Aurion Speed Needle

[aurion_zr6]

Hey guys

Have had my aurion for about 6 months and absolutely loving them

however yesterday i ran into some trouble ...so i will start with my two questions

1) there was a mobile speed camera with flash on the opposite side of the road to me , can you get caught?

2) the aurion speed needle is quite thick so it would be awesome if someone could tell me when you are actually on sixty because the needle doesnt match up as it is to thick, so is it at the start of the needle or end of the needle that touches the "60" line, when you are travelling 60

3) Whats the innaccuracy of the aurion speeedometer vs actual speed....2-3 kmh?

Thanks guys

[nele]

hey dude,

1. Working through a bit of logic I would say no you cant get caught due to the following;

- Camera Focus is set most likely to capture closer vehicles; and

- Even if the camera has recognised your speed and flashed it still would not capture you rego plate as you would be completely side on to the camera, unless the camera has been positioned to see your *****, then your screwed.

2&3. Having tested my speed on the Geelong Freeway I would say its about 2-3km slower than displayed speed.

I wouldn't worry too much, only if the speed camera has been positioned to see your tail and if you saw a flash. Hope this helps

[DJKOR]

Sorry nele, gotta correct you there. I lost 4 points off my licence with a camera unit parked on the other side of a two way road with two lanes each side. Those camera units are getting better I think.

To aurion_zr6, haven't you seen Stealth's signature, LOL. He seems to be promotion a site for challenging speeding fines. As for the accuracy of the gauge, mine is off (showing a speed slower than actual) by about 3km/h at 60 and by about 4km/h at 100. I never really travel on the limit, so I haven't experimented with the best point to have the needle. As a rule of thumb, having the left edge of the needle against the right edge of the speed marking should keep you in line with the true speed (each case can vary).

Edit: Here is what I got in the mail. Now I may not have been the furthermost away from the camera, but I have no doubt that the camera would be able to capture the other lane as well. Don't ask how I didn't see the camera unit. Long story on that one.

[DJKOR]

*Double post. The problem with posting from a phone. Why can't work unblock forum access.*

[aurion_zr6]

thanks guys for the reply's

hmmmmm im pretty sure guys im safe with with the 2-3 kmh speedo allowance and then the further 3kmh allowance ...lol ....how long does it take to get the fine in the mail?

[JIN]

Hey guys

Have had my aurion for about 6 months and absolutely loving them

however yesterday i ran into some trouble ...so i will start with my two questions

1) there was a mobile speed camera with flash on the opposite side of the road to me , can you get caught?

2) the aurion speed needle is quite thick so it would be awesome if someone could tell me when you are actually on sixty because the needle doesnt match up as it is to thick, so is it at the start of the needle or end of the needle that touches the "60" line, when you are travelling 60

3) Whats the innaccuracy of the aurion speeedometer vs actual speed....2-3 kmh?

Thanks guys

I wouldn't worry too much about it because if the needle was on about 60 in 60KM zone, you must not be captured unless you got a mod on your odometers.

just make sure you were not driving school zone during school time because the camera might capture your rego plate if you drove higher than 40KM/H during the school time.

In fact, there is a slight difference between the real speed and the odo speed about 5%. so if the odo says 100Km/H then the real speed would be about 95Km/H. Also I heard from someone that there are some fake camera flashing to prevent speeding in some of rural, country area nowadays.

Also, in my experience, (this might be different depending on areas and situations) the police(with speedgun) doesn't even bother to catch me when I drive at 65Km/H odospeed in 60KM zone. They actully start catching when ppl drive over 10KM from the limit speed.

However, from the mobile and fixed camera you better to drive slower than the limit speed from the odometre just for your own safety.

[mpresara]

thanks guys for the reply's

hmmmmm im pretty sure guys im safe with with the 2-3 kmh speedo allowance and then the further 3kmh allowance ...lol ....how long does it take to get the fine in the mail?

In NSW sometimes 6-8 weeks. Usually you have trouble recalling the incident.

