FASTER THAN R50 V10 TWIN TURBO VW TOE RAG! (AWD KX-S Kluger) 7.10 seconds 0-100kph (+ FJ Cruiser) 6.84 seconds 0-100kph V6=Don Mega!!!!

[RICE RACING]

Rice!

Any advance of your time?

Found the Mobil 1 0W-40. Expensive! $96 for 5L. Did you say we need 6L or something? :o

Is that worth near $120 of change every 6 month for that 0.2 sec <_<

I just for OBD scanner, I can mix both and get a better time!

Hi There,

No I was more than satisfied with the performance validation tests I did on my Kluger and have not been doing any performance "tests" of that type, I like it too much to give it a hard time, most days when I get in it to have a drive its just cruising along and enjoying the car and the scenery hoping she will stay as new forever :)

Cracked the massive 4000km on the odo a few days back :D planning a big road trip to Qld next month (sick of flying) so if that goes ahead will take some snap shots along the way and do a little write up of the journey if people are interested.

Yeah the Mobil 1 0w-40 was pretty expensive, but I like the stuff so what price do you put on giving the best to a car you like so much ? ........ I forgot about the price I payed for 3 bottles now, but I'm sure my engine will be better for it long term so I don't mind spending that bit extra.

[PC XT]

Rice!

Any advance of your time?

Found the Mobil 1 0W-40. Expensive! $96 for 5L. Did you say we need 6L or something? :o

Is that worth near $120 of change every 6 month for that 0.2 sec <_<

I just for OBD scanner, I can mix both and get a better time!

Hi There,

No I was more than satisfied with the performance validation tests I did on my Kluger and have not been doing any performance "tests" of that type, I like it too much to give it a hard time, most days when I get in it to have a drive its just cruising along and enjoying the car and the scenery hoping she will stay as new forever :)

Cracked the massive 4000km on the odo a few days back :D planning a big road trip to Qld next month (sick of flying) so if that goes ahead will take some snap shots along the way and do a little write up of the journey if people are interested.

Yeah the Mobil 1 0w-40 was pretty expensive, but I like the stuff so what price do you put on giving the best to a car you like so much ? ........ I forgot about the price I payed for 3 bottles now, but I'm sure my engine will be better for it long term so I don't mind spending that bit extra.

Great Oil and recommend and used in the new GTR!

[RICE RACING]

Interesting reading for the rotary buffs and kluger enthusiasts out there:

2008 Royal Auto that landed today on my doorstep

Tested by Ernest Litera (RACV's chief vehicle tester)

Tested New RX8 GT 170kw, 1379kg sports car... VBOX figures:

0-100 = 8.5 seconds

400m 15.9 seconds

& Fuel usage 14.5lt per 100km

^ I am so happy I have my SP RX7 and my Kluger, thought it an interesting comparison and shows how the great the Kluger is at near 2000kg and its 200kw 3.5lt V6.

When I did all of my performance testing I think my figures if I look back on the previous pages was int he high 12lt range?

[Taka]

8.5 seconds. WTF?

I get under 7 sec all the time.

[boleh]

can someone enlighten me on the benefits of rotary engine as in the one in RX8..

it consumes more fuel than piston V6 (350Z) and gives less power

more delicate and needs more attention - consumes engine oil, etc.

whats wrong with bigger capacity piston engine?

i can only think of it being rational in countries where road tax penalize big engine displacement, eg. Malaysia, 3000cc engine = $2000 rego / year

[Taka]

can someone enlighten me on the benefits of rotary engine as in the one in RX8..

it consumes more fuel than piston V6 (350Z) and gives less power

more delicate and needs more attention - consumes engine oil, etc.

whats wrong with bigger capacity piston engine?

i can only think of it being rational in countries where road tax penalize big engine displacement, eg. Malaysia, 3000cc engine = $2000 rego / year

Ricey. Please add more.

Yes rotary engine drinks for fuel, eat more engine oil.

But the engine is tiny. It is so small in the RX-8 so that it is sitting next to the transmission. The engine being low and inside the cabin. This is like driving a midship car like a Porsche Boxster. The result is a perfect balance between front and rear. The car drives beautifully.

Think of that 1.3L rotary engine is calculated as slightly less than 2.6L in CAMS classification. It has 170kW it is actually quite powerful. Turbo RX-8 doubled that power, with the best car so far getting 227kW at the rear wheel (same car dyno stock was 110kW only at the same dyno).

