[VIC] Cruises

[Blind Kid Seeks]

Hi everyone.

i Just wanted to say something in regard to the nature of our cruises here in Melbourne, and if anyone here thinks that i am talking out of turn please let me know.

So far from the last 5 out of 6 cruises I have had a hand in organising there has been some form of incident involving a forum member losing control of their car.

The last weekends cruise was no exception. Without naming anyone publicly to avoid causing any grief or humiliation, i want to make it very clear about my expectations as a moderator or cruise organiser.

Firstly i understand that inexperience can have a lot to do with driver error, and not knowing the cars limits, but more importantly your own.

People who have not had cruise experience, or have little experience on the road in general, such as P Platers or any member who is not familiar with their car, need to curb their enthusiasm.

I always chose cruise routes that have speed limits, but more importantly, speed limits that are nearly impossible to break. This gives us all a chance to drive our cars around bends quickly and enjoy some true fast paced cornering without feeling the least bit apprehensive about the police, or breaking the law.

This however does not mean that you HAVE to keep up with the person in front of you. I state very clearly at the beginning of each cruise that if you are looking for a more sedate experience, please take yourself to the back of the pack. If you are not confident, or if you are unsure of your car for any reason, take yourself to the back of the pack.

I am not trying to be the big bad ogre, or the voice of reason... all i am asking is to please take into consideration your abilities and your cars capabilities. The last thing we want on any of our social meets and cruises is to have to be ringing someones parents or the ambulance. Least of all... we spend all our hard earned monies on these cars, our pride and joy, and its heartbreaking to see them all bent up being loaded onto a flat bed truck.

I hope i haven't offended anyone, but i feel that as a group we need to talk about ways in which we can better organise cruises, or drives, so that we don't have to see anyone hurt, or have their car damaged.

i really want us to all take responsibility for our own actions, but if you have any ideas about how we could better structure these days i would really like to hear it.

[dorifto]

100% whole heartedly agree with what Andy has said.

I've organised a few twincam meets without incident with predominantly most, if not all based on inner-suburbia cruises. I've always stated and asked that all in attendance to please adhere to the speed limits and not to do anything irrational, we don't want trouble with the police or give the club a bad name. So far, so good.

Andy dropped by my workplace on Sunday to inform me of the incident and I can tell you now, he looked absolutely smashed/shattered/dissapointed. It is one of the sole reasons why I don't organise any (more) mountain runs as it's too dangerous/unpredictable with what others can/will do. I am not stating that the majority are wreckless but there are a select few who take it to the extremes. If you think back to the Great Ocean Road (GOR) cruise recently gone by; I read something along the lines of 'keeping up' and 'overtaking', I commented on the nature of the road and to take caution at all times but was refuted that it was all jokes and games. Another thing, the recording of the runs. For the most of it, yes no/little laws are broken until you decide to make a 'better' video by displaying your cornering 'capabilities'. What this has recently resulted in, is clear; a member of the public has had his/her car damaged by one our members.

It is why I have always stated that if you have something to prove; take it to to the circuit and let rip. It will come at a cost but it'll be something you can proud off after divesting so much effort, money and pride into your car. I might be out of line but it has to be said; For the entirety of it, we are a great bunch of people and do not want/need unecessary acts to have fun. Take your time, go at your pace and who cares if your car is quicker/slower than others.

Thats my $2.02 cents

[Tash]

I would agree too Andy - I am guessing this last incident happened on the second half of the cruise after I left, which is a shame because it was a brilliant day and really well done.

I suppose from my point of view whilst the expectation has always been clear in terms of behaviour and driving ability we still promote to a degree a "fast" and a "slow" pack - I'm not sure if maybe that is giving some people the wrong impression in terms of what that actually means and that perhaps we need to highlight that a bit better. From my own point of view I always try to place myself mid-pack so as to give myself some space to drive at my own pace/ability, and also because the middle/tail is the most likely to get fragmented as the front cars keep a quicker pace so I figure other members will be able to see the gold car and stick with the group.

