FWD Driving Techniques

[SecaBoy]

my traction control light flashes almost everyday... i've never heard a beep before...

[avstral]

o is that what the beep is... was wondering what it was.

Are you guys saying that when you traction control kicks in, you get an audible signal as well? On mine, all I get is the flashing symbol on the dash cluster.

If you go offroad and try to drive it like rally car, TC beeps all the time, so better turn it off if you know what are you doing.

[DJKOR]

If you go offroad and try to drive it like rally car...

Yup... because that's definitely what the Aurion was built to do.

[avstral]

Yup... because that's definitely what the Aurion was built to do.

it happens if you travel a lot. Anyway, just to let you know, TC beeps.

[DJKOR]

Yup... because that's definitely what the Aurion was built to do.

it happens if you travel a lot. Anyway, just to let you know, TC beeps.

Actually, funny that the beep question was brought back up. On my way out tonight, since the road is wet I thought I would give my VSC a run on a closed open area. I guess it really does beep. I was actually expecting the beep to be the one like the seatbelt warning tone, hence why I probably never noticed it. The beep is just a short double higher frequency beep, similar to the hourly beep on a watch. So there you go.

[avstral]

So there you go.

yep. Personally i never experienced it on a tarmac, but on offroad it beepeng non-stop.

[DJKOR]

Firstly, I DO NOT condone 'testing' your VSC system like I have done here. So anyways, since the road was nice and wet, I thought I would have a little 'reasonably controlled' fun. There is quite a bit of industrial estate around here with wide roads and room to spare all around. Needless to say, I took my car for another 'spin', or should I say lack of it. Now I've been here before in my old car so I know the degree in which one can easily spin out. All I can say is that the VSC on the Aurion is pretty f*cking good when in the wet. The one key to making it work effectively though is to NOT try and compensate for any skid. Doing so will create a back and forward correction mess like when you're walking towards someone and step to one side and they do the same, etc.

As mentioned earlier, I found out that the system DOES actually beep when it's doing its job, but it doesn't do it all the time; hence why I never heard it before. If you have some minor slip, like nothing TOO major, the system should remain silent and the VSC light will just flash. However, if you are in a serious situation and the VSC has to work harder, the light will flash and it will give double beeps until it has corrected itself. When the system beeps, you really know that it just saved your a**.

All I can say from this experience is that the VSC does exactly what it is meant to do. It's a weird feeling when it does its job, but at least I feel safer that it can really help out in a unsafe situation. Like I said, you just need to ignore your instinct and not try and forcefully correct it when it slides out. That's the hardest part because when it kicks in, it still feels like you are going to slide out of control, but the car somehow manages to stay on track even though you may feel like it has absolutely no traction.

Anyways, drive responsibly and just keep in mind that the VSC will always be there to help you out and most likely save you, but don't let that assurance replace proper driving techniques.

[lateralus]

All I can say from this experience is that the VSC does exactly what it is meant to do. It's a weird feeling when it does its job, but at least I feel safer that it can really help out in a unsafe situation. Like I said, you just need to ignore your instinct and not try and forcefully correct it when it slides out. That's the hardest part because when it kicks in, it still feels like you are going to slide out of control, but the car somehow manages to stay on track even though you may feel like it has absolutely no traction.

i've never driven a car with vsc before, so i'm not that familiar with the feeling of it doing its magic. however, i thought that in situations of losing traction sideways, etc. that vsc needs to be corrected through steering so that it can regain balance of the car and continue driving where you want to? this is probably different to over correcting to give a fishtailing sort of thing, but im just curious.

[DJKOR]

i've never driven a car with vsc before, so i'm not that familiar with the feeling of it doing its magic. however, i thought that in situations of losing traction sideways, etc. that vsc needs to be corrected through steering so that it can regain balance of the car and continue driving where you want to? this is probably different to over correcting to give a fishtailing sort of thing, but im just curious.