[marc2020]

And there is also an allowance of ~2-3km/h on your speed in fines. So if your speedo was saying 60 but you reckon that due to the needle thickness it could actually be reading 62-3 then it should still be fine.

[VF-X]

thanks guys for the reply's

hmmmmm im pretty sure guys im safe with with the 2-3 kmh speedo allowance and then the further 3kmh allowance ...lol ....how long does it take to get the fine in the mail?

In NSW sometimes 6-8 weeks. Usually you have trouble recalling the incident.

6-8 weeks?

I thought it takes 3 weeks and 4 the most...

[lateralus]

actually, in the manufacturing of vehicles, there is a standard tolerance of upto 10% between the actual vehicle speed and the displayed vehicle speed.

so at 100km/h, you could be doing anything from 90km/h up to 110km/h. although an extreme example, it is possible.

hopefully you didnt get busted!

[dannywss]

i thought police CANT take pic from in front of your car, ONLY FROM BEHIND?

well, if this is your FIRST ticket, u should FIGHT for it, there is a lot of help from lawyer that focus on these issues.

it doesnt really work if you receive more tickets... :(

[Stealth]

Hey guys

Have had my aurion for about 6 months and absolutely loving them

however yesterday i ran into some trouble ...so i will start with my two questions

1) there was a mobile speed camera with flash on the opposite side of the road to me , can you get caught?

2) the aurion speed needle is quite thick so it would be awesome if someone could tell me when you are actually on sixty because the needle doesnt match up as it is to thick, so is it at the start of the needle or end of the needle that touches the "60" line, when you are travelling 60

3) Whats the innaccuracy of the aurion speeedometer vs actual speed....2-3 kmh?

Thanks guys

To aurion_zr6, haven't you seen Stealth's signature, LOL. He seems to be promotion a site for challenging speeding fines.

Yep Yep sorry about the delay

See below

[Stealth]

And yeah, the Speed Detection technology used my roadside cameras can detect proceeding and receding speeds.

However inaccurate they are...

From the site below:

"You are being conned out of over $2Billion a year and many of you are losing your licenses to dodgy police practices. Here at Speeding Fine Consultants, Scott Cooper has been telling motorists this fact for years and now…the proof is out there.

There are several important points you need to watch out for in all radar bookings and the most important of them is police concealment. In all cases whether it be Lidar/Laser, mobile radar or speed camera, their guidelines state that they must not be concealed. Further those same guidelines state that the police vehicles must be fully marked police vehicles with their warning lights and overhead lights on!

Those guidelines are emplaced to give motorists early warning that they are there and we all know just how they hide behind bushes, bustops and anything handy and deliberately park their cars up driveways and around corners….

The second important point to remember is … hills and bends. They are not allowed to operate on either.

Third point is that if you are photographed by a speed camera head on, especially at night, it is illegal for them to do so. In fact be suspicious of any front on speed camera booking and check to see if the “Camera in use” sign has been put out on the opposite side of the road as well as the camera side. The reality is that just about all speed cameras are set up to shoot you from behind only. In that mode they will photograph vehicles coming from the opposite direction if they break the radar beam but it will be a false and erroneous reading if the camera has not been set up correctly to photograph both oncoming and departing traffic."

Edited November 12, 2008 by Stealth

[Adrian]

Arrh, but was the camera head on ? It looks to be approx. 45degrees ? And didn't see ant cars on the opposite side of the road.

Anyway, good luck if you take them on, we would be interested in finding out the result.

Thanks

Edited November 12, 2008 by Adrian

[intrigue]

I copped a speed fine over the weekend and they were operating at the top of a short/bend hill off the exit freeway. Are they allowed to use radars like that? Cause there was no prewarning that they were there, i guess they're the pigs i mean police so they can do anything right?

