Alert to V-6 owners - possible oil leak!

[junebug1701]

I just wanted to alert everyone here about a possible design defect in the 2GR-FE V-6 engine. There have been many reports about an oil line leaking/rupturing causing catastrophic loss of oil in Avalons, Camrys, and RAV4's with the V-6. Here is some information I've cobbled up from several forums:

There is a TSB out for the newer Avalons concerning a small pinhole leak from the rear bank VVTI oil feed hose which can grow into a larger leak, and in some cases, cause catastrophic failure due to lack of oil in the system.

The problem is that Toyota has ONLY issued a TSB for the Avalon, even though this EXACT same condition can (and has) happened on ALL Toyota vehicles using the 2GR engine. This is causing a MAJOR headache for dealerships (especially the people that handle the paperwork), along with the customers that go through this problem.

Try calling a Toyota dealer and ask for the parts department. Ask the guy for Part 15772-31030 "Pipe Sub-AS". When they tell you its on national backorder ask them why. From what I can tell the V6 engine, a 2GR-FE is also used in the Avalon, Sienna, RAV4, Lexus ES and RX 350 models, Highlander and Previa.

The part # 15707-31030 is the one with the rubber connection.

The replacement part that was installed in all of the RAV4s Limited V6s on 04/2008 and later is metal and the part number is 15772-31030.

Here is the Avalon TSB:

It's a little hard to see from the picture, but that hose that is circled is whats causing the problems. its the connection between two preformed metal hoses and banjo fittings, one of which goes up and over the valve cover to the VVTI (as you can see in the pic), and the other loops around the back side of the bank and is connected to the block's oil feed.

Here's a picture of the line with the rubber hose from a 2006 RAV4:

And here's the same part on a 2008 RAV4 built after the 04/08 upgrade. Notice the all-metal line:

So any of you V-6 owners who are curious should go out and check to see what version you have. It might help to pop off the plastic engine cover to see more clearly. If you do have the rubber hose keep an eye on it and your oil level. Hopefully, Toyota will issue more TSB's for the other models.

Here are more examples from other forums:

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/rav4...rav-4-v-6-lost/

http://www.camryforums.com/forum/showthrea...19036#post19036

http://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Avalon...ing_light.shtml

Edited March 6, 2009 by junebug1701

[lateralus]

sigh. how i love the 1mz-fe

that really sucks though. aren't the 2gr-fe engines used in the lexus rx as well? i don't think theres been problems with them

[junebug1701]

sigh. how i love the 1mz-fe

that really sucks though. aren't the 2gr-fe engines used in the lexus rx as well? i don't think theres been problems with them

You're right, used in the Lexus RX350. But I think the engine appeared first in the 2005 Avalon, and as those and the '06's start to get older, this problem may crop up more often.

Edited March 6, 2009 by junebug1701

[Keisari]

I just wanted to alert everyone here about a possible design defect in the 2GR-FE V-6 engine. <snip>

That was some really good information. I don't have a 2GR-FE, but thanks for posting.

[lateralus]

australian avalon's only have the 1mz-fe, however. so this would only affect aurions and lexus drivers. luckily i don't think anyone here has reported having oil leaks on an aurion as the problem (which originated in 2005 as per the tsb) would most likely have been recognised quickyl, and taken into consideration in the development of the aurion.

[e240]

That bulletin was in 2005.

You'd think they'd address the issue at least from 2007 onwards, otherwise, they'd just be plain dumb.

Recalls like this cost money and it'll be something they'd fix on the production line.

[ASG14]

I think I remember something about this a while ago......I'll have to ask my dealer on Sat when I go in.

[stessey]

SHAME SHAME SHAME TOYOTA OH WHAT A "NOT" FEELING - What about the owners of the vehicles purchased in 2000. Toyota Australia has remained silent on the issue even with the legal trouble they had in US and they continue to deny deny deny. SHAME ON TOYOTA. Toyota Australia failed to notify its customers in 2002 when it was aware of the possible design defect and has continued to blame its customers and hiding behind its maintenance schedule. It will not be too long before S*** hits the fan here with Toyota as I am now discovering.

You are far from alone!

Toyota began hiding the truth about its engine oil sludge way back in 1994.

