Ethanol Blended Petrol

[Azza]

Hi Guys...

I know there aresome people already using an Ethanol blend in theior fuels, however, with the controversies surrounding warranties etc, I decided to get something in writing from Toyota in relation to their official stance, and our good friend Jenny was nice enough to email me with this response...

Dear Aaron

We wish to advise that we have received advice that the ZZE122/123 (including Sportivo) is compatible with fuel containing up to 10% ethanol.

Many thanks for your query.

Jenny Stewart

Customer Relations Centre Manager

Customer First Development Division

Toyota Motor Corporation Australia

I also have been sent a brochure/pamphlet which was given to dealers for distribution to customers, advising that and ethanol blend of up to 10% can be used without any impact on warranty.

This document also goes on to list most Toyota vehicles and their compatibility.

I can provide further information from this should people want it...

Just thought I'd share this with everyone...

Cheers

A :)

[SILVABULLIT]

Do I hear another dyno day where everybody runs an ethanol blend fuel not just the "Bellbowrie Bogans"??????

[Azza]

Yeah, then the Bellbowrie Bogans' run the 98+ which is a 98RON with E10 then they add Octane Booster puching them that extra 5RON....

[sportiv]

Dont hate players silva or rednut hate the game. i was running pure premium on the day kyle may have or may not have had some aids in his tank... :P

[Azza]

Dont hate players silva or rednut hate the game. i was running pure premium on the day kyle may have or may not have had some aids in his tank...  :P

←

That's cause Kyle just straight out has AIDS.... hehehe...

Just kidding... the comment G-Money was more about the 98+ being used, not any additives over that.

At this stage, the official word I have recieved from IFS is that they are only selling it on the Gold Coast. When I mentioned the Bellbowrie outlet selling, they advised that it was up to the independant operator....

As to whether we'll see more IFS or other outlets selling 98+ fuels... ;)

[ZEEROLLA]

guys, i still don't see how a higher octane fuel or 10% ethanol will increase outright hp. maybe overall smoothness and cleaniness etc. but hp will not change imo. Don't we need to tune the ECU to the higher octane fuel to get the full benefit eg. by tuning on the dyno and i don't think our stock ECU can do that.

Edited June 20, 2005 by ZEEROLLA

[CHA54]

with higher octane the ECU will detect less knock, so the engine can run more timing high in the rev range which is how more power is made.

When the ECU detects knock, the timing is retarded which reduces power. You can see this clearly when you connect an ODB2 scanner to your diags port and go for a drive monitoring knock and timing advance.

[SILVABULLIT]

with higher octane the ECU will detect less knock, so the engine can run more timing high in the rev range which is how more power is made. 

When the ECU detects knock, the timing is retarded which reduces power.  You can see this clearly when you connect an ODB2 scanner to your diags port and go for a drive monitoring knock and timing advance.

←

What he said :D (beat me to it rollamods!!)

[Azza]

Yeah, what he said too.... :P

I don't know the full technical details of it Zee, I'm just and Government Working Admin Person... :)

But the one main thing I would like to add though is look at the mechanical and modified differences between Kyle's (Sportivo_Rice) car and other Sportivos like Silvabullit's with a CES Exhaust and TRD Intake and look at the Dyno readings. and he used a 98+RON with E10 Blend fuel and he topped the Dyno sheet on the same dyno on the same day with the same operator. The only difference in the use of the dyno was that the day had warmed up a bit from Silvabullits run to Kyle's run, so in theory, this should have affected Kyle's run in a negative manner.

I do know though that there has been a lot of documented evidence based research into the environmental benifits of Ethanol Based fuels, although many manufacturers and mechanical experts were cliaming degradation of the engine components from using this type of fuel.

E10, or an Unleaded Blend of fuel with 10% Ethanol has emerged as the preferred mixture of Ethanol/Fuel whereby environmental benifits can be gained as well as minimal risk or damage to the engine & components.

Last night on Channel 9's 'A Current Affair', there was a report on non-ethanol based fuels and their output vs cost, and the road test was done where 3 identical vehicles were used in a simulation.

All three vehicles were run dry of any fuels existing in the tank, and each given 5 litres of fuel. 1 x 91RON (Regular Unleaded) , 1 x 98RON (Premuim Unleaded) and 1 x 98RON (Hi-Octane Premuim Unleaded).

What was really interesting was that there was a lot of hoo-ha initially about the pros and cons about the 3 different fuels and performance & economy vs cost, so the road test was done, on pure economy related interest.

As mentioned, the 3 different vehicles were driven by 3 drivers at the same time from the same point with the 5 litre of their respective fuels. At small regular intervals, the drivers were rotated to allow for different driving styles.

The 91RON conked out first, with the 98RON stopping about 1 km further along the road and the 95RON going around an extra 1.5 kms...

