[Updated links now with pics] 2ZZGE-New Intake Manifold - Street version with Q45 Throttle body

[SuperDave]

Remember this IM has been designed for whatever cams are in the test engine (stock?). So if you go put some nice sexy Stage 2 Piper cams in, it all goes to wall, and you could actually lose power relative to the stock cams (maybe not across the whole rev range, but still...).

Gav.

I think stage 2 would make more power. On the intake camshaft the stage 2 cams have more lift than stock. Since the IM reduces the restriction on the intake side this will then allow the engine to take in more air even though the duration is reduced. Just go stage 3, you know you want to

Xoom: Do you do track days with the AC on "just because I can"?

[chicaboo]

This IM will be developing 3rd and 4th order helmholtz resonance to achieve figures like it does.

If one changes the cam profile, the the rpm range at which these resonances occur will fly out the window.

So they will potentially not get to the ideal 3rd order resonance, and they might have to settle for 4th and 5th order at best.

Bah, it's all fancy BS, but it's worth matching the air flow and runner size of the plenum to the cam profiles (and intake) for maximum power output. :D

Nah, I'm not that much into the Stage 3s because of the pronounced step in power, so Stage 2s will do just fine. :) It's bad enough as it is, I want it linear! :P

Gav.

[DANZZT231]

[SILVABULLIT]

Bill is probably laughing at this right now, squabbling over little increase in power

lol ..... yes i am ..... several clicks of the boost controller to the left nets the same results .... i.e. an increase in 30HP .... lol

but hey ..... i guess it all helps right

only 30hp....such a tiny amount, not sure I would even notice :P

well i could push the happy button for a net of 80HP if that makes it any better for u north :P :P :P :P

yeah but even with that extra 80hp you are still behind North by nearly 200hp LOL......

[whitestivo]

i'm only a second behind northy in street trim.

having said that, there is no chance of me getting this. going to have to pray my exhaust delivers 1.3 seconds to take Northy down.

couple of other quiter mods planned, so we'll see in July.

whitestivo

[chicaboo]

When the TX3 has been chipped and cam'd with the LSD, I will be chasing 1.03 just to stuff all of you's up! :P

Current power won't be that amazing, only around 100kW ATW @ 11psi. My target power will be 130kW ATW @ 16psi after the above.

I have to go see Trevor (CES) about a nice m/s 2.5" turbo back exhaust for it yet. Dam, it never ends...

Gav.

[whitestivo]

gav

your dreaming!

and that is first ever time i've used one of those stpid things.. hahaha

whitestivo

[xoom]

Xoom: Do you do track days with the AC on "just because I can"?

ofcourse i do ..... u should know this by now :P :P :P :P :P

only 30hp....such a tiny amount, not sure I would even notice :P

well i could push the happy button for a net of 80HP if that makes it any better for u north :P :P :P :P

yeah but even with that extra 80hp you are still behind North by nearly 200hp LOL......

true true ..... however even then i still do believe he is seeing the rear end of the rolla down the straight :P :P :P :P :P .... wat were those 1/4 times corey ;) ;) ;)

[Suprathai]

Bump

Updated with links to the pictures of production models. Unfortunately price will deter most, given our poor exchange rate. Now just waiting to see independent dynos

[chicaboo]

The costs don't end there unfortunately. As you need a slimline radiator fan, and then you have to replace/relocate the overflow bottle too. Oh yes, and you can throw away your existing CAI too. At least the new CAI might be as simple as one bend if it can pass infront of the battery...

But then again, it makes double the power that Stage 2 Pipe cams do, and it costs the same by the time you consider valves/springs/shims/installation.

Did $1200 also include the cost of the Q45 TB? What vehicle is the Q45 TB out of? And what size is the OD and butterfly? I think the Sportivo TB is 3" OD, and I'm guessing that the butterfly is up to 10mm smaller at most.

Cheers, Gav.

EDIT: Best I can tell, the Q45 is 90mm OD and is off an VH45DE Nissan motor? That sounds rediculously huge!

[Suprathai]

The TB for the Q45 indeed is 90mm, standard TB size on the sportivo is 63mm I think. Yeah all the other associated cost easliy blows this mod to over $2000.

Not to mention, with a CAI you'll be maxing out the stock injectors.

So for this mod to work with most common bolt ons

Relocation of coolant tank

Possible slimline radiator

Engine mounts(??)

440cc injectors if you have CAI and Exhaust which most people do

Emanage to tune the new injector flow at a bare minmum

New fuel filter if your one is too old

My dilemma is that I have all of those things

[chicaboo]

Are you one to leave things half done? ;)

[whitestivo]

Gav

I don't understand what this is doing. I mean I read the post, but TB and stuff, little confused.