The same story is being said over and over and over again. Engines gunking up or throwing rods---sometimes even catching fire all while Toyota pointed the finger at the owners. Meanwhile, a few Toyota personnel admitted to seeing the problem in the dealerships a lot. More and more information came out and more and more owner outrage did, too. Finally in 2002 Toytoa USA was forced to come out with the CSP "Customer Support Program" in 2002. But what about Australia Toyota. No they chose to remain quiet with its customers and keep blaming its customers even whilst they were aware of the problems.

Toyota just denies denies denies hoping that no one will notice. It will take a lot of owner outcry and some media coverage to make Toyota act. The media shields Toyota for the most part. Owners have to be diligent and persevere, but results can be achieved.

It will take a hungry consumer reporter to cover this saga---I mean really dig deeply into it and discover the truth! The internet has been stripped of the original Toyota engine oil sludge discussions----POOF! I am told that the sites had been hacked---ultimately permanently. Toyota was the company with the most complaints on that consumer site! There were ten thousand postings mostly about the sludge problem when the site went down!

There are "regulars" on most of the car sites that will "intervene" when Toyota owners complain so be aware.

[ASG14]

Toyota began hiding the truth about its engine oil sludge way back in 1994.

99% of the sludge issues ARE due to people not doing oil changes.

I only know of 1 person personally that had a legitimate sludge issue when doing proper oil changes. The '92-'96 Camry's here in the US, if proper maintmence done, did not sludge.

Granded, I'm not saying there was a slight design defect, but most issues were caused by the owner. My dad rarely does oil changes. My 1st car he gave to me. At times he went 15k miles without changing oil. Sold the damn car, still running decent, at 190k miles.

But considering that was your 1st post, I;m goign to guess you own a Holden?

/end rant

[lateralus]

I am told that the sites had been hacked---ultimately permanently.

ultimately permanently? OMG!!!!

thats even worse than indefinitely forever!

on another note, i notice you have no proof to back up your claims. too much of saying "they" and "someone told me"

i guess every toyota owner on here has a magic toyota fairy that comes and washes away sludge in the middle of the night so no one knows about the whole issue? get real.

Edited April 2, 2009 by lateralus

[1956kiteboarder]

Just picked up the parts and three special washers.

part numbers :

15772-31030 pipe oil 2

90430-16012 gasket

90430-16017 gasket

90430-16016 gasket

Toyota Marin wants $450 to install, they say they need to remove the power steering fluid pump to get in there?

The local alternative to the dealer is Japan motors and they want $300.

I probably over reacted in buying these parts since my car is 16 months old with 23,000 miles, since the car is still under warranty.

On that TSB for the Avalon, it does not mention having to remove anything other than the timing cover #2, but that engine compartment is bigger .

I will put the parts in the closet for latter.

Regarding the old oil sludge problem on v6's, my old 1998 Camry went 283,000 miles with no problems what ever, the car never left me on the side of the road.

[aussie01]

Hi guys,

Just had this exact thing happen to my '07 RX 350. It happened on the way home (on Friday afternoon, June 19) I noticed a smokey haze coming from under the bonnet. I pulled over and saw oil dripping parallel to the driver's side front tyre. There were no warning indicators and the temp gauge was where it normally sits. I was about 2 k's away from my dealer so I drove it cautiously (30 to 40 kph and under 1500 RPM) to them. As soon as I described my problem they immediately said, oh, this is a known issue, it will be the oil hose/pipe between the Vs. They took a quick look, then called spares to see if there was one in stock. They gave me a courtesy car and said it should be fixed on Monday afternoon (today). I am waiting to hear back from them.

I'm glad I caught the leak in its early stages and that I was so close to the dealer, but, if it is a known issue, why then, don't they issue a TSB for ALL models using this engine.

I'll let you know how I go once they've called me and I've collected my vehicle.

[Speedz]

i better go to my nearest dealer too to have it check...

did DJKOR said the leak usually occurs at about 60k km pt? My Aurion is about 44k km atm...

[aussie01]

i better go to my nearest dealer too to have it check...

did DJKOR said the leak usually occurs at about 60k km pt? My Aurion is about 44k km atm...

Lexus called yesterday and I picked up my RX after work. When I got there I asked them what they knew about it. They said it was a common problem for the '05 and '06 models and that they had sent my part away for analysis. They are also bemused as to why their parent company (Toyota) hasn't released a TSB covering other models than the Aurion.

They told me my RX had only lost about a litre of oil, so no worries RE: damage to anything.

Apparently it took them hours to degrease/high pressure water blast my engine/engine bay clean, as well as under the car. They do do a great job with car detailing.