EDIT:

It is much easier to overhual and unless you have housing cracked, the rotor in the middle and seals are relatively less expensive. Stronger seals are withstanding high tubro boost so far in RX-8

Watch it being put together, simple.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Taka

[RICE RACING]

can someone enlighten me on the benefits of rotary engine as in the one in RX8..

it consumes more fuel than piston V6 (350Z) and gives less power

more delicate and needs more attention - consumes engine oil, etc.

whats wrong with bigger capacity piston engine?

i can only think of it being rational in countries where road tax penalize big engine displacement, eg. Malaysia, 3000cc engine = $2000 rego / year

Rotary or ****el cycle is rated as 1.308lt for a two rotor, but NO ONE acknowledges the ****EL CYCLE means its a 3.924lt engine !

This is because for any of the firing chambers to come around and do another bit of work it takes 1080 degrees of crank shaft rotation and NOT 360 ! like Mazda claim in their low capacity rating of the engine lol

360 degree's only is applicable to a two stroke

720 degree's to a four stroke

1080 degree's to a ****el rotary engine

That little nugget of information in your brain cell now means the 13B rotary engine = the following

1.308lt two stroke (true if you only count 1/3rd of all the chambers that make up a working engine)

2.616lt four stroke (again if you like ignore to other 1/3rd of the chambers left yet to contribute to a full operating cycle)

3.924lt ****el rotary (only true capacity for it as all firing chambers have completed one lot of work!)

^ Thus you can say the engine is like any of the above (especially if you want to compare fuel consumption per capacity) but only one is technically true from an engineering point of view. IMHO for Mazda to go and teach the world of how the ****el rotary engine cycle works would be a pain so all they do is say its the smallest of the 3 options without paying respect to the basic fact of all the other operating principles count EVERY power producing separate chamber *piston face* in their motors. The basic fact that you measure 3 individual faces on each rotor in a mazda rotary when checkign the health of the engine means even the most simple minded person can see that what I am saying is but true ;) 654cc per face and 3 faces per rotor you go do the basic math :)

NOW

Why are rotaries popular?

Cheapness ! They are a cheap device, very very simple, very durable as a racing engine, nothing comes close to them in this department (only Japanese manufacturer to win the 24hr LeMans race to this day) in club racing in this country you cant get a cheaper form of front running car, and in the FD its the ultimate sports car money can buy which combines looks, Porsche killing endurance race pedigree (4 times 12Hr victor undefeated! battling against the worlds best manufactures and their iconic models).

CONS?

Many!

can be fragile

use lots of fuel relative to power output and actual displacement (see engineering description/explanation)

low on power (normally aspirated are asthmatic and inefficient)

proven low amount of time between rebuilds when used as a road car (non racing use) V's piston counter parts

As a racing engine they are pretty much unbeatable on a semi normal budget (cheap and can make great power if no restrictions are place on them), if your not talking about something of F1 level of technology applies to it, but IF your talking about competing on a level playing field of same method of aspiration (normal of turbo) inlet air restricting (modern racing air inlet limitations), true capacity equivalence, rpm limitation (modern piston engines rev much more and thus make more power), then the ****el rotary engine is pretty much stuffed in every measure you care to apply in a Apples to Apples comparison. The only thing it can win on is costs, but again there are some real stonker piston engines that are very cheap that obliterate the rotary sadly nowadays.

The humble 13B rotary engine has beaten many a competitor as Mazda apply it to the RX7 FD it was unbeatable as proven in genuine production machine racing and even won as late as 1999 against even more advanced machines like the Ferrari F355 and a mountain of other less well thought out sports cars (Polrite Bathurst 3 hr production car race). Its reign started way back with being the first Japanese car ever to win the touring car championship here in 1983, The 12hr wins with the FD *ultimate Mazda rotary car* and the still un-rivaled LeMans outright win.... Sadly in todays word where everything is isolated and compared to the finest detail the principle does not stack up to others, hence why none else bothers with the concept as they don't want to go broke making inefficient cars lol, but as a sports car its undeniable the mark the rotary engine has left and in the FD, its a full on legend that beat all the other superior piston powered cars from its world motor sport debut in 1992 to its final victory in 1999 with the same model of car lol....... they are so good that they are baned from modern production car racing in this country !