With this being said, if 98RON was selling at the same price as the 95RON, then the only increase you would see with your vehicle is perhaps some mild performance increase (as Rollamods mentioned) whoever, it was clearly stated that you should not be purchasing the 98RON for econical purposes.

I was amazed that with all the hype around E10, that there was no mention with it, but now with the written advice from Toyota advising that we can use this fuel safely without voidance of the warranty, I am certainly prepared to give it a whirl (for environmental purpases) and co-measure against my current economy to do my own little testing..

You can only try hey....

BTW - Here is a list of other Toyota models that Toyota have advised me about in relation to compatibility with E10..

COROLLA MODELS

OK

AE92 - 4A-FE

AE95 - 4A-FE

AE101 - 4A-FE

AE102 - 7A-FE

AE112 - 7A-FE

ZZE-122 - 1ZZ-FE

ZZE-123 - 2ZZ-GE

NOT GOOD

AE93 - 4A-FE

AE94 - 4A-FE

NON-COROLLA MODELS

OK

ST184 Celica - 5S-FE

ST204 Celica - 5S-FE

ST205 Celica - 3S-GTE

ZZT231 Celica - 2ZZ-GE

SW20 MR2 - 3S-GE

ZZW30 MR2 - 1ZZ-FE

NCP10 Echo - 2NZ-FE

NCP12 Echo - 1NZ-FE

NCP13 Echo - 1NZ-FE

NOT GOOD

MA70 Supra - 7M-GTE

MX83 Cressida - 5M-GE

Cheers

A :)

Edited June 20, 2005 by Azza

[MR22ZZ]

All three vehicles were run dry of any fuels existing in the tank, and each given 5 litres of fuel. 1 x 91RON (Regular Unleaded) , 1 x 98RON (Premuim Unleaded) and 1 x 98RON (Hi-Octane Premuim Unleaded).

←

don't you mean 95RON (Premium Unleaded)

You will also find that 98RON is ~4c/l more expensive then 95RON. The test performed was not that controlled but the RACV is performing a more extensive test on a number of claims of hi-RON fuel such as increased mileage and reduced wear.

You will also find the 98RON was 3km down the road from the 91RON with the 95RON 1km further then the 98RON. I'll still wait for the RACV test before my final judgement, I often find fault in the ACA and Today Tonight testing methods.

What was also interesting what that on Mythbusters last night they also tested a comparison of driving with the A/C on and with the window down... What was found was that when monitoring Air/Fuel ratio to compare air in too fuel used then the windows down used more fuel. However, when they tested just driving the cars with 5 gallons (it's an American show) of fuel the one with the A/C stopped 30 miles earlier then the one with the windows open.

This test was more controlled then the ACA one as they used a speedway circuit to drive on where they could run at a constant 35 miles per hour, where as the ACA one they used a set course of corners and hills etc which would differ according to driving stile (even though they changed drivers between the cars the time spent in each would have varied as when you do the sums, the driver finishes in the car with considerably less time behind that wheel, as they only swapped twice)

Edited June 21, 2005 by Blue_Stivo

[sportiv]

azzious,,

Kyle has extractor wactors aswell .. but maybe you didnt know that.. :P

[Azza]

don't you mean 95RON (Premium Unleaded)

←

yes - my bad :(

I find though that although there may be some faults with the tests conducted by ACA/Today Tonight etc, they tend to be no more/less biased though than test conducted by RAVC/RACQ/NRMA etc. Infact, I believe that testing done by these bodies are usually biased towards particular makes of vehicles which could actually affect the final result of the test.

I think the only true and accurate method of testing is our own day-to-day driving.

I know how I normally drive to and from work for the week, so the best test would be to do this each week alternating the fuels and doing a self comparison of the results.

As for the price, well I have given up.

I study petrol pricing a while ago, recording every service station price of the advertised price for Regular Unleaded Fuel along my trip up and down Gympie Road (Brisbane) each weekday for 6 weeks.

The theory of higher prices inbound/outbound or morning/night is all a crock.

I found that particular service stations where there was increased comptetition usually offered the best savings.

Here are some of the observations I made:

(Sorry, Brisbane people may know these locations...)

BP Aspley I found to be the most consistant price as there is a Shell and a Mobile within 2 km of this site.

Caltex/Woolworths C****ldine (Outbound) never cared about local competition. They are the last outbound site heading to the main highway north. I think their theory is, if you need fuel, get it now at whatever we charge because the next fuel is BP Burpengary (15 minutes)

Shell Aspley was usually always the highest at ALL times in the outer suburbs.

BP Herston appeared to always be at the upper end of the spectrum. The fact that this is possibley one of the busiest BP sites for Government Fleet cars as it is parked right across the road from the Royal Brisbane Hospital and govvie cars are driving past there at a massive rate.