Must admit that I was over-jealous in my overtaking on Sunday and if I had my time over I probably wouldn't do it again, though I didn't cross double lines to start the pass. I want to give Johnnie some credit there too cos there was a lot of pressure from the back for him to go around that Territory as well and he wasn't going to put himself in a situation where there was unnecessary risk. I like a spirited drive as much as the next person but I know my car inside-out including its limitations and handling, so I drive accordingly. I know some members have commented that I am pretty gutsy/bold with some things but I know my car and what it can do and don't push it beyond that. Unfortunately there are others that do, and I don't know that we'll ever eradicate that without slowing down the group overall.

Perhaps our next couple of meet-ups should be simple meet & greet/short drive to a photo op or lunch and just tone it down for a little bit, get to know each other better and then head back to Noojee (cos it was an excellent pub) in the New Year?

[dyslexik]

+100,000,000.

In addition to everything that had been said previously:

If you find yourselves braking unecessarily on every bend and turn, please drop back in the pack and let others pass safely. Do not try and outrun the person overtaking you when the road signs allows them to do so. This is what I had experienced last Sunday.

Thank God for Lift, upgraded rotors+pads and refined braking skills! Ain't that right James?

I just hope the people/members involved in the accident are ok. The best lesson's in life, are the lessons learnt before experiencing them yourself.

Be a Man and DO the Right Thing!

[thegourou20]

Well I have not had much experience with cruises myself (only 2 so far) but I must admit that indeed there are people sometime making very risky moves just to keep up. I was following someone at one stage and saw him overtake so close to a corner that I was telling my gf I just hope noone is coming in the other direction so that he does not get hurt. Really the road itself has lots of corners but really it is not worth it. If you are stuck behind someone from the public well it is bad luck there is no need to put other ppl's life and your life at stake.

Also, I am not sure who was following me at one stage but there were 3 cars (Matt, Lee & someone else) caught up to me and which I gave way straight away because I know as a competitive driver I would try to push my car or even myself to my limits. So, I purposely gave way so that I don't feel the need to go faster.

I believe may be a safer way of doing this might be to have a list (set by the organiser) who is going in what order based on a mixture of driver's experience, car mods and own ppl's choice. When we left from the car park, it ended up by everyone leaving in a rush and in no particular order.

On a side note, I had great fun at the cruise and looking forward to the next one. I was really happy having caught up with everyone after such a long time.

[eviltwin]

Its all well and good to say it here but i can see it happening again based on comments like "Thank god for lift" and "Having braking skills" as that is going to enforce bad ideas into others heads and it really is no good. Ordering a pack will make it a million times worse you will have the guys at the back knowing they are "slower" than the guys in front who are "Faster" and this will make people compete and fight for positions which is silly. It's not hard to work out your limits it's very easy to find yourself following the guy in front and realising theres a reason he is ahead and that may be because of experience or because of the difference in the two vehicles your driving but the most important thing here is to identify when it's getting out of control and slow it up.

If you want to go out and really get on your limits do it alone or even better on a race track as Trung has said. Nobody take any offense to my comments they are not personal they are merely an example and im not out to post hatred or anything like that just a view as asked by the topic creator. The most enjoyable part of the cruise on sunday for me was that i was happy driving in such a beautiful area on a perfect day with a heap of other guys sharing a genuine hobby. Had a few small spirited moments but only when i was 100% comfortable and could see there was nothing ahead of me or behind me and so on. Great group of people that would not look to be offended by slowing things up for safteys sake.

The best but of a club like TOCAU is when i think of my membership here i dont think of hooning around drag racing and acting like a tool i more so think of a heap of cool people that are all interested in Toyotas in different shapes and forms with a high level of maturity.

Sometimes staying back and taking it easy is much more commendable than getting through the bends first or behind the guy in front!

[dwee.]

I agree 100% with Andy and Trung with what they have said. Also like gourou said, I have seen plenty of times people overtaking in high risk areas or when they shouldn't be in the last few cruises and meets. Last Sunday was no exception. Saw the same guy (gourou was talking about) and another person overtaking right before a corner and was thinking "why the f are you overtaking there?" but at the same time hoping that they will safely make it..

Also, I am not sure who was following me at one stage but there were 3 cars (Matt, Lee & someone else) caught up to me and which I gave way straight away because I know as a competitive driver I would try to push my car or even myself to my limits. So, I purposely gave way so that I don't feel the need to go faster.