[David the Viking]

i better go to my nearest dealer too to have it check...

did DJKOR said the leak usually occurs at about 60k km pt? My Aurion is about 44k km atm...

The US guys are having the problem around 60,000 miles (100,000 kms).

I have a pipe on order but it has to come from Japan. $45 with the gaskets. :)

[aussie01]

i better go to my nearest dealer too to have it check...

did DJKOR said the leak usually occurs at about 60k km pt? My Aurion is about 44k km atm...

The US guys are having the problem around 60,000 miles (100,000 kms).

I have a pipe on order but it has to come from Japan. $45 with the gaskets. :)

My RX had done 95,305 clicks when it sprung a leak. So their stats are pretty spot on.

SupaTouring, if you or anyone else is in need of one in a hurry, Lexus (Parramatta) spares have them in stock. Not sure of the price though.

[DJKOR]

I still have to order mine. I'm a little bit lazy at the moment. Since mine is coming up to that point in time when it is meant to occur, I am keeping a good eye on it. I'm only going to fix it when it gives way. Not because I am THAT lazy, but so I can document the time it fails. I now carry a few bits and pieces in the glove box to (hopefully) fix it temporarily if and when it eventually goes.

[David the Viking]

i better go to my nearest dealer too to have it check...

did DJKOR said the leak usually occurs at about 60k km pt? My Aurion is about 44k km atm...

The US guys are having the problem around 60,000 miles (100,000 kms).

I have a pipe on order but it has to come from Japan. $45 with the gaskets. :)

My RX had done 95,305 clicks when it sprung a leak. So their stats are pretty spot on.

SupaTouring, if you or anyone else is in need of one in a hurry, Lexus (Parramatta) spares have them in stock. Not sure of the price though.

Thanks for the tip. Mine is only up to 43K so I am happy to wait till it comes in and hopefully have it for fitting at the next service.

[Speedz]

So how much does it take to get it done at the dealer service for the Aurion anyone tired yet? :P

Or you reckon this can be done by a local mechanic who knows his stuff?

[DJKOR]

Well it looks like I have myself a task for the weekend. I guess I'll give it a shot first and if I'm not that skilled, I'll get Toyota to do it on the next service in 5000km.

I headed into my local Toyota spare parts department (because they give me trade price there), and inquired about the part. It brought up a diagram on the screen which showed the rubber hose however. The guy said that they don't actually have it in stock, but it was showing them available at Lexus just down the road. He said he will give them a call and ask them to look at it, and when he called up, the guy on the other end knew exactly what he was looking for.

So I headed down to Lexus, and now I have all the bits I need to swap them over.

[1stKill]

Well it looks like I have myself a task for the weekend. I guess I'll give it a shot first and if I'm not that skilled, I'll get Toyota to do it on the next service in 5000km.

I headed into my local Toyota spare parts department (because they give me trade price there), and inquired about the part. It brought up a diagram on the screen which showed the rubber hose however. The guy said that they don't actually have it in stock, but it was showing them available at Lexus just down the road. He said he will give them a call and ask them to look at it, and when he called up, the guy on the other end knew exactly what he was looking for.

So I headed down to Lexus, and now I have all the bits I need to swap them over.

Good work Daryl...and if you don't mind me asking how much was the part & is this not covered under warranty?

[DJKOR]

Good work Daryl...and if you don't mind me asking how much was the part & is this not covered under warranty?

The pipe plus gaskets set me back $45.30 including GST. When the guy from Toyota called to say I was on my way there (to Lexus), he told the guy at Lexus to sell it to me at trade price. I don't think he did/could since $45 seems to be the going price for these parts.

I'm sure it would be covered under warranty, but I couldn't be bothered trying to jump through their hoops. My guess is that they will only change it once it leaks or until a TSB is released (which as far as I'm aware, there isn't), which is just too risky. I never asked them though so that's just a prediction.

[corhijas]

gday all

just out of curiosity-is this still a problem with 09 aurions or is it confined to earlier models

thanks corey

[DJKOR]

just out of curiosity-is this still a problem with 09 aurions or is it confined to earlier models

I think the Aurion was only fixed a few months into 2009. The best way to tell is by looking under the bonnet for yourself.

[1stKill]

Thanks Daryl,yeah around $50 and whack it on yourself seems like the go...but i might just check with my dealer and see what they have to say about it next service,maybe save myself $50 and no dirty hands. :D