Buying a ZZE123R?

[sickular.]

As some of you may know I'm selling my R34 in hopes to buy myself a nice 2003+ Sportivo. Test drove a stock standard one today (73km) and was impressed, and could only see it getting ALOT better driving one with a few mods (lowered suspention, exhaust, CAI .... supercharged?? )

But during my internet research I stumbled across this rather negative opinion of the ZZE123R and overall build quality of the Sportivo's taken from a thread at rollaclub.com

The ZZE123R Sportivo Corolla's are nice, but quality wise they are buckets of *******. Made in Southafrica, they are riddled with problems. From Noisy heater box mechanisms, from new battery's failing at any one moment with collapsed cells, upholstery that doesn't fit or even gets stitched correctly, panels that don't line up on the outside, UN matched brake compounds for the Australian conditions, creaking doors and panels, bad engine vibrations felt throughout the vehicle, water leaks, 2nd rate shockies and a long range transmission thats ALWAYS bearing-noisy to match; you'd have to be keen to pay $20,000 + for a 2nd hand south African, and hope to god its still in warranty. With that said, they are still an absolute hoot to drive, and have a gut full of poke .

Oh, heres something to ponder over.

KE** - 1966 to 1984 - give or take, 20 yrs - F*ing champion motor. Simple, Cheap, No power, Thrash happy.

AE** - 1983 to 2002 - give or take, 20 yrs - had a few issues in the early days, proved there reliability in my books.

ZZE*** - 2001 to 2006 - 5 years. It was a $h!t motor on paper, It was a $h!t prototype. It was a $h!tly build, and there still $h!t today. Not much has changed. excessively noisy, prone to valve train noise and breaking tensioners, blow by and doesn't like ANY sludge. Hope your religious and like oil changes. Oh, and if you think its rattling? it probably is.

ZRE*** - 2006 to ___ - Yeah, lets see how it goes. Appears to be a LOT better motor.

Link: http://www.rollaclub.com/board/?showtopic=16228 ...Post #8

Now I'm not thinking that his word is the be all and end all, but the guy is admin on the board with 7000+ posts so I'm guessing he knows abit about abit.

Is there any truth to his statements? Have you guys had any problems or heard of any problems similar?

Like I said the one I took for a test drive today was awesome (though the engine was a bit 'noisey') and seemed to be good build quality.

While on the topic is there anything in particular I should look out for? There are a few of Sportivo's getting closer to the 150,000km mark and I guess build quality starts to show about then.

Also how long do you guys plan to keep your Sportivo? For me if I get one it will probly be with me for a very long time, or until it dies. You guys reckon they will still be running well over 200,00km?

[SuperDave]

Trust nothing you read on rollaclub about the zze's, search around here for your information. That fella just sounds like a compulsive whinger.

I'm yet to see panel gaps that are any worse than other cars.

Never heard of them leaking water. But a door seal costs 2/5ths of stuff all.

The engine is bullet proof provided you don't mis-shift, in which case thats operator error.

Sludge is another operator error.

Unmatched brake compounds???

I've found the batteries to fail just like any other, 2-3 years is all you can really expect from an OEM battery. You get the odd one that dies younger and the odd one that lasts longer.

'2nd rate shockies' would mean he was a tight **** and thought he could lower it by 50mm and think they wouldn't wear out.

'Long range transmission'?? Does he mean short ratio gearbox?

As for running past 200,000km, just like any car, treat it well and it'll last.

[kolourhero]

^ what superdave said.

But on the topic, i still have my stock battery.. I have an 03 sportivo and it's lasted this long.

[farhan]

I Can say this much i have a 2zzge engine i downshifted at around 100mph....i luckily managed to just get a blown clutch and flywheel. no transmission damage, no engine damage. To me this engine is class!

Dont go do what i did though but the 2zz-ge is a quality engine i reckon!

[Suprathai]

Obviously a guy that does not know how to draw comparisons.

Ae1xx vs zze12x, take your pick

Got to admit that the build quality of the sportivos are not as good as the japanese corollas, but you barely notice it. NVH was never a plus on this series corolla, but if your a modder it doesn't matter.