I'm no expert in physics, but I think that the system is able to adjust steering movements by braking and throttle adjustments alone. Say hypothetically that braking pressure was to only be applied to one side of the car. The car would then 'steer' towards the side that the braking is applied on. Based on this concept, the VSC system and pulsate the brake on any wheel individually many times per second to be able to obtain this type of control. The following bit of information gives a brief explanation of how it works in general.

Toyota New Zealand - VSC in Action

[Supercharged TRD]

Did a mountain run this afternoon, and managed to discover something. All along I have been trying hard to keep to the left in a 2 lane situation, but as the speed increased the car rolled over the paint strip in the centre, thus causing the squealing noise. As long as I keep in the centre and keep bitumen under the wheels and not paint, the car had no problem. Yes, I know it's stupid. Oh well, you learn new things every day.

This car has serious grip. I mean, once I realised that paint strip thing and kept to the centre, damn I could not get the car to give up. I seriously do not believe how sticky this car is, considering it is a FWD. I'm not even using the best tyres, just the stock Dunlop Sport Maxx. I threw it around the corners and it was me that got scared before the VSC kicked in. Kick in the power, get into the turn, brake late and hard, clear the apex and then accelerate out of the turn. Good stuff. To make the day even better, I beat a BF F6 Typhoon from a standing start at the lights!!!

My next challenge is to turn off the VSC and try if I can pull this off: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbr1K3uuOPk

Edited November 9, 2008 by TRD Aurion Owner

[notfromthere]

Damn, you must have to get these cars awfully out of shape to get the VSC to light up let alone beep. I've had tyres squealing on windy roads. Good to know I haven't pushed it far enough.

To make the day even better, I beat a BF F6 Typhoon from a standing start at the lights!!!

Well done however it might be a bit hard with the new FG F6's, they had to reduce the kW output to 310kW (approx. 330kW in testing) to lower than that of the FG GT's V8 at 315kW's so as to sell some, which apparently they had well over that in reserve so with some tweaking the new F6 could be a hard act to follow with an additional 90kW's. I don't know if weight would play such a big factor with that much extra power but sure as hell the driver would.

Edited November 9, 2008 by notfromthere

[RXSeven]

I beat a BF F6 Typhoon from a standing start at the lights!!!

1st in to call bs.

[SecaBoy]

I beat a BF F6 Typhoon from a standing start at the lights!!!

1st in to call bs.

1st in to call you an idiot..

if the guy in the typhoon isnt all that good of a driver then, yes, the trd will beat it...

i've raced one from about 40km/h upwards, and he was very slowly pulling away from me...

so considering they have turbo lag, i wouldnt be suprised that the trd beat it from a standing start... wait till in higher speeds and its a completely different story though...

also, PLEASE dont go trying drifting a fwd car on the streets... go to a skid pan and do it there first... its not easy to control fwd drifting at all... tiff makes it look so easy on that video... i just want to tell you ITS NOT EASY!!!

[Supercharged TRD]

I beat a BF F6 Typhoon from a standing start at the lights!!!

1st in to call bs.

Hehe, it's ok I'm not here to prove anything to anyone. :D Perhaps it was a case of lousy driver in a good car, or he just underestimated me just because of the Toyota badge.

First, the disclaimer: as DJKOR and SecaBoy mentioned above, DO NOT try any of this on open roads. The unpredictability of such sudden turns makes it very dangerous when you have people, other cars and objects that you could hit. Also, if your car is brand new I don't recommend you try this just in case you break something, as you would expect doing these things puts a lot of stress on the car. For me, I bought mine 2nd hand so I'm not that heartbroken if something does break, and if it does...just gives me more excuse to buy a new one!! LOL! Yes, the wife's a bit of a tight *****.