[dannywss]

..i mean police so they can do anything right?

yup, from what i know. Call your lawyer if you really care about the demerit points, IF not, just pay it rather than wasting time on this small matter

[DJKOR]

I'm not sure about other states, but this is what I know so far for Queensland. Any indented quotes are from the documents available at http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/road...nfringement.htm:

... their guidelines state that they must not be concealed. Further those same guidelines state that the police vehicles must be fully marked police vehicles with their warning lights and overhead lights on!

Those guidelines are emplaced to give motorists early warning that they are there and we all know just how they hide behind bushes, bustops and anything handy and deliberately park their cars up driveways and around corners….

I DID NOT SEE THE SPEED CAMERA AS THE POLICE OFFICER WAS HIDING.

This is not a reason for exceeding the posted speed limit. It is not the policy of the Queensland Police Service to deliberately conceal speed cameras at this time. Authorised operators of these devices are instructed in the correct set up and operating procedures.

While the philosophy of the speed camera program is based on general deterrence using marked speed camera vehicles, it would not be appropriate for drivers who are exceeding the speed limit to have prior warning of a speed camera and thus avoid detection.

Successful traffic policing relies upon a mixture of general deterrence (to encourage drivers to comply with traffic laws) and specific deterrence (the penalising of those drivers who refuse to obey traffic laws). The Queensland Police Service recognises that there is a need to strike a balance between the two types of deterrence.

...and check to see if the “Camera in use” sign has been put out on the opposite side of the road as well as the camera side.

Under the guidelines of the Queensland Police Service Traffic Manual, section 6.6.17, the sign may be placed between five and thirty metres past the speed camera in the direction of travel of target vehicles.

The purpose of the sign is to alert motorists, who have had their speed checked, of the presence of radar to enable them to appropriately adjust their speed to a safer level in instances where they are exceeding the speed limit. It is a Service requirement for the sign to be in place.

There is no legislative requirement for the Speed Camera in Use sign to be used on a speed camera deployment.

The reality is that just about all speed cameras are set up to shoot you from behind only. In that mode they will photograph vehicles coming from the opposite direction if they break the radar beam but it will be a false and erroneous reading if the camera has not been set up correctly to photograph both oncoming and departing traffic."

I have a photo here of my Camry caught speeding with my Dad driving it back in 1997 (got it enlarged for joke purposes). That photo was captured front on as well. It has a marker on it just like this example:

As you can see, the unit is made to capture the car going either forward or away from traffic. That was more than 10 years ago as well that it could do that, and it still can. As for there being massive error... well I must admit that it was pretty spot on for my last fine (shown on my post above). If anything, it may have been under the speed I thought I was doing.

I copped a speed fine over the weekend and they were operating at the top of a short/bend hill off the exit freeway. Are they allowed to use radars like that? Cause there was no prewarning that they were there...

Like I said, my knowledge is for QLD, but you would think other states have similar. For us, there is no requirement to have any speed camera or radar warning signs or the like. They are only there as a courtesy. And anyways, in my opinion the warnings defeat the purpose of the speed camera. If they hide the camera and you get caught speeding, it's not their fault. You shouldn't have been speeding.

Anyways, quoting the QLD Police information page:

MY VEHICLE PICKED UP SPEED ONLY BECAUSE I WAS DRIVING DOWN A HILL. CAN THE INFRINGEMENT NOTICE BE WITHDRAWN?

No. The physical characteristics of the road should not control the speed of vehicles travelling upon it. It is prudent for a driver to utilise the braking system fitted to their vehicle if the downgrade is such that the vehicle could move faster than the stated speed limit.

Yes I hate speed cameras like everyone else. Fact of the matter is, if you were speeding, then bear the fine. If you are more than certain that you weren't speeding (and you would know if you definitely weren't), then you can seek action to have it withdrawn.

[Stealth]

..i mean police so they can do anything right?

yup, from what i know. Call your lawyer if you really care about the demerit points, IF not, just pay it rather than wasting time on this small matter

No offence dude, but that's exactly what they want you to do.