At the end of the day, its what suits your needs.

Most of the guys on twin cam are in love with their Ae series corolla, just like how the guys here love their zze corollas.

Should throw that question up on a civic forum! :D

[chicaboo]

The guy that wrote that article is a douche...

Only problems you will consistently get are:

1. Clunky/resistant shifting with gearbox (2nd & 4th particularly).

2. Dash vibration when accelerating (could be the complex headunit mounting).

3. Vibration somewhere on over-run when decelerating (could be shift cables).

4. Groaning front brakes (when you fix them, the noise comes back in 2 weeks).

5. Cold start hesitation on some cars (mine has this quite bad, think I've fixed it now).

I've never seen any issue with panel gaps on cars that haven't had a nudge from another car.

My gearbox has started leaking since ABS at Springwood touched it, before that it was fine. :(

Gav.

[SuperDave]

Only problems you will consistently get are:

1. Clunky/resistant shifting with gearbox (2nd & 4th particularly).

2. Dash vibration when accelerating (could be the complex headunit mounting).

3. Vibration somewhere on over-run when decelerating (could be shift cables).

4. Groaning front brakes (when you fix them, the noise comes back in 2 weeks).

5. Cold start hesitation on some cars (mine has this quite bad, think I've fixed it now).

For example I've had none of these problems. Just the clutch adjustment issue which affected about 1/2 the pre facelift Sportivos; and is easily fixed.

[Suprathai]

The guy that wrote that article is a douche...

Only problems you will consistently get are:

1. Clunky/resistant shifting with gearbox (2nd & 4th particularly).

2. Dash vibration when accelerating (could be the complex headunit mounting).

3. Vibration somewhere on over-run when decelerating (could be shift cables).

4. Groaning front brakes (when you fix them, the noise comes back in 2 weeks).

5. Cold start hesitation on some cars (mine has this quite bad, think I've fixed it now).

I've never seen any issue with panel gaps on cars that haven't had a nudge from another car.

My gearbox has started leaking since ABS at Springwood touched it, before that it was fine. :(

Gav.

I've only had issues with the clunky shifting, but that was kinda fixed with a heavier gearknob (TRD SS didn't really help :P)

[123R-Prozak]

I Can say this much i have a 2zzge engine i downshifted at around 100mph....i luckily managed to just get a blown clutch and flywheel. no transmission damage, no engine damage. To me this engine is class!

Dont go do what i did though but the 2zz-ge is a quality engine i reckon!

was doing 120km/h.. in 6th gear, down shifted to 4th but accidently went into 2nd, engine went NUTS !! nothing happened, all is still A1 !

[chicaboo]

Only problems you will consistently get are:

1. Clunky/resistant shifting with gearbox (2nd & 4th particularly).

2. Dash vibration when accelerating (could be the complex headunit mounting).

3. Vibration somewhere on over-run when decelerating (could be shift cables).

4. Groaning front brakes (when you fix them, the noise comes back in 2 weeks).

5. Cold start hesitation on some cars (mine has this quite bad, think I've fixed it now).

For example I've had none of these problems. Just the clutch adjustment issue which affected about 1/2 the pre facelift Sportivos; and is easily fixed.

These are all very common occurrences, I must be so very lucky to be afflicted with all of them. :o

Oh, I'm very happy to say that my cold start hesitation is gone as of this weekend BTW. :D

Gav.

[whitestivo]

generalisation

the more difficult the more rewarding, you got to finesse.

whitestivo

[sickular.]

The guy that wrote that article is a douche...

Only problems you will consistently get are:

1. Clunky/resistant shifting with gearbox (2nd & 4th particularly).

2. Dash vibration when accelerating (could be the complex headunit mounting).

3. Vibration somewhere on over-run when decelerating (could be shift cables).

4. Groaning front brakes (when you fix them, the noise comes back in 2 weeks).

5. Cold start hesitation on some cars (mine has this quite bad, think I've fixed it now).

I've never seen any issue with panel gaps on cars that haven't had a nudge from another car.

My gearbox has started leaking since ABS at Springwood touched it, before that it was fine. :(

Gav.