That other person would've been me gourou and props to you mate; that is what people should be doing. If you noticed, I was never closer than 5 car lengths when I was behind you. I hate tailgaters and pressure from 'faster' drivers behind and this is why I do so. If someone was up my a**, I would pull over as well - it's simply not worth risking your life and others. If you want to go 100% and prove you're faster, go to the track like others have said. Simple as that!.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't say I'm experienced, but people should know their limits and if they don't, drive accordingly.

Peter.

[Blind Kid Seeks]

thanks for all your comments here guys.

I just dont want this thread to turn into a **** fight for people calling each other reckless or whatever.

Like i said, i always choose routes that enable you to drive as fast as you want, without breaking the speed limits.

I guess the purpose of this is for people to wake up and drive withing their limits. We have no place for reckless or careless driving. I just want everyone to enjoy the drive... sound fair?

[eviltwin]

All fair and just my friend Kisses , hugs and farad capacitors for all xoxoxo buzz buzz xoxoxo

[SportivoPSI]

Thank God for Lift, upgraded rotors+pads and refined braking skills! Ain't that right James?

Right on brother!!! Need to get me some of those rotors and pads ;)

Well said by everyone! I also think that this is a topic that needs to be deeply respected.

I've been on a few different types of cruises (night and day) and the last thing you want to see is your

pride and joy all bent or on a more serious note, a mate thats seriously injured.

I know my cars limits as matt found out and im not going to put anyone else or myself in danger if i

feel my car isn't functioning properly.

I look forward to the next cruise, and like last weekend, the good weather is coming :D

Stay safe everyone!

[maca_10]

As Tash said, this incident must have happened at the end of the cruise.

Also a commendable effort to whoever it was staying behind the Territory until they knew it was safe to pass. With all the pressure from people beeping their horns it was sensible as there were many blind corners. (thats not me being sarcastic, its the truth)

Having a 1st and 2nd group with the different driving styles is a good idea like on Sunday.

Other than that i'm not really too sure what to say as i didn't see the incident.

Thanks for organising the cruise Andy and looking forward to the next one.

Edited September 29, 2010 by kewl10_mac

[johnnieboi]

Ok. I know my car isnt well equipped to drive/brake/follow aggressively. This i found out on track day when i went with kenshinx. I push my car only to what im comfortable with and even in the past have had some very close calls that has added to my experience on the road today. Then i think was that worth it? Probli not.

I know there was pressure from other guys behind me for me to pass the territory but there simply wasnt a feasible opening of straight road for me to do it in, and i wasnt going to cross double lines or around corners to pass him/her, which would of also brought the club a bad name. I do feel like we all feel the 'need' to follow and keep up to the guy/girl in front, that applies to everyone but the best advice i've ever heard is knowing when to stop, thats where things stay fun and safe.

Eg. On track, i only went around 4 times in one session at mid pace, and even that felt good leaving the track.

At the end of the day, i would cry if something happened to my car, to make it worse hitting another members car or the publics car.

This is a learning curve for all, not a rant or targeting individuals. This is a place for all of us to discuss and share our ideas to help make this club a prominent/respected one in society.

[78_7kRolla]

I think it's great that Andy has brought this to everyones attention.

I for one am guilty of constantly wanting more (i'm sure many of you are the same) whether I am on a cruise, track, gokart or even Gran Turismo. A key message to take away from this is like previously mentioned, 'curb your enthusiasm' and for me it is to keep our heads pulled in. Numerous times people on the cruise pulled over to let those wanting more, past them or when they weren't comfortable with their vehicle or otherwise. I'd like to commend these people and they have put plenty into perspective for me and hopefully many others.

I look forward to the upcoming gokart day where we can all drive to and even beyond our limits within reasonable safety. Without the risk of scratching our paint or others.

Take care :)

Matt.

[TroysRollaSX]

Good to see so many level headed people, as well as those who are man enough to admit they are not always angels. Makes me even more keen to go on the next cruise, as I don't get the impression that people will pour scorn on me if I'm not driving on the limit the whole time.