Anyway, I can confirm that the VSC makes a blip noise when pushed. Tonight, I brought my car to a deserted car park lot and tried to do the Scandinavian flick. At about 80km/h I executed the maneouvre, flicking the wheel left and then doing a hard right. The VSC went off like a bloody alarm clock! Not a single blip but a whole lot of blips in quick succession. Turned off VSC and did it again, wow SMOKE!!! But it kind of worked, I had a bit of oversteer initially and it was hard to get the timing right so had to give it a few goes (that is why I will never do it on real roads, you never know where your car is pointing at the end of the turn, if you happen to oversteer and spin the car behind you will hit you). Also, I noticed that even with VSC off the car will still force it on if it feels that you are going to kill yourself or the car soon. Seems like that "VSC off" thing only makes it a lot harder to make it come on, but if the car deems that you are about to convert it to a piece of scrap metal, it will still force it on. Anyone else had this experience? Give it a go, find a very empty space, turn off VSC and do like incredibly sharp sustained turns at high speed, and you will see what I mean.

Think I need new tires now, the next set I'm getting are the 19" Bridgestone Adrenalins.

Edited November 9, 2008 by TRD Aurion Owner

[DJKOR]

also, PLEASE dont go trying drifting a fwd car on the streets...

That at the least. NO form of drifting should happen on the streets regardless of the car.

its not easy to control fwd drifting at all

That's no joke as well. On top of that, it's hard enough trying to initiate a drift on a FWD. All my talk here about the VSC has primarily been for a worst case scenario. All my testing for it has been in the wet to simulate the road near it's worst. I've been driving FWD since I got my licence, so I've had a bit of play around in the wet with FWD. If you slide out in the wet in a FWD, once the weight has shifted dramatically, it ain't a fun task to recover. This is why the VSC is really useful and that in the wet or slippery road conditions, you can be sure that it will help you get out of trouble if you unexpectedly cornered a little too hard.

On that note, if the VSC works wonders in the wet, I have no doubt that on dry road it would keep the car perfectly on track. As I will always say though, just remember it is there as a supplemental safety system. Don't go trying to push your car beyond it's limits. If you ever do loose control, it is not a pleasant experience.

[notfromthere]

also, PLEASE dont go trying drifting a fwd car on the streets...

That at the least. NO form of drifting should happen on the streets regardless of the car.

It's a sad sight watching these 'race drivers' in their 180SX's taking on the might of a roundabout. We had a huge roundabout to the rear of the place we used to live and the neighbour and I used to watch them, not because they were good to watch but we would stand there with a beer and laugh our a.rses off when the c.ock smokers slide straight into the gutters and fold their wheels under. Couldn't count how many cars would be left on the side of the road only to be towed away in the morning, but what's even sadder is they would keep going even when people were waiting to enter the roundabout.

[the_random_hero]

The best advice I can give you is to take your car out to a driver training day at a raceway near you - I took my parents AE92 out a couple of years back and I learnt a ridiculous amount from it. I went with Nationwide Defensive Driving School, but there are plenty of others. When I was working with BMW, their driving days are on par as the one I went to, albeit a LOT more expensive and you don't get to drive your own car.

[lateralus]

That at the least. NO form of drifting should happen on the streets regardless of the car.

unless you're this guy, haha

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=hTejrd8uqzE

[notfromthere]

The best advice I can give you is to take your car out to a driver training day at a raceway near you - I took my parents AE92 out a couple of years back and I learnt a ridiculous amount from it. I went with Nationwide Defensive Driving School, but there are plenty of others. When I was working with BMW, their driving days are on par as the one I went to, albeit a LOT more expensive and you don't get to drive your own car.

I've been to Jim Murcotts advanced driving at Sandown Raceway however it was in the company utes we used to drive around. Some of the guys there were taking the wrong thing away from the lessons as you could see that when they got home they would be attempting to brake as late as possible because of what they learnt. Some of it is contradictory to what you learn when going for your license i.e. don't drive with your shoes off, only use 1 foot in an automatic. All of that was thrown out the door at the training.

[the_random_hero]

The best advice I can give you is to take your car out to a driver training day at a raceway near you - I took my parents AE92 out a couple of years back and I learnt a ridiculous amount from it. I went with Nationwide Defensive Driving School, but there are plenty of others. When I was working with BMW, their driving days are on par as the one I went to, albeit a LOT more expensive and you don't get to drive your own car.