[Taka]

Rice,

Breath!

[PC XT]

The RX8 Lost all its appeal when they dropped the word Turbo out or the vocab Long live the old Rotaries and the ones with huffers on them.

Tested New RX8 GT 170kw, 1379kg sports car... VBOX figures:

0-100 = 8.5 seconds

400m 15.9 seconds

& Fuel usage 14.5lt per 100km

These are not performance figures give me my Boxy Forester XT any day with 0-100 in 5.8 and 400m in 14.3 sec & fuel at 11.4 all stock out of the box! What have Mazda done wrong, they are going back wards, it needs a turbo and it will be a different story, I also have a passion for rotaries after owning/racing a few for over 10 years, there is nothing like it when they all come together correctly

The Klugers engine is a marvel and with 200Kw on tap it has a super car motor in it like a NSX any one remember them? That was nearly 20 years ago now!

Edited August 27, 2008 by PC XT

[Taka]

Don't know why 8.5 sec but now they need a 3rd gear to get to 100kmh, I can do that in 2 gears in mine. To be honest though, I rather have their gearbox and final drive.

They are now also fatter, may be the same engine but different injectors. Power should be similar, although mine was rated 177kW.

Still get 1:41 around Winton. Stock EVO X are running in high 1:40. Go figure.

[RICE RACING]

Today & Yesterday setting various software options my VBOX3 for an upcoming interstate tuning trip I did no fewer than 25!!! 0-100kph calibration tests and 2 full x 0-400 meter tests, combined with a fair bit of stop starting and idle time setting (note: large level of engine heat soak!) my data logger and Lap Top.

As a side note the 0-100kph times varied from a best (starting from cold and 10km drive to the first test location) of 7.74 seconds (with a two way average of 7.75 seconds!) on half tank of 91 octane fuel carrying some extra gear to a worst Today *after 10 runs prior setting up equipment* then laying down 8.26 seconds in what is basically the worst conditions to run a performance type test (ran 8.25, 8.26, 8.28 back to back to back no cool down between with hot inlet manifold) *basically on a fully heat soaked engine* and ambient temp of 20 deg C........ after a small cool down driving to the next test location it then ran 7.94 & 15.96 @ 141.92kph time, and on the return run (30 seconds time from first test *turn around and run down other way*) 8.01 seconds & 16.04 @ 140.20kph 400m time.

So the Kluger even when in pretty much the lowest quality fuel, the engine having been tested all day, and everything quite hot will still crack a 15 sec 400m time and never do worse than a 8.3sec 0-100km time :o it's nothing short of amazing ! I was expecting to see a greater drop off in performance on the low octane fuel and in the punishing testing schedule.

So there it is:

Best of 7.15 seconds (two way average) on 5 deg cold morning with higher quality fuel (95 and 98)

Below are all normal take off's, just stand on accelerator with no foot on brake etc & gearbox left in D

Follow up 2+ months later with 91 oct cheapo fuel of 7.75 seconds 2 way average.

And an absolute worst of 8.26 seconds (three way average) on an extremely heat soaked engine, followed up by 7.94 seconds after a short cool down drive, again on cheapo 91 octane.

^ Still faster than a Toerag anyway you look at it ^

Edited August 30, 2008 by RICE RACING

[holmesie]

Rice, do you think there is any potential benefit (either power or economy) to be had from exhaust mods?

Cheers

[RICE RACING]

Rice, do you think there is any potential benefit (either power or economy) to be had from exhaust mods?

Cheers

Great question, looking underneath the car she has three cat converters (which are quite large, so should be not so restrictive?) the main muffler is the size of a golf bag (read same feeling), and the exhaust in general looks well made so I'm not sure of the performance gains equaling the increase in noise by putting on smaller mufflers.

I would be more than happy to test anyone's KX-S 4WD, Kluger fitted with an after market exhaust system though, we can use my data on mine as a base line :)

Me personally having had an older petrol 100 series Land Cruiser that I put extractors on and two very small mufflers the increase of performance (seat of the pants) did not make up for the large increase of noise, so I doubt I'd be in a rush to do it this time to my Kluger, which goes great as is by anyones measure.