Those are pretty bad/annoying problems! And to have all of them!

Well gives me something to look out for anyway.

Hopefully I will own one soon and be able to enjoy all the ups and downs and 'lifts' of Sportivo ownership!

[chicaboo]

The guy that wrote that article is a douche...

Only problems you will consistently get are:

1. Clunky/resistant shifting with gearbox (2nd & 4th particularly).

2. Dash vibration when accelerating (could be the complex headunit mounting).

3. Vibration somewhere on over-run when decelerating (could be shift cables).

4. Groaning front brakes (when you fix them, the noise comes back in 2 weeks).

5. Cold start hesitation on some cars (mine has this quite bad, think I've fixed it now).

I've never seen any issue with panel gaps on cars that haven't had a nudge from another car.

My gearbox has started leaking since ABS at Springwood touched it, before that it was fine. :(

Gav.

Those are pretty bad/annoying problems! And to have all of them!

Well gives me something to look out for anyway.

Hopefully I will own one soon and be able to enjoy all the ups and downs and 'lifts' of Sportivo ownership!

The vibrations aren't that bad, but I'm very picky about such things. You can ignore them with the stereo turned up.

The brakes work perfectly fine, but make that noise, and it gets worse after a good braking session. ;)

My cold start hesitation started when Toyota did my 60k service last year. I then tried 2 different types of CAI to get rid of the problem, but they both made it worse (one quite a bit more than the other). So I reverted back to my stock intake, and when I was putting my IAT sensor back in, it "clicked" back into place, and magically after that my cost start hesitation went away! So now my car is running great, and I'm not going to touch it apart from general servicing.

So I pretty much just have the rattles and groaning brakes. I'm sure the rattles could be removed if I stuffed around with the headunit mounting, tweaking it here and there. But the other rattle is hard to get to and find. Brakes will just have to be noisy I guess?

Mate, if you want to know what a Sportivo is like before buying one, come for a drive in my car for a bit and find out for yourself. Since my car has/had most of the niggles, you can then you can decide if you think it would buy one or not. You might not be as discrimenating about such things as I am though...

Gav.

[whitestivo]

chicaboo, i'm going to rip into you every time i see you now until you put that cai back on

i'm going to do hot laps in and out of lift past your house

whitestivo

[chicaboo]

chicaboo, i'm going to rip into you every time i see you now until you put that cai back on

i'm going to do hot laps in and out of lift past your house

whitestivo

CAI is gone baby! I'm happy, now the car runs while it's cold at least. And no more stuttering trying to go up hills when I leave work, and more power to trundle along in 2nd and 3rd gear in slow traffiqué on the way to work and back. :P

Lift? What's that? I only get to use that on Thursday nights and weekends. :o

Gav.

[whitestivo]

ok, identify yourself, this can't be chicaboo

i smell a rat

whitestivo

[Blind Kid Seeks]

chicaboo, i'm going to rip into you every time i see you now until you put that cai back on

i'm going to do hot laps in and out of lift past your house

whitestivo

CAI is gone baby! I'm happy, now the car runs while it's cold at least. And no more stuttering trying to go up hills when I leave work, and more power to trundle along in 2nd and 3rd gear in slow traffiqué on the way to work and back. :P

Lift? What's that? I only get to use that on Thursday nights and weekends. :o

Gav.

X2 makes me want to keep it...

muwahahaha

[chicaboo]

chicaboo, i'm going to rip into you every time i see you now until you put that cai back on

i'm going to do hot laps in and out of lift past your house

whitestivo

CAI is gone baby! I'm happy, now the car runs while it's cold at least. And no more stuttering trying to go up hills when I leave work, and more power to trundle along in 2nd and 3rd gear in slow traffiqué on the way to work and back. :P

Lift? What's that? I only get to use that on Thursday nights and weekends. :o

Gav.

X2 makes me want to keep it...

muwahahaha

Did you have the same issue as me, and it is gone now too?

[anferne]

I believe the original claim about the Corolla having so many issues is very much exaggerated.

the car is not a lemon.

every car has problems.

this car is above average in terms of reliability and performance.