I've been to Jim Murcotts advanced driving at Sandown Raceway however it was in the company utes we used to drive around. Some of the guys there were taking the wrong thing away from the lessons as you could see that when they got home they would be attempting to brake as late as possible because of what they learnt. Some of it is contradictory to what you learn when going for your license i.e. don't drive with your shoes off, only use 1 foot in an automatic. All of that was thrown out the door at the training.

There was a bit of that happening down in Sydney - they went through all the safety aspects, taught us braking, getting out of skids, etc then cut us loose on the track to go as quick as we could. The other day I got in a situation where I was heading for a ditch with my front wheels locked, remembering what I had been taught at the training I managed to get out of it and somewhat gracefully skid to a stop. Got plenty of looks from the people at the service station :P

[notfromthere]

There was a bit of that happening down in Sydney - they went through all the safety aspects, taught us braking, getting out of skids, etc then cut us loose on the track to go as quick as we could. The other day I got in a situation where I was heading for a ditch with my front wheels locked, remembering what I had been taught at the training I managed to get out of it and somewhat gracefully skid to a stop. Got plenty of looks from the people at the service station :P

For sure it helps immensely in that regard, i would recommend it to anyone and everyone to do at least the introductory course. There were guys in their VS SS Commondores who they they were g.od's gift to the motoring fraternity who, as it turns out, didn't know a g.od damn thing about braking, swerving etc. except for doing donuts. I still to this day use most of what i learnt back then if in an awkward situation on the road. Very very helpful, i might do the Offensive Driving course next time...

[the_random_hero]

There was a bit of that happening down in Sydney - they went through all the safety aspects, taught us braking, getting out of skids, etc then cut us loose on the track to go as quick as we could. The other day I got in a situation where I was heading for a ditch with my front wheels locked, remembering what I had been taught at the training I managed to get out of it and somewhat gracefully skid to a stop. Got plenty of looks from the people at the service station :P

For sure it helps immensely in that regard, i would recommend it to anyone and everyone to do at least the introductory course. There were guys in their VS SS Commondores who they they were g.od's gift to the motoring fraternity who, as it turns out, didn't know a g.od damn thing about braking, swerving etc. except for doing donuts. I still to this day use most of what i learnt back then if in an awkward situation on the road. Very very helpful, i might do the Offensive Driving course next time...

I loved the guys in the VT SS's who were getting their ***** handed to them by and AE92 and a EP82 Starlet GT :P Power to weight FTW.

[notfromthere]

I loved the guys in the VT SS's who were getting their ***** handed to them by and AE92 and a EP82 Starlet GT :P Power to weight FTW.

Yeah, they (VS/VT SS's) aren't the nimblest of cars (if stock) on the driving courses. Funny watching them when the weight of the car shifts and they can't hold it, needless to say it opened their eyes and hopefully slowed them down on the road.

Here's some trivia for ya's which I learnt at the courses some years ago: On winding roads they have a yellow sign with a speed limit posted (lower than that of the actual speed limit) does anyone know what that speed is there for?

It wouldn't surprise me if people in this forum knew the answer as you are all knowledgeable people, most other people I run this by get it wrong.

[avstral]

Here's some trivia for ya's which I learnt at the courses some years ago: On winding roads they have a yellow sign with a speed limit posted (lower than that of the actual speed limit) does anyone know what that speed is there for?

They give you idea what kind of curve you heading to.

Edited November 14, 2008 by avstral

[notfromthere]

They give you idea what kind of curve you heading to.

I actually remembered where I was told this information and it wasn't at the defensive driving course it was while obtaining my motorbike license. Apparently, the yellow signs are supposed to a 'safe braking speed' so one can safely pull over quickly if there is an accident etc around the corner.

I have taken the instructors word for it and have not investigated it for myself so i could stand to be corrected.