I'm not going to get one (unless I can sell your sills for mega bucks!) I would just like a laymans terms of explaining what the disckens is going on

My trd is 2.75"from memory, teh CES is 3", and I don't think that needs new injectors.

whitestivo

[Suprathai]

In a nutshell, its apparantly the single bolt on mod that produces the highest power gain to date.

Basically its a new intake manifold for the 2zzge.

Most people know the general mods that are performed on most n/a engines. For the corolla, its usually in this order in terms of engine mods

General mods

CAI

Exhaust

Headers

ECU

You can then head towards

Cams (which needs new uprated valve springs and valves for added reliability up top)

Port and polishing

Hi-Comp pistons

Completed balanced bottom end and ancillaries

Towards the later stages you won't get much of a power hike and you will be spending really big. Restriction could be head design and in this instances the manifolds appears to be a restriction as well.

This intake manifold to date is showing very promising results, with up to 16kw (kinda corrected for the US over inflated figures) at the wheels. Which is huge in anyones terms for a 1.8L n/a engine.

With the injectors, its been reported that its maxing out or running at almost full duty in 3rd (4th?? can't remember) gear during dyno runs. You need more fuel delivered once your producing considerably more power then stock. Stock injectors are at 315cc I believ on a 2zz, depending on which version (I remember a 330cc one as well).

[chicaboo]

Gav

I don't understand what this is doing. I mean I read the post, but TB and stuff, little confused.

I'm not going to get one (unless I can sell your sills for mega bucks!) I would just like a laymans terms of explaining what the disckens is going on

My trd is 2.75"from memory, teh CES is 3", and I don't think that needs new injectors.

whitestivo

In addition to what Mr Thai is saying, this intake manifold has tuned length runners with velocity stacks to achieve what's called Helmholtz resonance.

Helmholtz resonance causes sound waves to reflect back and forth from the valve to the plenum which causes an intake scavenging effect.

You get different stages of this effect occurring at various revs. The ideal is to achieve the highest order resonance you can, just prior to your rev limit.

The problem is, is that the power gain is dependant on consistent values, ie: intake, throttle body, cams, exhaust, etc...

So changing one of these variables can decrease the power gain, or at worst, entirely stuff it up so that it's totally gay...

Because of the fear of the last option, ppl tend to sit back and watch and wait for independent dyno readings that they can compare with their own mods.

Be warned: This is an extremely loud intake modification! And you can't put an varex intake on this baby... :P

Gav.

[the_random_hero]

Gav

I don't understand what this is doing. I mean I read the post, but TB and stuff, little confused.

I'm not going to get one (unless I can sell your sills for mega bucks!) I would just like a laymans terms of explaining what the disckens is going on

My trd is 2.75"from memory, teh CES is 3", and I don't think that needs new injectors.

whitestivo

In addition to what Mr Thai is saying, this intake manifold has tuned length runners with velocity stacks to achieve what's called Helmholtz resonance.

Helmholtz resonance causes sound waves to reflect back and forth from the valve to the plenum which causes an intake scavenging effect.

You get different stages of this effect occurring at various revs. The ideal is to achieve the highest order resonance you can, just prior to your rev limit.

The problem is, is that the power gain is dependant on consistent values, ie: intake, throttle body, cams, exhaust, etc...

So changing one of these variables can decrease the power gain, or at worst, entirely stuff it up so that it's totally gay...

Because of the fear of the last option, ppl tend to sit back and watch and wait for independent dyno readings that they can compare with their own mods.

Be warned: This is an extremely loud intake modification! And you can't put an varex intake on this baby... :P

Gav.

Pretty close, but it's a pulse of air - not sound :) Pretty complicated maths goes into it (as we were talking about the other night), a lot of it comes down to trial and error because, as you've said, if even one variable is out a bit, it will totally change the resonant point.

[whitestivo]

thanks guys, i appreciate the info

so just changing the manifold and nothing else may actually do very little

i spent the time and read the thread, and notes that if you still run trd cai and stock ecu can use the manifold

as stated though, could say goodbye to any gains right?

whitestivo

[the_random_hero]

thanks guys, i appreciate the info

so just changing the manifold and nothing else may actually do very little

i spent the time and read the thread, and notes that if you still run trd cai and stock ecu can use the manifold

as stated though, could say goodbye to any gains right?

whitestivo

Actually the opposite - changing the manifold only a couple of other things should give you the best gains. You'd need tuned length extractors to suit the manifold (factory ones probably won't flow enough), and your CAI won't physically fit.