From Speeding Fine Consultants (.COM)

"If you cop a speeding fine and it is in the low offence range, costing up to $200, Motorists assume that to just pay it and get it out of the road is the best option.

You need to be aware that unlike points racked up in a 3 year period, each time you are fined it goes down as a black mark on your driving history… for life. What you may also not be aware of is that you are supposed to notify your vehicle comprehensive insurance company each and every time you get booked or commit a traffic offence and have either been convicted of it or simply paid the fine."

Every fine is worth fighting because it's a biased and corrupt system and your insurance company will penalise you as well.

I'm not condoning speeding by any means by the way but the fact of the matter is:

"Quoting directly from confidential Standard speed Enforcement Operations manual, the bible that the police are obliged to act under, he revealed that the whole thing was nothing but a huge cheat. That operations manual states clearly,

“Speed cameras must only be used in accordance with the original site criteria. If any of the conditions of the road change significantly, such as;

Speed zone;

Roadworks

Number of lanes;

The speed camera is not to be used for enforcement purposes."

Speeding, as such is relative. 110kmh on a country road is legal (and therefore safe?). Yet 110kmh in an 80 zone is highly illegal... why is it an 80 zone in the first place, why not 90kmh? The speed kills mentality is a joke.

"In 1997 the American president realised that the entire public highway system and speed limits were run by the major insurance conglomerates. In an effort to eliminate this imbalance he actually raised the speed limit quite substantially. A remarkable thing then happened. The road toll dropped immediately to its lowest in recorded History [sic 1965] and has stayed down ever since. Likewise accidents, insurance claims and time spent on the roads."

Edited November 13, 2008 by Stealth

[Stealth]

Please wait a few seconds for Video to Load!

[DJKOR]

Speeding, as such is relative. 110kmh on a country road is legal (and therefore safe?). Yet 110kmh in an 80 zone is highly illegal... why is it an 80 zone in the first place, why not 90kmh?

Not trying to be a d!ck, but let's put it this way. Why is it more risky to run through an office than outside?

I am not trying to prove one person right or wrong, just providing my thoughts. These only really apply to stationary speed cameras or officers with hand-held LIDAR units. If you get pulled over by a cop that was following you, then you don't have much you can argue about.

YouTube post

As for the video posted above, they are right in that moving the unit will create error. What they failed to think of were the actual physics of that situation. Sure they got a speed reading, but that was because the distance to the ground got progressively shorter. People would watch that thinking all kinds of crap about the units being inaccurate.

Fact of the matter is, if you are aiming it at an approaching car and you pan to the side (because you are too far off from being directly in front of the car), you will actually read a SLOWER speed than the actual. This would only happen in the case of increasing the angle between the LIDAR and the car, but it would be extremely hard to create the opposite scenario in which you would read a higher speed. Don't beleive me? Draw it up for yourself.

Anyways, there is a reason you see a majority of cops who use these either leaning against a street sign/lamp post, or leaning on their car/bike.

[Stealth]

Also check this site for more relevant informtion

Scroll half way down the page to show "How do Police Radar, Laser & Speed Cameras make mistakes"

http://www.delonixradar.com.au/western_australia/#camera

[Stealth]

As for the video posted above, they are right in that moving the unit will create error. What they failed to think of were the actual physics of that situation. Sure they got a speed reading, but that was because the distance to the ground got progressively shorter. People would watch that thinking all kinds of crap about the units being inaccurate.

Fact of the matter is, if you are aiming it at an approaching car and you pan to the side (because you are too far off from being directly in front of the car), you will actually read a SLOWER speed than the actual. This would only happen in the case of increasing the angle between the LIDAR and the car, but it would be extremely hard to create the opposite scenario in which you would read a higher speed. Don't beleive me? Draw it up for yourself.

Anyways, there is a reason you see a majority of cops who use these either leaning against a street sign/lamp post, or leaning on their car/bike.

Come on DJ, i have more faith in you than thinking you actually beleive that...

