FWD Driving Techniques

[Supercharged TRD]

I'm a late bloomer in terms of performance vehicles and I'm currently trying to get my driving skills improved. I would therefore like to ask for advice regarding the best FWD performance driving techniques.

I've brought my car up a couple of times to <undisclosed mountainous road> to try and get it to its limits. The difficulty is trying to get over the fear of the car "losing" it on a turn and heading straight into the guard rail or worse still, another vehicle. I've managed to do some corners pretty quickly, so much so that the wheels start to squeal, but traction control has not intervened so far. My question is, how safe is the vehicle stability system on the Aurion, and can I rely on it to get me out of a spin or loss of control? Right now, the moment I hear the tyres squeal, I cut the power or try not to turn as sharply. Should I ignore the squeal and keep turning and keep the power on, relying on the VSC to keep the vehicle in line?

The 19" Dunlops on the TRD do an amazing job...I'm actually very surprised at how "sticky" they are. If I can safely keep power up during those turns rather than bleed off so much speed it would cut down my timings quite a bit.

Edited October 12, 2008 by TRD Aurion Owner

[DJKOR]

Firstly, if you want to test out the ABS and VSC, take it somewhere where you can do hard turns and whatnot without fear of hitting anything or anyone. I took mine down to the local parking lot and tested out the ABS and VSC. This was the first car that I have ever tested ABS on and it was certainly quite a lot to get it there on dry road. The VSC is an interesting one when you experience it doing it job. You really need to test it out on some 'safe road' before pushing your limits elsewhere. It's the weirdest feeling when the VSC kicks in. It's like the car is floating on a guided track.

Every so often when taking certain turns (like ones that I drive through often), I like to push the car that little bit harder when the road is clear. In those cases, if you push it a little too much you can usually feel when the VSC kicks in to keep everything on track. At that point you know when it's time to back off. Usually, so long as you don't do anything stupid crazy, the VSC kicking in will give you a good indication when you are pushing it just that little bit too much, and gives you enough time to ease off and not get into a mess.

[Blind Kid Seeks]

One of the worst things to do with an FWD car when you start to lose traction, it to make sudden changes in Braking or accelerating. If you start to notice some tyre squeal ease off the power and maintain acceleration.

[Supercharged TRD]

How do I ease power and keep accelerating? Doesn't acceleration require an increase in power to happen?

[lateralus]

How do I ease power and keep accelerating? Doesn't acceleration require an increase in power to happen?

i think he means to try and maintain your current vehicle speed as closely as possible. a change in any variable that causes a shift of the centre of gravity will make the car unstable, and thus more likely to lose control.

but beware that a lot of people have the misconception that VSC actually stands for "nothing can happen to me now". dont be over-confident with your stability and safety features, because theyre only an aid, and not an anti-crash measure (if that makes sense). by all means use it, but once your vehicle loses control, it comes down to skill and experience rather than electronics.

Edited October 12, 2008 by lateralus

[leasaunce]

^ESC (electronic stability control) is not bullet proof. there are scenarios where ESC takes control but due to the extreme condition of the vehicle speed, road surface,etc the car itself just loses control.

Same thing like ABS, doesn't mean you can go 80kph in a 60 zone on a rainy day and hopefully you can stop in time.

there are limits to everything :)

(do a driving technique course, use your car n you'll learn alot)

Edited October 12, 2008 by leasaunce

[tekkyy]

any recommendations for venues to test these things

from Sydney

I want it to simulate real road surfaces though

(otherwise could just to go to a friend in the rural and drive around their dirt yard)

One of the worst things to do with an FWD car when you start to lose traction, it to make sudden changes in Braking or accelerating. If you start to notice some tyre squeal ease off the power and maintain acceleration.

is that right?

what about understeering on FWD?

accelerating is not good but I thought braking is good

[Pumped]

Do your braking pre turn

Accelerate out once straight

Ultimately wheels struggle to accelerate/brake/turn at the same time

you want to roll through a corner

brake first, roll through, accelerate out in front wheel drive

ive driven quite a few powerful front wheel drive cars, You've just got to learn the limit, its easy to exceed it, but generally is a lot easier to correct then in a rear wheel drive where youve come in to hard

Stability control can be pretty impressive, never tested the aurions but in my previous car it helped alot under brakes to get round a corner where id find a car without would of just gone straight

[Blind Kid Seeks]

any recommendations for venues to test these things

from Sydney

I want it to simulate real road surfaces though

(otherwise could just to go to a friend in the rural and drive around their dirt yard)

One of the worst things to do with an FWD car when you start to lose traction, it to make sudden changes in Braking or accelerating. If you start to notice some tyre squeal ease off the power and maintain acceleration.

is that right?

what about understeering on FWD?

accelerating is not good but I thought braking is good

If you are too sudden you can get whats called "Lift Off Oversteer" which is oversteer created by a shift in the cars centre of gravity... You can generate Lift off oversteer in round abouts... or off camber corners... if you are accelleratign through the round about/corner and suddenly take your foot off the Gas pedal.. the car feels like it lurches forward as the weight shifts... and the back of the car can start to wiggle about.