Whatever BP Kedron's normal price was, you could guarentee that the independant site 2km's further inbound had this price as their advertised 'discounted' price with a fuel docket.

DISCLAIMER - Please remember, that these were my observations of the sites in my tip to and from work each day. Please do not use these results as a guide as to where you should or shouldn't buy fuel from. Please do your own analysis!!!

Cheers

A :)

[Azza]

azzious,,

Kyle has extractor wactors aswell .. but maybe you didnt know that..  :P

←

Unaware of this fact my good g-man, as Kyle is usually too busy talking gangsta speak and you can't understand what he says sometimes :P

f**ken s*it bro ma *ucke*mutha man....

[sportiv]

yeah he got them put in with the CES exhaust they were my old ones. :D

[ghost]

So which ethanol company do you have shares in?

[MR22ZZ]

Ethanol is cheap in Queensland as it's a byproduct from the refining of sugar.

[Azza]

So which ethanol company do you have shares in?

←

None, Nat... I am just merely posting information for the assistance of my Bretheren...

Ethanol is cheap in Queensland as it's a byproduct from the refining of sugar.

←

There is a big push from the Qld Government to get E10 fuels out there as it helps with Qld's ailing Sugar industry....

Ironic how pouring straight sugar in the fuel tank with f**k it up, but blending it with petrol first seems OK... ;)

[kick_ass]

Hate to bump such an old thread ...

I found somewhere recently where they are selling a 98/10% fuel at 3cents LESS than ULP! I asked The dealer at my last service for an answer and didn't get one.

I have not had time to follow up, but decided to put $25 worth in and see how it went!

Well, an 11c a liter saving at the pump, and I Got around 5% Better fuel economy. I paid 108.9 earlier this week. When I first saw it, the ULP price was 111.9, but when I decided to give it a go, the ULP was up to 117.9 - gotta love it!

The only downer is there is only 1 supplier that I have found in Adelade and it is a 25km drive each way from home. I will certainly be filling up whenever I am close now I know it is all ok!

And for the record, it is the United Service Station at Salisbury.

[Azza]

Hate to bump such an old thread ...

I found somewhere recently where they are selling a 98/10% fuel at 3cents LESS than ULP! I asked The dealer at my last service for an answer and didn't get one.

I have not had time to follow up, but decided to put $25 worth in and see how it went!

Well, an 11c a liter saving at the pump, and I Got around 5% Better fuel economy.  I paid 108.9 earlier this week.  When I first saw it, the ULP price was 111.9, but when I decided to give it a go, the ULP was up to 117.9 - gotta love it!

The only downer is there is only 1 supplier that I have found in Adelade and it is a 25km drive each way from home.  I will certainly be filling up whenever I am close now I know it is all ok!

And for the record, it is the United Service Station at Salisbury.

←

A Couple of the Brisbane fellas (Sportiv & Sportivo_Rice) have been using a 98+/10% blend and have said it is alright.

Just let Greg tell you about his Dyno results ;)...

[SILVABULLIT]

Just let Greg tell you about his Dyno results ;)...

Yeah the dyno results.... anybody care to listen to the story... AGAIN!!! :P :P LOL

[sportiv]

its a good tale,,,

just listen to azza bull**** about his fake resuts.... with ces and cai i can vouch for my efforts come saturday next week :D

[SILVABULLIT]

Azza's lost power since the removal of the huge sticker on the back window

[Azza]

Yeah but I gained it back with my kick-a55 new look rear end...

And those should pads for the seat belts from Northy...being that color-match the rest of the car, I picked up at least 4kw from them :P

[Buddha]

All three vehicles were run dry of any fuels existing in the tank, and each given 5 litres of fuel. 1 x 91RON (Regular Unleaded) , 1 x 98RON (Premuim Unleaded) and 1 x 98RON (Hi-Octane Premuim Unleaded).

←

What was also interesting what that on Mythbusters last night they also tested a comparison of driving with the A/C on and with the window down... What was found was that when monitoring Air/Fuel ratio to compare air in too fuel used then the windows down used more fuel. However, when they tested just driving the cars with 5 gallons (it's an American show) of fuel the one with the A/C stopped 30 miles earlier then the one with the windows open.

This test was more controlled then the ACA one as they used a speedway circuit to drive on where they could run at a constant 35 miles per hour, where as the ACA one they used a set course of corners and hills etc which would differ according to driving stile (even though they changed drivers between the cars the time spent in each would have varied as when you do the sums, the driver finishes in the car with considerably less time behind that wheel, as they only swapped twice)

←

My only concern with the Mythbusters exercise was that it was done at quite a slow speed (35mph = 56kmh) ... I was always told that up to about 60 or 70kmh, generally, you'd use less fuel having the windows open, but then as speeds rise (80 or more kph) and therefore wind resistance is greater, you'll use less fuel with the a/c on.