In actual fact:

Sweep Error: (also known as pan or slip error) - Is manifested when the laser is aimed at one part of the vehicle, say the license plate, and due to the motion of the operator, the laser also targets a side mirror during the same trigger pull. Sweep Error adds to the real speed of the target vehicle

Also watch part 2

Please wait a few seconds for Video to Load!

Edited November 13, 2008 by Stealth

[Stealth]

Speeding, as such is relative. 110kmh on a country road is legal (and therefore safe?). Yet 110kmh in an 80 zone is highly illegal... why is it an 80 zone in the first place, why not 90kmh?

Not trying to be a d!ck, but let's put it this way. Why is it more risky to run through an office than outside?

YouTube post

It's more a case of:

"85th percentile rule

Traffic engineers may rely on the 85th percentile rule[11][12] to establish speed limits. The speed limit should be set to the speed that separates the bottom 85% of vehicle speeds from the top 15%. The 85th percentile is slightly greater than a speed that is one standard deviation above the mean of a normal distribution.

The theory is that traffic laws that reflect the behavior of the majority of motorists may have better compliance than laws that arbitrarily criminalize the majority of motorists and encourage violations. The latter kinds of laws lack public support and often fail to bring about desirable changes in driving behavior. An example is United States's old 55 mph (90 km/h) speed limit that was removed in part because of notoriously low compliance.

Most U.S. jurisdictions report using the 85th percentile speed as the basis for their speed limits, so the 85th-percentile speed and speed limits should be closely matched. However, a review of available speed studies demonstrates that the posted speed limit is almost always set well below the 85th-percentile speed by as much as 8 to 12 mph (see p.88) (13 to 19 km/h). Some reasons for this include:

* Political or bureaucratic resistance to higher limits.

* Statutes that restrict jurisdictions from posting higher limits."

From Wikipedia.com

And lets not forget (the safety factor?):

"Variable speed limits

Recently some jurisdictions have begun experimenting with variable speed limits which change with road congestion and other factors (this is distinct from France's reduction of limits during adverse weather). One example is on Britain's M25 motorway, which circumnavigates London. On the most heavily-traveled 22 km section (junction 10 to 16) of the M25 variable speed limits combined with automated enforcement have been in force since 1995. Initial results indicated savings in journey times, smoother-flowing traffic, and a fall in the number of accidents, so the implementation was made permanent in 1997. Further trials on the M25 have been thus far proved inconclusive.[14]

In Germany, the first experiments with variable signs took place in 1965 on A8 Munich-Salzburg with signs that were operated manually.[15] Beginning in the 1970s, more and more advanced Streckenbeeinflussungsanlagen (linear control systems) were put into service. Modern motorway control systems can work without human intervention using various types of sensors to measure traffic flow and weather conditions. By 2007, 1200 km (10 %) of German motorways will be equipped with such systems.[16]

In 2006, Austria began experimenting with a 160 km/h (100 mph) speed limit on a selected test stretch of Autobahn as part of their program of variable speed limit, using the slogan "flexibility with responsibility."

New Zealand has had variable speed limits since 2001. The first installation was on the Ngauranga Gorge, a steep section of dual carriageway on SH1 north of the capital, Wellington. The speed limit is normally 80 km/h. The downhill section is monitored by a fixed speed camera.

In The Netherlands, much of the dense motorway network is equipped with variable speed regulation systems. The electronic signage is commonly posted every 500 metres. The system keeps track of all traffic movement and lowers the speed limit if it detects the start of traffic congestion. When activated the speed limit can be set at 90, 70, or 50 km/h according to the level of expected traffic congestion.

Variable speed limits are used on some stretches of highway in the United States. This has not, however, been implemented on a national basis. On Interstate 90 at Snoqualmie Pass, Washington, (near Seattle) variable speed limits are used to slow traffic in severe winter weather. This is also done on other mountain passes in Washington.[17] Variable speed limit signs, in combination with variable message signs, have been in use since the 1960s on the New Jersey Turnpike, where officials can adjust the speed limit according to weather, traffic conditions, and construction. Other roadways with variable speed limits include the Pulaski Skyway in New Jersey and I-495 in Delaware."