If you are understeering.. ease off to a point where you stop sliding and maintain the throttle position.... so the FWD has a massive advantage over RWD with the ability to accelerate out of corners earlier... use the transmission to help pull you through... as long as you have traction... you're winning.

[dave262]

I've brought my car up a couple of times to <undisclosed mountainous road> to try and get it to its limits. The difficulty is trying to get over the fear of the car "losing" it on a turn and heading straight into the guard rail or worse still, another vehicle. I've managed to do some corners pretty quickly, so much so that the wheels start to squeal, but traction control has not intervened so far. My question is, how safe is the vehicle stability system on the Aurion, and can I rely on it to get me out of a spin or loss of control? Right now, the moment I hear the tyres squeal, I cut the power or try not to turn as sharply. Should I ignore the squeal and keep turning and keep the power on, relying on the VSC to keep the vehicle in line?

If you are just trying to get used to how the safety systems work, I would not recommend doing this on a mountain road!... not the safest place to choose for "testing" such a thing.

As others have mentioned, go to somewhere like a car park after hours and work out what it's capable of, and remember that these systems are designed to prevent you from losing complete control - not as a test to see how far you can take the car before you crash!

The stability control on the Aurion I have found in particular on gravel roads is incredible! Driving around some hills during a camping trip some time ago, I was driving around corners and noticed that the car seems to handle beautifully going around corners - so much so that it felt like a 4WD! It is a slightly disconcerting feeling when it does kick in, as it does seem to grab the steering a little and does some really interesting tricks with the braking system to keep the car on the road. Going around corners, I would not have believed the road was gravel or that the car was FWD due to the way it was handling...

I have only had to experience this system on a main road twice however, once being a real situation where I had a hoon try and push me off the road and had to do a huge swerve to avoid him. In this case, the car handled exactly as you see the car in the Hyundai ads when a truck pulls out in front of it - it just swerves around quickly without any problems. Going around a sharp corner and losing traction - i'm not sure how it would behave as I have never hit the speed at which it kicks in.

[Supercharged TRD]

Thanks guys. I will be bringing it around a car park after hours to see its limits. I'll do it once my OBD2 scanner cable arrives so I can capture some "hard" data to show.

[BONDEE]

maaaannnnn... i love my RWD s14! it really is easier! but im learnign slowly on the FWD! :)

[Stealth]

Firstly, if you want to test out the ABS and VSC, take it somewhere where you can do hard turns and whatnot without fear of hitting anything or anyone. I took mine down to the local parking lot and tested out the ABS and VSC. This was the first car that I have ever tested ABS on and it was certainly quite a lot to get it there on dry road. The VSC is an interesting one when you experience it doing it job. You really need to test it out on some 'safe road' before pushing your limits elsewhere. It's the weirdest feeling when the VSC kicks in. It's like the car is floating on a guided track.

Every so often when taking certain turns (like ones that I drive through often), I like to push the car that little bit harder when the road is clear. In those cases, if you push it a little too much you can usually feel when the VSC kicks in to keep everything on track. At that point you know when it's time to back off. Usually, so long as you don't do anything stupid crazy, the VSC kicking in will give you a good indication when you are pushing it just that little bit too much, and gives you enough time to ease off and not get into a mess.

I couldn't agree more. I've done the same thing. The VSC has literally saved me from a guard rail on a corner during my overzealous pursuit of a Skyline. I dove into the corner with minimal and late braking, taking a good line in, but the heavily modified Skyline pulled through the bend and i started to under steering into the guard rail. I was so keen and trusting of the VSC system i stood on the accelerator and turned in harder. The VSC kicked in and almost brought the car to a full stop with my foot hard on the gas. Once the car righted itself, it powered out of the corner.

The advice i give my girlfriend if she drives my car is "Let the car (VSC, EBD & ABS) do the work" if you get into trouble. As in - if she needs to stop in a hurry STAND on the brakes and point the car where you want it to go. Or alternatively, if she were to misjudge a gap in traffic and pull out in front of a speeder STAND on the accelerator and "Let the car (VSC & TRACS) do the work". The VSC was a big selling point for me so i both put a lot of faith in it and put it to work every now and then.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Stealth

[myztik]

wow, i never really cared much for these safety features. i always saw them as gimmicks.

i now stand corrected, looks like these are real life savers.

[DJKOR]

wow, i never really cared much for these safety features. i always saw them as gimmicks.

i now stand corrected, looks like these are real life savers.