[RICE RACING]

^ Above is power to the wheels on 91 octane fuel based of my VBOX3 information 1st to 3rd gear test on a 400m run. I spent a long time over weekend calibrating coast down data for the Kluger combined with accel data and other info = actual power delivered to the road :)

[RME1]

This is an AWESOME THREAD!

Keep up the data logging and analysis!

The discussions are well worth the reading :D

Rotary FTW!

SUV Kluger, WHAT A BEAST!! Definately the family's choice :D

[RICE RACING]

Just came back home from a 3327km round trip to Qld, had stop off in Sydney and Canberra to do tuning work, so combined quite a bit of low speed stuff in city driving... in short averaged 9.3lt for the 3327km Journey...... tried all types of fuels (6 different fills) and the best were from BP service stations, had some figures of 8.6~8.8lt or so on pure highway traveling (over 500km).

Will take a photo and post up through week for proof :)

Kluger was awesome, I drove back the 1640km with only two fuel stops and a sleep for about 5 hours at a mates place in Canberra, left Qld lunch time and got back home to Bairnsdale just after lunch time today.

[holmesie]

Nice work RR - I'll be doing a 3,000k trip in mine soon, and I hope I can achieve the same sort of economy as you mate :)

[RICE RACING]

Nice work RR - I'll be doing a 3,000k trip in mine soon, and I hope I can achieve the same sort of economy as you mate :)

Nice, oh I forgot to say ! I saw a crap load of Klugers on the road!!! many more than other similar types in that class of 4WD. All colors and types, most popular was Grande in white and light blue, not many KX-S ones like mine, and only blue one was a KX-R? had smaller rims and no fog lights etc.

It was so funny on way back, had some punk in a X5 BMW who thought he was hardcore and I totally smashed him accelerating up a hill to about 150kph! :D lots of people shocked with how fast the Kluger is, non more than me :o it seriously is one of the best rides I have had that combines awesome power to overtake safely but top notch fuel economy for such a big vehicle. The safety was shown best on way back where it was raining so hard around Maitland where I could not see with windshield wipers on full ! she was rock solid.

Great vehicle :D

[Taka]

I did that today.

Just change oil (those toyota crap though). On full tank of 95 RON Caltex Vortex.

7.68 sec!

[Taka]

Did a run when I could not sleep....

The best I could do is 7.97 seconds :(

But coz I saw there are no cops around I did one 1/4 mile under 16 seconds 15.96 seconds. Not bad for a phat Grande B)

Edited October 9, 2008 by Taka

[RICE RACING]

Honestly, me and Taka are the hardest core Kluger drivers on this site

[nealo]

Honestly, me and Taka are the hardest core Kluger drivers on this site

Nah, you've just got the ability to prove it!

[RICE RACING]

Took the front 3 spark plugs out of my Kluger today to have an examination of how healthy the engine is running.

First point is how clean the plugs are! very very small amount of carbon build up on outer body with zero build up on the insulator nose or the ground electrode! they use an Iridium spark plug with an Iridium tip welded onto a convention steel ground electrode, my car has 8500km on it and the plug looks like it just cam out of the box, both ground an center tips are very sharp and show virtually nil wear..... they will easily do 100,000km based of this check today.

Oil level is almost exactly the same as 7500km ago when I put in new 0w-40 Mobil 1 and oil color is only slightly darker than when I put it in!

I did a very brief performance check with full tank of BP98 and equipment left in car from my tuning trip and it registered 0-100kph in 7.57 seconds (25 deg Ambient day). All in all she has a clean bill of health and I am very impressed with the engines retention of performance, economy, and durability with no funny business going on (no oil consumption).

In next few weeks I will run a compression check on the engine and keep that on file in this thread as well, I have a professional digital tester that I use in my rotary work with is made for all types of petrol internal combustion engines, I will post up the results.

Edited October 12, 2008 by RICE RACING

[Snowy68]

Hi Rice,

Any idea if 5W-30 synthetic oil would be okay for the Kluger? Supercheap Auto have Castrol Edge Sport 5W-30 on sale for $29.95 for 5 litres, which is $22 off. I live it Sydney, so am not sure if it would be okay for use in summer.

Appreciate any advice.

P.S. Will also be taking the Kluger down to the snow in winter.

Thanks,

Snowy68

Edited November 4, 2008 by Snowy68

[Taka]

I thought they are 10W 30 already and 5W30 is not that thinner so I think it is ok.