable gains.

whitestivo

[SuperDave]

So for $1000 I can see the graph, you think this will put me into the 1.04's? Someone like Chas4 can give me an idea of install time, they suggest 2 hours, I'd want to check that

2 hours is a bit optimistic in my opinion; closer to 6-8 hours in reality. Hardest part is swapping the VVT gear over to the other cam. Most time consuming part is checking the valve clearance.

I doubt you will gain 1s with a power increase like that.

The PPE intake manifold is still in R&D, no word on the MWR one for a while (but MWR don't tend to leak info).

[xoom]

while ur in there u might as well take care of the valves, valve springs, oil pump etc and stretch its legs out to over 9000 rpms ;-)

[SuperDave]

while ur in there u might as well take care of the valves, valve springs, oil pump etc and stretch its legs out to over 9000 rpms ;-)

Plus the MWR valves have a slightly higher flow rate than the stocko ones, and they have flat faced valves to increase the compression ratio slightly. Might help recover some of the dynamic compression lost with the longer duration camshafts ;)

So when are you taking your car to 9000rpm Bill? :P

[xoom]

what makes u think it hasnt been there ;)

but i got no need to do it ...... more for all those N/A fellas that want to hear the roar of the engine ..... all i hear up top is the spooling/spinning of the turbo

either way no need to push it since im making more power & torque @ 5K rpms than an n/a setup spinning to 9K rpms ;) :P ;) :P

[SuperDave]

It was a joke refering to your maxed out injectors before 8000rpm from a couple years back :P

[xoom]

It was a joke refering to your maxed out injectors before 8000rpm from a couple years back :P

hahahahah good one ..... well with the 21+ psi now the 630's are also maxing out hence the 800's i now have sitting on the shelf

[SuperDave]

It was a joke refering to your maxed out injectors before 8000rpm from a couple years back :P

hahahahah good one ..... well with the 21+ psi now the 630's are also maxing out hence the 800's i now have sitting on the shelf

Just put 1500's in

Also, I had the wrong price for shipping above, it's actually 93-99usd, I accidentally put 2 items in the shopping cart before I checked the shipping costs. Thought it seemed a bit expensive.

[and1]

It was a joke refering to your maxed out injectors before 8000rpm from a couple years back :P

hahahahah good one ..... well with the 21+ psi now the 630's are also maxing out hence the 800's i now have sitting on the shelf

Just put 1500's in

Also, I had the wrong price for shipping above, it's actually 93-99usd, I accidentally put 2 items in the shopping cart before I checked the shipping costs. Thought it seemed a bit expensive.

Funny that.

I added cams, valves and springs and it was still cheaper than the shipping price you first quoted.

Either way still damn cheap cams. Still waiting on Reds dynos...

[SuperDave]

Either way still damn cheap cams. Still waiting on Reds dynos...

Hopefully he does the runs from 2000rpm.

I want to know the specs on them, one can hardly make an informed choice without that information.

[SuperDave]

Redliner has finished tuning the cams http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=311495

[whitestivo]

i certainly don't see the gains I saw on the other dyno graph?

whitestivo

[SuperDave]

The MWR graphs were at a different scale which makes the gains look better, they do it for all their dynos so fairs fair.

But Redliner did that against a stock cam, ~6 whp gain peak seems kinda low. He does offer the excuse the humidity was about 20% higher.

[Mole]

Wasn't that comparison against stage 3 Pipers?

Edit: Nvm it wasnt. Ew. Hope he does a bit more work on them.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Mole

[terryo]

gains of only a few HP like this are not reliably measured on any chassis dyno I have ever used. Changes to engine temperature alone can make that sort of difference, let alone trying to compensate for atmospheric changes.

We can measure small changes like this on our engine dyno, but "shoot-out" mode like shown, is not a useful measure of real world performance. Acceleration runs on the dyno are a better test, and of course, on road/track results are all that really count

I am always suspicious when a retailer wont release cam profile details, and in any case, very few businesses own a cam grinder. Piper however, design and make cams and they are a +30 year player, so you have real background to rely on.

Doing a set of cams plus shimming can take all day, anyone who reckons they can do it properly in 2 hrs should come work for me.