Nothing can compare to good driving skills though. But even the best of all driver's can get into a mess. The electroinic safety features are good at filling in the gaps and because you can't always predict the circumstances. Apparently the guys over in the States that drive on roads that can get icy really love how good the traction control is on their Gen6 Camry's which is essentially like our Aurion.

[myztik]

ahh that would explain it, i just rely on my driving ever since so never really used all these safety features besides ABS.

since we have pretty ordinary roads here in perth i guess for the guys in the east its a really good feature. *damn, perth needs snow :(*

[DJKOR]

While still on the traction control topic, one thing I remembered while out tonight is how useful it is to have the traction control especially in the wet. So while my car is in the shop, I've been driving my sister's Mazda3 around. Alright little car with 205 wide tires as standard. The only system it has on it is ABS, so it has definitely been fun doing some stupid things in it that I wouldn't be able to do on the Aurion (the small size is a bonus as well). Anyways, so last night after the rain, I took it out for a spin. The first thing that I remembered with my Aurion in the wet with traction control is this incidence.

Then I headed past this downhill turn around the windy streets in my area. There is this one turn in particular that in the wet, if you take it at just the wrong angle and even at 5km/h below the limit, you have a good chance of sliding out. Reason for that is a stupid manhole cover right on the edge of the turn. So the first time I ever encountered it was in my Camry. The street is pretty wide at that point and in my Camry, I managed to enter an irrecoverable slide (worn down tires didn't help) that sent my car into a 360, after which I pulled out of, continued along, and thought to myself, 'holy sh!t'. My sister has managed to slip there as well in her old Excel, and pull a 180. Needless to say, we now know where not to drive when taking the corner.

So anyways, I get the Aurion and decide to see what the traction control can do. On the first rainy day I get I take it to that wonderful corner. I take the corner on the speed limit and at the appropriate angle needed to slide, then at the point were I felt like the car would slip, I feel the ever so slightest amount of slip and then hear the pulsing of the ABS/VSC actuator. The next feeling is one of the weirdest. The car continues driving along the path that I was directing it in, however it felt like it was hovering on the road and being pushed like a kid playing with a Matchbox car. It really was different.

Took the Mazda3 up to it last night and without the traction control, I could definitely feel some good slide there. The Mazda had some decent grip though and the slide was easy to prevent with minor adjustment (and knowledge of what would happen), but it just goes to show that the traction control is definitely useful to have for the unexpected. For a less experienced driver, something like this could end up more ugly. Like with this turn, it's not something that you would expect by looking at it. It's all due to a manhole cover in the most inconvenient place which is hard to see in the wet. You're average driver may think that they are driving safely, but something like this could throw them off balance and their reaction may not be as great. Like I said earlier; it helps fill the gaps.

[marc2020]

Yea this car is the only car I have had with traction control, and I can see and feel the difference. Gotten me out of a few jams that I know if I had been in my old cars I would have written them off.

[myztik]

yea traction control has saved me once. what happended was i was in a bus stop and was about to pull out of it, instaed of taking it slowly i decided to flaw it *this was in the rain mind you* and the car started to act funny. and thanks to traction control i did not end up ramming the car in the next lane. i was literally inches away from hitting the car but somehow i managed to keep the line that i wanted to. very funny feeling and also the rush that you get as well.

[tekkyy]

Thats pretty much it.

Sure VSC is no subsitute for "good" driving skills.

Safe driving is also not a subsitute for VSC, ABS, etc neither.

These features perform quickly, precisely and robustly in saving your *****.

Accident situations are sudden, uncontrolled, uninformed and urgent.

I wouldn't trust myself with these "skills" from the old time's popular driving courses.

[homer501]

when i first got y sx6 i took it down the great ocean rd all the way to appolo bay and beleive me i was giving it to it all the way in the wet traction control come in on every turn even the hairpins with 35 advised speed limit the yellow signs i was doing over 65 and not once did the feel like i was going to die the only thing i dont like is when you hit a corner fast it feels like you lose all throttle way before you are gonna lose grip also ive noticed while at a freinds place he has a 3 klm driveway alll dirt and heaps of sharp corners so i had some fun and i noticed when you get the car right in the crap ie the back end sliding it starts beeping i think that means you have really got the traction and stability control working or kiss your ***** and say goodbye

[e240]

You guys are hooooons, hoooooons I tells ya...

[myztik]

o is that what the beep is... was wondering what it was.

[DJKOR]

o is that what the beep is... was wondering what it was.

Are you guys saying that when you traction control kicks in, you get an audible signal as well? On mine, all I get is the flashing symbol on the dash cluster.

[myztik]

i dont know bout that, but my expereince with it is that on cruises where i give my car the shiatz and almost redlinning it, i sometimes get this *beep beep* sound. like one of those that tells you that your going over the speed limit *i actually dont have that turn on so it cannot be because of that*. this only happens when im on straight road i think.