From Wikipedia.com

Australia is going BACKWARDS with speed regulating laws. Let's drive slower to save lives? It adds to fatigue, boredom and lack of concentration. You yourself (DJKOR) were a very unfortunate victim of this. Glad you're okay and your car's all good now btw.

Note the minimum speed as well...

Edited November 13, 2008 by Stealth

[DJKOR]

As for the video posted above, they are right in that moving the unit will create error. What they failed to think of were the actual physics of that situation. Sure they got a speed reading, but that was because the distance to the ground got progressively shorter. People would watch that thinking all kinds of crap about the units being inaccurate.

Fact of the matter is, if you are aiming it at an approaching car and you pan to the side (because you are too far off from being directly in front of the car), you will actually read a SLOWER speed than the actual. This would only happen in the case of increasing the angle between the LIDAR and the car, but it would be extremely hard to create the opposite scenario in which you would read a higher speed. Don't beleive me? Draw it up for yourself.

Anyways, there is a reason you see a majority of cops who use these either leaning against a street sign/lamp post, or leaning on their car/bike.

Come on DJ i have more faith in you than thinking you actually beleive that...

Also watch part 2

Funny you posted the video here as well. I was about to post the following after watching it on the website. Now I will say I was wrong in previous statement, but not completely. I was referring to it only if they stayed on the same area, ie. the windscreen or the front of the car:

Please wait a few seconds for Video to Load!

In a case like what they showed at the beginning with the truck, then yes; you would have some reason to dispute it, but otherwise this is just a lot of your typical ACA stuff, and then added to a site trying to market and sell their radar detectors.

If you have reason to believe that the cop that got you targeted you from a wide angle or while you were less than 200 metres away from them, then there is a greater chance of error there. When you are further away and within about 20 degrees offset from them, it is pretty hard to get error from targeting the side of your car. At distance and within a 20 degree angle, they can only really get much error from travelling from your windscreen down your bonnet. Even in that case though, within the time that the LIDAR does its reading, they would only be able to move it enough to create up to about 3.6km/h error (if I get time I will even draw it up). All the cops that I have driven by that are using a hand-held unit was targetting from a distance greater than 200 meters and on an angle 20 degrees or less.

Now all that only really applies to cops with hand-held units. Originally posted was a question about the camera cars. The errors mentioned above don't really apply.

Like I said, I'm not trying to target one side's supporting view in particular, I just like to see the other side to an argument. If you're name is Scott Cooper though, I would not be so happy about all this forum advertising. Now this thread has become like one big advertisement for that site. As well, I just find it suspicious when someone claims that if your case wins, you have no fees or charges, but if you lose, his only charge is $65. No I don't know how all these no win/no pay guys work, but to me it sounds suspicious because some way or another, they need to earn a living.

Anyways, this is all coming from someone who now has 2 points left on his open licence, almost always travels more than 10km/h above the speed limit (except for when is truly is not safe to), and does stupid sh!t like this:

[Stealth]

Hey guys

Have had my aurion for about 6 months and absolutely loving them

however yesterday i ran into some trouble ...so i will start with my two questions

1) there was a mobile speed camera with flash on the opposite side of the road to me , can you get caught?

2) the aurion speed needle is quite thick so it would be awesome if someone could tell me when you are actually on sixty because the needle doesnt match up as it is to thick, so is it at the start of the needle or end of the needle that touches the "60" line, when you are travelling 60

3) Whats the innaccuracy of the aurion speeedometer vs actual speed....2-3 kmh?

Thanks guys

Like i said before...

Also check this site for more relevant informtion

Scroll half way down the page to show "How do Police Radar, Laser & Speed Cameras make mistakes"

http://www.delonixradar.com.au/western_australia/#camera

Go back to the main page to get information for your state.